Merged: Discussion on Tanking

[TheNorthCydeRises]

That tank team would be greatly under the cap floor as well but would be hard as hell to improve that team in the long run. We would be tanking forever.

I can see Charlotte letting Tyrus out of his deal when they need his salary to tank as well.

I can't see Korver coming back if we are tanking and if we fail to get CP3/D12.

Our tank team should be more like:

Mack

Jenkins

Green

Horf

Kwame Brown

That should be a super tank squad. We got to have Al in there to at least be able to look like we are playing some type of hoops and it's not good to bare the cup fully bare. Even OKC had some decent players around Westy and Durant.

You're still trying to keep Horford in your "tank scenario". No such thing as "halfway tanking". Just overpay a bunch of people. Give Kyle and Zaza 10 million. Give Mack 5 million. Bring in Jason Collins and give him 6 million. Call back Royal Ivey and Damien Wilkins, and give them 7 million. Give them all 1 year contracts at 2 year contract prices. Then you can have the most ping pong balls, and the most cap room.

That's what you want, right?

Tank it all the way. Why not go all out for that 25% chance to get that #1 pick, when Horford could mess it all up, and drop down down to 5% ( because other bad teams would be in full tank mode as well ).

The good thing is that the team with the worst record ( despite the 25% probability ) hardly ever gets that #1 pick. Since 1994 ( 20 draft lotteries ), the team with the worst record has gotten that #1 pick only twice ( in 2003 and 2004 ). The team with the 3rd worst record has gotten the #1 pick the most . . . 6 times out of 20.

Edited June 24, 2013 by northcyde

[NBASupes]

You're still trying to keep Horford in your "tank scenario". No such thing as "halfway tanking". Just overpay a bunch of people. Give Kyle and Zaza 10 million. Give Mack 5 million. Bring in Jason Collins and give him 6 million. Call back Royal Ivey and Damien Wilkins, and give them 7 million. Give them all 1 year contracts at 2 year contract prices. Then you can have the most ping pong balls, and the most cap room.

That's what you want, right?

Tank it all the way. Why not go all out for that 25% chance to get that #1 pick, when Horford could mess it all up, and drop down down to 5% ( because other bad teams would be in full tank mode as well ).

The good thing is that the team with the worst record ( despite the 25% probability ) hardly ever gets that #1 pick. Since 1994 ( 20 draft lotteries ), the team with the worst record has gotten that #1 pick only twice ( in 2003 and 2004 ). The team with the 3rd worst record has gotten the #1 pick the most . . . 6 times out of 20.

How is a roster with Mack/Jenkins/Green/Horf/Brown equals half way tanking? That's full blown tanking. You got three scrubs, a SG who is learning the ropes and a very good player with an extremely young bench as well. That's one of the worse teams in the NBA. Your idea of tanking is to empty the cup bare. That would take too long and it would be hard to develop players around other young players. With Horf, we can tank properly.

We only need two years. We just need to suck bad for those two years (14 and 15). Look at Washington and Cleveland. Both of these teams have a prime potential superstar in Wall and Irving. While Irving is allow to develop more because he gets to play with some quality vets, they bared the cup empty for Wall and his development too much longer. We need Al. From there we can do what we please. None of the young players in 14 outside of Smart is ready to help us win games in 14-15 anyway so we can still easily tank for 15.

If we can get into 16 with Wiggins, Parker, Smart, Hezonja, A. Harrison to play with Okafor or Jones.

With Horf and a lot of cap space and assets from other picks, we can build a superteam like OKC. That's smart management.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Leadership

[Diesel]

1. We have 3 more years to use that cap space. No need to rush out and overpay someone right now if we can't get one of the superstars to sign.2. We could sign Mayo to play SG for 1/3 of what JJ makes and get equal, if not better production with OJ getting better and JJ declining.3. We have already seen we were exactly as good with Harris / Lou at SG as we were with JJ and that's without using up all of that cap space so yeah we won that trade no matter how you look at it, even if we don't sign a superstar.

