Since nobody else has done this... LD vs SVG

[Diesel]

A lot of people are gung ho on the SVG bandwagon.. and it's alright if we end up with D12. BUt the question is...

Is SVG a better coach than LD??

Head to head, LD outcoached him in their playoff series.

LD has done more with nothing than SVG has done with it.

LD has only been a coach for 2 years.

So

Who cares to start?

[DrReality]

Can't measure it but VanGun's ability to create and demand respect exceeds LD. Major difference

[ag82]

He's been to the NBA finals, which this franchise has never done. He took Miami to game 7 of the ECF the next year, which this franchise has also never done. Coached 2 all star games.

How has LD done more with less? He has done less with less and even that is arguable.

After going to LA, Dwight admitted that he was wrong about SVG and even alongside teammates far superior than any he ever had in Orlando with SVG, his team squeaked into the playoffs and was bounced easily in the first round.

LD inherited a playoff team and has a worse career Win%. It's not even really debatable.

Edited May 13, 2013 by ag82

[swolehawk2]

He's been to the NBA finals, which this franchise has never done. He took Miami to game 7 of the ECF the next year, which this franchise has also never done. Coached 2 all star games. How has LD done more with less? He has done less with less and even that is arguable. After going to LA, Dwight admitted that he was wrong about SVG and even alongside teammates far superior than any he ever had in Orlando with SVG, his team squeaked into the playoffs and was bounced easily in the first round. LD inherited a playoff team and has a worse career Win%. It's not even really debatable.

^ This.

[NBASupes]

SVG is generally a better coach. LD is a good coach but SVG was just better overall. Always had his teams playing sound Basketball. From Miami to Orlando. They all played sound Basketball especially defense. His overall coaching improved greatly in Orlando. I see him as a top 5 HC in the NBA. I liked Woodson too. I felt Woodson was a very good coach who lacked making adjustments which is key in the playoffs. LD isn't a motivator is more so better as an assistant than a HC. With that said, he has been one of the better coaching we have had in Atlanta and we have had quite a few.

SVG strengths: Coaching defense, Keeping his team level headed on the court, motivating, making minor adjustments, rotations, understanding how to use his players to the max of the their ability to fit his system.

Weaknesses: Playcalling, Panicking, Out of bound plays, changing up his system which got him in some trouble in Miami.

He likes ball screens, pick and rolls, pick and pops, off the ball screens, Hi-low post plays, and he believe his players should be able to make entry passes to the bigs. He is really a guy who likes mixing inside out and giving the PG a chance to run the team and everyone following suit.

Overall, SVG had a template like Woddy had a template. Drew was more like Eddie Jordan. He changes it up a lot. It's okay to make an adjustment but you have to give your guys a chance.

[Diesel]

He's been to the NBA finals, which this franchise has never done. He took Miami to game 7 of the ECF the next year, which this franchise has also never done. Coached 2 all star games.

How has LD done more with less? He has done less with less and even that is arguable.

After going to LA, Dwight admitted that he was wrong about SVG and even alongside teammates far superior than any he ever had in Orlando with SVG, his team squeaked into the playoffs and was bounced easily in the first round.

LD inherited a playoff team and has a worse career Win%. It's not even really debatable.

What has SVG done without Dwight or Shaq?

The only season we have is when he didn't have Shaq and he had Wade, Jones, Odom, and Butler and they went 42-40 and lost to the Pacers in the 2nd round.

LD has not coached anyone as phenomenal as Dwight.

Yet in his three years here he has a 55.7% winning percentage.That includes years with major injuries.

[EazyRoc]

What has SVG done without Dwight or Shaq? The only season we have is when he didn't have Shaq and he had Wade, Jones, Odom, and Butler and they went 42-40 and lost to the Pacers in the 2nd round. LD has not coached anyone as phenomenal as Dwight.Yet in his three years here he has a 55.7% winning percentage.That includes years with major injuries.

Larry Drew had a better team the year we beat Orlando. I think that's clear.

[LamarHampton]

... And name recognition/more proven system to get us better players

[NBASupes]

What has SVG done without Dwight or Shaq?

The only season we have is when he didn't have Shaq and he had Wade, Jones, Odom, and Butler and they went 42-40 and lost to the Pacers in the 2nd round.

LD has not coached anyone as phenomenal as Dwight.

Yet in his three years here he has a 55.7% winning percentage.That includes years with major injuries.

That team wasn't expected to be a playoff team. They were young with no truly desirable players at that time. Wade really had flashed during the 2nd half of the year. Lamar was highly inconsistent. Caron was a decent player at the time he was what Tobias Harris is today and their other players wasn't good.

Sometimes you have to watch how he coaches his teams. I personally think these Hawks have talent. I think Josh Smith and Al Horford are underrated, primarily Al Horford. One of the best NBA players. Atlanta expectations have always been underrated by pundits but Miami in Wade's first season was not a good team. That Hornets team had a legit All Star talent and some quality players around Baron Davis. Wade's improvement is a testament to SVG and Dwayne Wade. Not all talents develop that fast. Look at John Wall for example who had more talent coming out of college than Wade and he was younger.

[NBASupes]

Larry Drew had a better team the year we beat Orlando. I think that's clear.

He had much better talent. Orlando was a better team. The thing was Collins was in shape. We used our perimeter defensive length and athletic ability to close out on shooters and forced Dwight to beat us by himself and while he got close we had enough talent to overcome. The biggest thing that season's Orlando team lack was a shot creator on the perimeter which was VC the year before who was traded.

