Does Ferry / Budz see Jenkins as a starting SG?

[Buzzard]

As above you have to look at percentages. The Toyota Center can hold 18k fans for basketball and the Rockets averaged 16.6k (92%) per game last year at home. Philips arena holds roughly the same 18k fans for basketball but the Hawks only averaged 15.1K (81%) fans per game last year at home. And that's after what 6 straight postseason appearances now? So please tell me how the general Hawks fans support their team better than the general Rockets fans do.

They traded for Harden and signed Lin. That should be a huge boost. Just as we got a little boost when we signed Bibby and then took the Celtics to 7 games with our then young core.

If they do what we did and stay pat, I would wager their attendance will drop as well.

[NBASupes]

I will guarantee that Atlanta will have an attendance over 95% if we sign CP3 and Dwight. Put it in your sig if you want to.

[Admin]

I don't care about rank by percentages when your stadium having more seats means you sell more tickets. If Tennessee sell 89% of of their tickets and Vandy sell 100% of their tickets but Vandy stadium is 35k and Tennessee is 102k which has made more money and has more fans? Percentage wise Vandy did better right but actually who did better?

Since when do we care about road for NFL attendance. If anything it says how popular your team is to other fans in the NFL which they clearly aren't.

That sounds like the Hawks eight years ago yet we got s**tted on by the media for not showing up. You know what they say right, well Cubs fans still go to their games while losing.

OMG, did you just say Rockets fans are better is why they are more popular? I lived in both cities. Houston fans are bigger because they have been relevant for over 40 years. The Hawks haven't been relevant in over 15 years. This is simple man, it's not that hard, most fans will not stick around if they have no reason to. Houston fans have had guys like Yao, Hakeem, T-Mac, Francis, and Drexler. The Hawks have had Deke and Smitty. People clowned you if you played like Deke. People boo Smoove when he takes a long jumper yet you are comparing us to Rockets fans like a fair comparison.

Most of those years without a star profile player like Yao or T-Mac, they have been in the 10 of NBA attendance. One year they weren't their attendance was worse than ours yet we have worse fans right? Quit it, I been to both cities. Atlanta has a lot more Basketball fans and Hawks fans aren't much different mentally than Houston fans. Atlanta problem is a lot of their fans are player fans of James, Wade, Kobe, etc because Atlanta gives them zero hope. Not much different than when we had Chandler till we drafted Vick for the Falcons.

Atlanta fans>Houston fans in terms of Basketball. As far as Baseball, Atlanta. As far as Football, Houston.

You sir are delusional. But that's okay I'm not going to continue butting my head up against the wall.

[MaceCase]

As above you have to look at percentages. The Toyota Center can hold 18k fans for basketball and the Rockets averaged 16.6k (92%) per game last year at home. Philips arena holds roughly the same 18k fans for basketball but the Hawks only averaged 15.1K (81%) fans per game last year at home. And that's after what 6 straight postseason appearances now? So please tell me how the general Hawks fans support their team better than the general Rockets fans do.

I guess I have to repeat myself. Look at the Rockets home attendance percentage dating through the entire 2000s. Look at their total home attendance dating all the way back to when they won back to back championships......it's in the bottom half of the league either way you slice it.

As I said, the Hawks don't have championships and Joe Frickin Johnson as their biggest star since Nique left in 94' so having crap attendance is sort of expected but what exactly is Houston's excuse? Do they have 30 years of a mediocre product with a second round shootout which they lost being the high point of their franchise's success? No super stars that were consistent All Star starters and All NBA 1st teamers? Boring iso-ball instead of leading the league in pace? No ground-breaking international players making them a global brand?

See, I think my point is lost on you. I'm not making a direct comparison between Atlanta last year and Houston. I'm making the point in that Houston has had everything that we've bitched about not having in Atlanta yet still have always had rather pedestrian fan support. When Atlanta actually has these things and still doesn't come out to watch then I'll go all in and say that this is truly a despicable city but.........Houston has had all those things and not shown up......where is the outrage for them being a bad sports town?

[Admin]

They traded for Harden and signed Lin. That should be a huge boost. Just as we got a little boost when we signed Bibby and then took the Celtics to 7 games with our then young core.

If they do what we did and stay pat, I would wager their attendance will drop as well.

That's not likely to happen as they have a GM who knows what he's doing as opposed to what we had and they have an owner who puts winning above all.

[NBASupes]

You sir are delusional. But that's okay I'm not going to continue butting my head up against the wall.

We completely disagree. I guarantee if Atlanta gets stars, this city will instantly be a NBA city. Instantly. If we stay the same, no one will care but diehards.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Leadership

[Admin]

I guess I have to repeat myself. Look at the Rockets home attendance percentage dating through the entire 2000s. Look at their total home attendance dating all the way back to when they won back to back championships......it's in the bottom half of the league either way you slice it.

