ISO-Woodson being discussed now on ESPN radio

[gsuteke]

The Knicks are being discussed now on ESPN radio and quote "the Knicks offense, if you can even call it an offense, seems to be give the ball to Carmelo or JR Smith and let them dribble the clock down to get a bad shot at the end of it."Good times and great memories right? That made me smile when I remembered the retarded thread about Woodson being the good coach we let go that was on the board a week or so ago.

[buckeye242424]

The Knicks are being discussed now on ESPN radio and quote "the Knicks offense, if you can even call it an offense, seems to be give the ball to Carmelo or JR Smith and let them dribble the clock down to get a bad shot at the end of it."Good times and great memories right? That made me smile when I remembered the retarded thread about Woodson being the good coach we let go that was on the board a week or so ago.

Yeah. I heard it. Mike and Mike are ripping Woodson. One because Carmelo is 18-59 the last two games, and he has 6 assists. Not yesterday....the entire series!! 6 assists in 5 games!! Dude has the ball in his hands 80% of the time. Unreal.

Plus the whole Knicks wearing black suits to the game because they're attending Boston's funeral. Stupid. The Knicks might end up winning the series because they have better talent, but it's the first round. I don't miss Woody and his iso offense.

[frosgrim]

Yup, Woody is no goody.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

That was the part of Mike Woodson that I hated the most... He invented ISO-Joe and made Josh into what he is today - a stretch 4 who really isn't a stretch 4. Good coaches make game plans around their players, but with Woodson, he expects his players to play to his way and adjust. I was a Woodson supporter because felt he was better than Stotts, but there are definitely better coaches out there.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AHF]

Josh made Josh. Woody told Josh to not shoot 3s and had one year where Josh only shot 7 3s all year. Then Woody leaves and Josh goes back to jacking. That one glorious year was Josh's highest Win Shares, Wins Produced, and 2nd highest PER ever.

Fun fact: in 11 playoff games that season, Josh had 6 threes. That was one less than he shot in 81 regular season games. This fact is actually not fun, it is frustrating as hell.

I think you can criticize Woodson for not stopping Josh earlier in his career, but not blame him for intentionally making Josh into a "stretch 4." That is totally fair. We all remember Woodson defending Josh's right to shoot 3's while criticizing him for continuing to shoot them after a streak of bad ones:

“Josh is five years in the league now, man,” Woodson said after Smith’s

5-for-19 shooting effort in the loss to the Rockets. “And it comes down

to time, score and situation. That’s the bottom line. We’re not telling

him he can’t shoot 3-pointers but if you miss four or five jump shots,

something has to go off in his head that says, ‘I have to do something

else.’ “

I think it is 100% fair to say that Woodson should have taken a clearer harder line but to say that he wanted Josh shooting the long jumpers isn't accurate, IMO. He just tried to get Josh to stop using kid gloves and never demanded it of him.

Remember that for all Woodson's success cutting Josh down to 7 3pa's, Woodson was still the coach when Josh shot a then career high 154 3's the next season without any repercussions.

Drew then took a bad situation and made it worse with Josh's J (which isn't remotely surprising since he was an assistant coach on a staff that was way too permissive of Josh's bad shooting).

[AHF]

No. That next year was Larry Drew at the helm. Josh has had 3 of his 4 highest 3PA/game with Drew at the helm. Josh only shot 23 his first season with Woody.

I would venture to guess that it was some of the "vets" that BK brought in who got Josh hooked on 3s. Specifically, Antoine and Al. Antoine shot 5 threes a game! And to believe BK brought him in because of "veteran leadership" or whatever.

You are right. That is my mistake on the 154 attempt season.

I still contend Woodson never put his foot down on Josh during his formative years. I do credit him for getting Josh to have that one glorious regular season of restraint and more harshly condemn Drew for his freedom on Josh's shot selection.

[AHF]

Relatively, Woody put his foot down a lot more than LD ever has. But at this point, I don't think it is a coaching issue. You can lead a horse to the water, but if all he wants to do is ignore you and jack threes all day then realize that horse is a jackass and there isn't a horse-whisperer who can help out.