LD's adjustments helped us win games but Jason Collins being in shape was huge. Al was getting manhandled as force us to double as did Etan Thomas. Collins only redeeming quality is his low post defense and it came to help us as well. We had a lot of shot creators that year as well and match-ups we clearly won like Josh Smith v. Turk, Horford v. Bass, Jamal v. whoever and Joe Johnson v. whoever. We negated the fact that we couldn't finish much in the paint when Dwight was in the game. Also it helped Gortat wasn't there anymore. He would come in and would be like Asik was for Chicago. He wouldn't miss a beat to doing with Dwight would do on defense for Orlando. We couldn't match that. He ending up leaving Orlando. The dead of Orlando is similar to the dead of Los Angeles. It was all bad contracts and guys who could no longer perform near their level in the NBA.

[Diesel]

That's funny that we have all this revisionist history about how we were so much better than Orlando and how we were supposed to beat them.

The Experts (to a man) said that there was no way we should win.

[Diesel]

That's funny that we have all this revisionist history about how we were so much better than Orlando and how we were supposed to beat them.

The Experts (to a man) said that there was no way we should win.

Even the squawk questioned the Hawks ability to put up a fight.

[Diesel]

Even the squawk questioned the Hawks ability to put up a fight.

Had to talk some sense in them by game 2.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Diesel

[Cwell]

The only season we have is when he didn't have Shaq and he had Wade, Jones, Odom, and Butler and they went 42-40 and lost to the Pacers in the 2nd round.

that was actually pretty damn good considering Wade was a rookie playing PG, Eddie Jones was already getting up there in age, Caron Butler was in his 2nd year in a major sophomore slump, and Lamar Odom was starting at the 4. Center was Brian Grant. They had NOBODY on their bench besides Skip to My Lou

[EazyRoc]

That's funny that we have all this revisionist history about how we were so much better than Orlando and how we were supposed to beat them. The Experts (to a man) said that there was no way we should win.

I think that was based on how we were humiliated by a much better Orlando team the year before.

[coachx]

Can't measure it but VanGun's ability to create and demand respect exceeds LD. Major difference

This.

Sure his teams were great defensively. Of course at that time Howard was easily the best defensive player in the NBA by a wide margin. He controlled the paint like no one else of his era (prior to the bad back). Its hard for me to give all the credit to the coach when he was handed the best definsive anchor of the decade by a wide margin.

He has a very talented roster in Miami too. I mean when your centers are Shaq and Alonzo it not hard to coach. Alonzo could not play 35 mpg any more with his kidney ailment but he was still a dominant defender had spelled Shaq effectively. Wade was super human back then.

He had the good fortune of coaching some great talent.

His value, to me is getting the respect of his players and being able to discipline them. It wore off in the end with Howard but in my opinion a lot of that came from Howard's injury and the distractions of wanting a new contract in larger market to capitalize on the $$$ and fame. Lebron James "checked out" in his last year on Cleveland as well.

Maybe Howard has come back down to earth now ? Maybe not ?

Edited May 13, 2013 by coachx

[Guest]

All I know is having SVG instantly gives the Hawks credibility around the league, in the media and possibly free agents.It's about changing the CULTURE of the Hawks as a whole.

[KB21]

That's funny that we have all this revisionist history about how we were so much better than Orlando and how we were supposed to beat them.

The Experts (to a man) said that there was no way we should win.

The only revisionist history in this thread is this idea that Larry Drew outcoached Stan Van Gundy in the 2011 playoffs. Larry Drew didn't do anything spectacular to outcoach Stan Van Gundy, and if the Magic could have hit their jump shots, they would have blown the Hawks away just like in the previous year.

Let's take a look at the eFG% of the players that played major minutes around Dwight in that series:

Jameer Nelson 41.5 eFG%

Jason Richardson 41.2 eFG%

Hedo Turkoglu 34.6 eFG%

Brandon Bass 42.1 eFG%

Ryan Anderson 36.7 eFG%

JJ Redick 36.9% eFG%

Go back and watch that series. The Magic weren't taking a lot of tough shots or long twos. They were getting wide open looks, and they simply were not hitting them.

Larry's brilliant defensive scheme against Dwight held him to a 63.3% eFG% and an average of around 28 points per game.

[KB21]

When I think back to that series against the Magic, I just keep remembering game 5.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201104260ORL.html

That was where I knew this team could never actually concentrate. Whether it is a team issue or an LD issue, that was a flashback to the previous year.

Oh and that series the Magic outscored us by 11. Pretty sure they were the better team and we just got some stroke of randomness.

/ends thread

Pretty much, had Orlando made their shots, they would have blown the Hawks out.

[Diesel]

that was actually pretty damn good considering Wade was a rookie playing PG, Eddie Jones was already getting up there in age, Caron Butler was in his 2nd year in a major sophomore slump, and Lamar Odom was starting at the 4. Center was Brian Grant. They had NOBODY on their bench besides Skip to My Lou

WHew... the Excuses...

Let's see. OLD MAN Eddie Jones = 17.3 ppg, 3.2 apg 3.8 rpg, 41% from the field, 37% from three.. But he's no good?

Since you didn't give an excuse for Lamar, I won't talk about him

Wade as a rookie: 16.2 ppg, 4.5 apg, 4.0 rpg. 46.5% from the field. 1.4 spg, 0.6 bpg... This is your PG...!!

Off the bench, Skip to my lou was getting you 11, 4.5 .

Off the bench, a Young Udonis was getting them 7ppg, 6.3 rpg in 23 minutes.

This was a freakin stacked team.

They had more depth (usable) than we have had in any playoff year.