As I said, the Hawks don't have championships and Joe Frickin Johnson as their biggest star since Nique left in 94' so having crap attendance is sort of expected but what exactly is Houston's excuse? Do they have 30 years of a mediocre product with a second round shootout which they lost being the high point of their franchise's success? No super stars that were consistent All Star starters and All NBA 1st teamers? Boring iso-ball instead of leading the league in pace? No ground-breaking international players making them a global brand?

See, I think my point is lost on you. I'm not making a direct comparison between Atlanta last year and Houston. I'm making the point in that Houston has had everything that we've bitched about not having in Atlanta yet still have always had rather pedestrian fan support. When Atlanta actually has these things and still doesn't come out to watch then I'll go all in and say that this is truly a despicable city but.........Houston has had all those things and not shown up......where is the outrage for them being a bad sports town?

As I said to leadership, you are welcome to your opinion on this one but you're wrong. There's a reason the national opinion of Houston in terms of fan support is better than Atlanta, because the general sports fan in Houston cares more about their team and don't only show up for superstars from out of town.

[NBASupes]

I guess I have to repeat myself. Look at the Rockets home attendance percentage dating through the entire 2000s. Look at their total home attendance dating all the way back to when they won back to back championships......it's in the bottom half of the league either way you slice it.

As I said, the Hawks don't have championships and Joe Frickin Johnson as their biggest star since Nique left in 94' so having crap attendance is sort of expected but what exactly is Houston's excuse? Do they have 30 years of a mediocre product with a second round shootout which they lost being the high point of their franchise's success? No super stars that were consistent All Star starters and All NBA 1st teamers? Boring iso-ball instead of leading the league in pace? No ground-breaking international players making them a global brand?

See, I think my point is lost on you. I'm not making a direct comparison between Atlanta last year and Houston. I'm making the point in that Houston has had everything that we've bitched about not having in Atlanta yet still have always had rather pedestrian fan support. When Atlanta actually has these things and still doesn't come out to watch then I'll go all in and say that this is truly a despicable city but.........Houston has had all those things and not shown up......where is the outrage for them being a bad sports town?

This. The state of Georgia is a Football state. College Football especially. The city of Atlanta is a Basketball city. They are huge NBA fans even if they aren't fans of the Hawks.

[Admin]

We completely disagree. I guarantee if Atlanta gets stars, this city will instantly be a NBA city. Instantly. If we stay the same, no one will care but diehards.

If Atlanta gets LeBron or D Rose or some other big time scoring superstar then yeah I would say it will instantly come. However I'm skeptical about how much attendance will change with Dwight and CP3. It could be great immediately, but I have a feeling fans will still wait to see how they play together before purchasing season tickets. If you don't believe that, why not create a thread with a poll asking people here if they will buy season tickets if the Hawks get those 2. I have a feeling it won't be as high of a number as you think. And we are considered the die-hard fans, not the casual fans.

[NBASupes]

As I said to leadership, you are welcome to your opinion on this one but you're wrong. There's a reason the national opinion of Houston in terms of fan support is better than Atlanta, because the general sports fan in Houston cares more about their team and don't only show up for superstars from out of town.

You don't get it. He is basically telling you why the Hawk fan is better. Houston has been in the bottom half of attendance with Yao, T-Mac, Francis, Hakeem, and other international stars. The best the Hawks have had is Joe Johnson who most people don't like or don't give a s**t about.

[NBASupes]

If Atlanta gets LeBron or D Rose or some other big time scoring superstar then yeah I would say it will instantly come. However I'm skeptical about how much attendance will change with Dwight and CP3. It could be great immediately, but I have a feeling fans will still wait to see how they play together before purchasing season tickets. If you don't believe that, why not create a thread with a poll asking people here if they will buy season tickets if the Hawks get those 2. I have a feeling it won't be as high of a number as you think. And we are considered the die-hard fans, not the casual fans.

Dwight had a standing O after the Hawks beat Orlando in the playoffs and the arena was screaming we want Dwight. Atlanta has always been huge Dwight fans, moreso than the average. CP3 is one of the most popular players in the NBA. I know more D12 and CP3 a piece then D. Rose fans in Atlanta combined who aren't Bulls fans.

Durant is not huge in Atlanta yet he would make people sell out tickets. You are short selling CP3 and D12 impact in Atlanta like it's Joe Johnson and Josh Smith. If we land CP3 and D12. Everyone including ESPN will hype stuff up and tickets will fly as soon as ESPN says anything about a trade.

[Admin]

You don't get it. He is basically telling you why the Hawk fan is better. Houston has been in the bottom half of attendance with Yao, T-Mac, Francis, Hakeem, and other international stars. The best the Hawks have had is Joe Johnson who most people don't like or don't give a s**t about.