Woody was never an offensive Xs and Os type of guy, but for just about everything else he was superior to LD. That is not saying much, because Woody is not that great overall.

Woody was superior to Drew with Josh (hard to see many people doing worse), but I still like Drew's approach better for the playoffs because opponents don't already know what we are doing before we show up and can't plan to exploit the same key items without having to make adjustments.

It isn't a coincidence that Woodson led the worst sweep in NBA history. That happened because the team had their approach and wasn't going to modify it for anything (double Dwight, get killed by 3) whereas it contrasts nicely to Drew's adjustments against Orlando (play Dwight straight up with Collins and avoid giving up open 3's). In fact, it constrasts nicely to this series where Atlanta only enjoyed some success after inserting a true center into the lineup. Woody would have kept starting Al/Josh at C/PF for the entire series.

Hell, it isn't much of a contrast. We can do better than either of them.

[NineOhTheRino]

Knicks play a very dumb brand of basketball. Unbelievable how many 1-pass possessions they have per game,

[Sothron]

Repeat after me;

WOODY NO GOODY

[capstone21]

The Knicks are being discussed now on ESPN radio and quote "the Knicks offense, if you can even call it an offense, seems to be give the ball to Carmelo or JR Smith and let them dribble the clock down to get a bad shot at the end of it."Good times and great memories right? That made me smile when I remembered the retarded thread about Woodson being the good coach we let go that was on the board a week or so ago.

C'mon .... 'The Sh!t works'

I guess it is a little more successful with the Knicks when you have Melo dribbling the time away and taking a shot instead of Ty Lue.

[AHF]

C'mon .... 'The Sh!t works'

I guess it is a little more successful with the Knicks when you have Melo dribbling the time away and taking a shot instead of Ty Lue.

Let's see how it plays out. The Knicks are the #2 seed in the East and haven't made it to the second round just yet.

[MaceCase]

First, over the course of the regular season the Knicks went to isolation plays 15.5 percent of the time, and in those plays, they scored an average of 0.870 points per possession. In the playoffs, they’ve gone to isolation plays a whopping 26.6 percent of the time. To put that into perspective, Houston is the only other team in the playoffs over 20 percent, and they’re at only 20.1 percent. What’s worse is that the Knicks have been horrible on isolation plays. That 0.870 points per possession in the regular season is down to 0.707 points in the playoffs, dead last in the league.

Second, the prime culprit here is Anthony. He did do a large part of his scoring in isolation plays this season, with 26.3 percent of his possessions coming in those situations. But that represented a serious drop-off in his reliance on isolation—last year, he used it 34.3 percent of the time, and it was 36.9 percent the previous year. He was among the best in the league at turning those plays into points, too, scoring 0.915 points per possession on isolations, but one of the big reasons Anthony drew praise this year was the way he helped the Knicks become a better ball-movement team. Cutting his isolations down was a big reason for that.

It’s been a different story in the postseason, though. Anthony has reverted to his bad habits, with the ball sticking to his hands, turning the Knicks’ offense into the same kind of Anthony-dominated mess that used to drive George Karl nutty in Denver. That 26.3 percent of possessions coming in isolation? It’s up to 44.7 percent in the playoffs, and his scoring has dropped to .724 points per possession.

Anthony’s isolation plays are up 18.4 percent, while his scoring efficiency in those situations has plummeted. He has had two games in which more than 50 percent of his possessions came on isos, and the Knicks scored 85 and 86 points in those games. In the two shooting nights pictured below, Game 4 (top) and Game 5 (bottom), Anthony was a combined 18-for-59 from the field while using mostly isolations....

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2013-05-02/carmelo-anthony-stats-knicks-celtics-kevin-garnett-twitter-jordan-crawford

This article has some pretty damning stats but it seems more focused on Anthony being the main culprit rather than Woody.

[capstone21]

Let's see how it plays out. The Knicks are the #2 seed in the East and haven't made it to the second round just yet.

I was being sarcastic...I think Woody was a terrible coach