This seems like a justification of the JJ trade revisited.

Before the facts be forgotten, let's remember our last season with JJ was without Horf most of the season so we were not as good this year as we were with JJ. It's a bad comparison. Had Horf sat most of the season and Zaza replaced him like the year prior, you could make that claim...

[Diesel]

If we're going to tank, let's trade Horf for some young talent.

Personally, I would like ANdre' Drummond.

[Guest]

How many of you are going to spend money to see a bad team play BAD basketball? I know I will not, I go to games and watch basketball to be entertained. I can't in good conscience spend my hard earned money to go to a game KNOWING we have no chance to win the game.

[NBASupes]

How many of you are going to spend money to see a bad team play BAD basketball?I know I will not, I go to games and watch basketball to be entertained. I can't in good conscience spend my hard earned money to go to a game KNOWING we have no chance to win the game.

The Hawks games were more fun to when they were bad. They had better entertainment during the breaks then during the games. Now the Hawks games are just the games which are still boring but more likely to win.

[tonegully]

The in game chat is always the best when we are getting blown out and losing games. When we win the chat is so boring lol

[Guest]

The Hawks games were more fun to when they were bad. They had better entertainment during the breaks then during the games. Now the Hawks games are just the games which are still boring but more likely to win.

Uh...No!!I could not go to those games much less watch on TV...just BAD basketball. Edited June 24, 2013 by JayBirdHawk

[NBASupes]

Uh...No!!I could not go to those games much less watch on TV...just BAD basketball.

I enjoyed the draft. Last year, I didn't enjoy anything. The year before, I didn't enjoy anything. It sucks but what's the point of watching when this team isn't good enough and they don't have the pieces to get a superstar or the cap is maxed and you are in the middle. It's like Knicks fans right now. They are pissed and most would rather tank. They have a top 5 face in Melo. We had Joe Johnson as our face. Of course there was times were they were like, we could beat Miami then reality hit and it sucks. I hated it and will always hate it. We just need two top 5 picks and two top 3 picks would get us on the fast track and two 1 picks like Wiggins and Okafor would set us up for contending for many years to come.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Leadership

[Admin]

This seems like a justification of the JJ trade revisited.Before the facts be forgotten, let's remember our last season with JJ was without Horf most of the season so we were not as good this year as we were with JJ. It's a bad comparison. Had Horf sat most of the season and Zaza replaced him like the year prior, you could make that claim...

You're ignoring the only fact that matters. We can easily duplicate or better JJs declining production and efficiency for 1/3 to 1/2 of what he was being paid. No way can you say the same about Horford.

The in game chat is always the best when we are getting blown out and losing games. When we win the chat is so boring lol

Haha that's the best logic ever!

[Guest]

I enjoyed the draft. Last year, I didn't enjoy anything. The year before, I didn't enjoy anything. It sucks but what's the point of watching when this team isn't good enough and they don't have the pieces to get a superstar or the cap is maxed and you are in the middle. It's like Knicks fans right now. They are pissed and most would rather tank. They have a top 5 face in Melo. We had Joe Johnson as our face. Of course there was times were they were like, we could beat Miami then reality hit and it sucks. I hated it and will always hate it. We just need two top 5 picks and two top 3 picks would get us on the fast track and two 1 picks like Wiggins and Okafor would set us up for contending for many years to come.

We need them? Yes - there is still NO GAURANTEE we get them. You are saying it as if it's a given.

[Admin]

If we're going to tank, let's trade Horf for some young talent. Personally, I would like ANdre' Drummond.

Pistons aren't trading him for Horford

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The Hawks games were more fun to when they were bad. They had better entertainment during the breaks then during the games. Now the Hawks games are just the games which are still boring but more likely to win.