You're both welcome to continue telling me the sky is green but that doesn't make it fact.

[MaceCase]

As I said to leadership, you are welcome to your opinion on this one but you're wrong. There's a reason the national opinion of Houston in terms of fan support is better than Atlanta, because the general sports fan in Houston cares more about their team and don't only show up for superstars from out of town.

What kind of argument is this? You say my opinion based on facts is wrong because the "national opinion" holds more water......despite it not being supported by any facts? This is the exact point I'm making!

It's easier to buy into lazy journalism and just say "it's the Clippers" or "same ole Bengals" or "that crap Atlanta fan support" than to take a minute out your life and look at the numbers. Just follow along and believe whatever ESPN tells you, life is just easier that way.

[Admin]

What facts are you basing your opinion on?

[Buzzard]

That's not likely to happen as they have a GM who knows what he's doing as opposed to what we had and they have an owner who puts winning above all.

That is my point. We have had nothing great to speak of in 5 years. as the organization tumbles so does that fan base. Our two highlights were taking Boston to seven and then finally beating Orlando. JJ is our one star and does not compare well nationally with any of the below four.

There is no denying Houston has had its share of star power. Francis, TMac, Yao, and now Harden/Lin. That is really what draws the fair weather fans when a team is just borderline playoff good. How many seasons did the talk of TMac finally leading his team to playoff glory resurface throughout the NBA? I would say just about every season he was there.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Buzzard

[MaceCase]

What facts are you basing your opinion on?

Both B-R's and ESPN's attendance rankings.

[Admin]

Both B-R's and ESPN's attendance rankings.

Oh you must be looking at something different than I am then as I'm clearly seeing better fan support for Houston.

[MaceCase]

Oh you must be looking at something different than I am then as I'm clearly seeing better fan support for Houston.

.............Given that they have had Hakeem, 2 championships, Francis, Yao, TMac and Harden I would sure as f*** hope so. Now tell me why they can't crack the top half of the league then? Or is being better than Atlanta yet worse than 50% of the rest of league despite a plethora of rings and stars a major accomplishment in establishing great fan support?

Edited June 10, 2013 by MaceCase

[Admin]

2013 Avg Home Attendance

Atlanta - 15,125 (80.8%)

Houston - 16,672 (92.4%)

2012 Avg Home Attendance

Atlanta - 15,199 (81.2%)

Houston - 15,363 (85.1%)

2011 Avg Home Attendance

Atlanta - 15,648 (83.6%)

Houston - 16,191 (89.7%)

2010 Avg Home Attendance

Atlanta - 16,545 (88.3%)

Houston - 16,528 (91.6%) - technically Houston had a higher percentage but I'll give this one to Atlanta

2009 Avg Home Attendance

Atlanta - 16,748 (89.4%)

Houston - 17,482 (96.9%)

2008 Avg Home Attendance

Atlanta - 16,280 (--)

Houston - 17,524 (94.7%)

2007 Avg Home Attendance

Atlanta - 15,594 (--)

Houston - 16,545 (89.4%)

2006 Avg Home Attendance

Atlanta - 15,071 (--)

Houston - 15,514 (83.9%)

2005 Avg Home Attendance

Atlanta - 14,302 (--)

Houston - 16,181 (87.5%)

2004 Avg Home Attendance

Atlanta - 13,798 (--)

Houston - 15,629 (84.5%)

2003 Avg Home Attendance

Atlanta - 12,894 (--)

Houston - 13,784 (84.5%)

So in 1 year out of the last 10 the Hawks drew more people per game, by a whopping 17. Every other year the Rockets beat the Hawks and every single year the Rockets beat the Hawks in percentage of capacity of the building. You can deny that means anything but it flat out means that the Rockets came closer to fulfilling the expectations of the arena than the Hawks did.

So please Mace and Leadership, tell me again about these facts of how Atlanta has better fan support? Oh I know you're gonna go to hypotheticals about the Rockets have the better star players but even in the years 2009-2012 when Atlanta had the far better and more well known players the Rockets still consistently had better fan support.

[Admin]

.............Given that they have had Hakeem, 2 championships, Francis, Yao, TMac and Harden I would sure as f*** hope so. Now tell me why they can't crack the top half of the league then? Or is being better than Atlanta yet worse than 50% of the rest of league despite a plethora of rings and stars a major accomplishment in establishing great fan support?

Did I say the Rockets had GREAT fan support? I don't recall that. I've said they have better fan support than Atlanta and that Houston teams in general get better fan support than Atlanta. And I can damn sure promise you that the Rockets aren't booed at home by their fans who are cheering for the other team like we've seen time and again in Atlanta.