Yeah right

It's a shame that this 2010 Hawks team crashed and burned vs Orlando, because they were really a joy to watch that year. Watching that team win 34 home games that year was a true delight. Too bad they couldn't figure out how to even compete against Dwight and the Magic, because they basically beat everyone else ( except OKC ) that year.

If you think watching scrub basketball is better than watching this kind of basketball, I don't know what to say.

Edited June 24, 2013 by northcyde

[NBASupes]

Yeah right

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6iRpp3McO8

It's a shame that this 2010 Hawks team crashed and burned vs Orlando, because they were really a joy to watch that year. Watching that team win 34 home games that year was a true delight. Too bad they couldn't figure out how to even compete against Dwight and the Magic, because they basically beat everyone else ( except OKC ) that year.

If you think watching scrub basketball is better than watching this kind of basketball, I don't know what to say.

That team had moments, moments are boring to me. I need consistency. That's why I never brought in to those Joe era teams in Atlanta or the Deke teams either. I knew these teams weren't getting to the ECF before the season started.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Leadership

[wolvetigers]

OKC was in the lottery four straight seasons before making the playoffs

Memphis was in the lottery four straight seasons before making the playoffs

NY Knicks were in the lottery six straight seasons before making the playoffs

NY Nets were in the lottery five straight seasons before making the playoffs

LA Clippers were in the lottery five straight season before making the playoffs

GS Warriors were in the lottery five straight seasons before making the playoffs

Everybody thinks its easy to build by sucking. Even if you get lucky as hell and draft a Durant and Westbrook, or a Gasol, Conley and pick up a Zbo, tanking is a very long and painful experience. Miss out on one franchise or good player and four years of being a bottom feeder turns into five or six.

Are you really ready for that?

Well said !!

[wolvetigers]

Pistons aren't trading him for Horford

I wouldnt trade horford for Drummond...my god why would we do that

[Admin]

I wouldnt trade horford for Drummond...my god why would we do that

I would in a heartbeat. #1 he's going to be a lot cheaper for a long time, #2 he's a true 7' C and #3 he's a better all around talent. In 2-3 years he's going to be a better player than Horford who also plays a premium position.

[wolvetigers]

I would in a heartbeat. #1 he's going to be a lot cheaper for a long time, #2 he's a true 7' C and #3 he's a better all around talent. In 2-3 years he's going to be a better player than Horford who also plays a premium position.

And this is based on 1 season...Let's see Drummond in two years...Horford is better skilled, strong character, great locker room guy and has been playing out of position since being in ATL...All Bud has to do is move Horford to the PF spot and get a Legit Center through the draft or Free Agency...Horford is an Allstar not flashy but good. NO WAY WE TRADE FOR DRUMMOND

Edited June 24, 2013 by wolvetigers

[Admin]

And this is based on 1 season...Let's see Drummond in two years...Horford is better skilled, strong character, great locker room guy and has been playing out of position since being in ATL...All Bud has to do is move Horford to the PF spot and get a Legit Center through the draft or Free Agency...Horford is an Allstar not flashy but good. NO WAY WE TRADE FOR DRUMMOND

Trust me I am as big of a Horford fan as anyone but it's a no brainer when you are talking about a 27 year old PF getting paid $12 million dollars as opposed to a 20 year old 7' 2-way C who's getting paid $2.5 million. He showed last year that he's got tremendous skill and can play at a high level in this league. It's going to take a couple of years to develop but I am absolutely certain he will get there.

[NBASupes]

Trust me I am as big of a Horford fan as anyone but it's a no brainer when you are talking about a 27 year old PF getting paid $12 million dollars as opposed to a 20 year old 7' 2-way C who's getting paid $2.5 million. He showed last year that he's got tremendous skill and can play at a high level in this league. It's going to take a couple of years to develop but I am absolutely certain he will get there.

He doesn't have tremendous skill or he would have been a starter and a lock as an All Star. He has tremendous talent and potential.