Merged: Discussion on Tanking

[Guest]

4 years from tanking for TD to reach an ECF then they stagnated for 3 seasons after in the 2nd round. Blew it up and tanked for 2 years, won the Finals.

9 years - thanks.

[MaceCase]

9 years - thanks.

Uhm, you are looking at 2 entirely different periods, teams, management and targets. If you still want to take the totality then again, they achieved few things in just 9 years that Atlanta Hawks haven't achieved in........... ever. But hey, look how that turned out, lol.

[Guest]

Uhm, you are looking at 2 entirely different periods, teams, management and targets. If you still want to take the totality then again, they achieved few things in just 9 years that Atlanta Hawks haven't achieved in........... ever. But hey, look how that turned out, lol.

That's ok - I was just asking because I read 'tank for 1 year'.

Edited July 2, 2013 by JayBirdHawk

[MaceCase]

That's ok - I was just asking because I read 'tank for 1 year'.

Well that would be precisely true seeing as they did win the title in the same year Oden was drafted.

[Admin]

JayBird give it up, ExodusCase is never going to stop going and going and going and going and...

Sidebar, I have no dog in this fight, just enjoying the arguing.

[Guest]

Lol - I guess he missed the part about tanking to get the #1 pick and it didnt happen for Boston either time, so after trying it the 2nd time they gave up and went in another direction.

Edited July 2, 2013 by JayBirdHawk

[MaceCase]

Lol - I guess he missed the part about tanking to get the #1 pick and it didnt happen for Boston either time, so after trying it the 2nd time they gave up and went in another direction.

Except tanking has this horrible side effect of still giving you valuable pieces either to develop for yourself or trade. Boston directly utilized the results of their tanking to win a title.

If you want to narrow successful tanking to only obtaining the #1 pick rather than obtaining valuable draft assets then there is absolutely no point in arguing because these same tight parameters are not being attached to those in the anti-tanking crowd. If signing this year's crop of B-listers doesn't get the Hawks to at least an ECF then it failed, free agency therefore does not work. Worse still, these veteran free agent contracts will not get more valuable as time goes on and will doubly screw you from being awarded top picks.

That sounds like a perfectly sound argument using the same logic.

[IllestPamfilis]

For Wiggins and the situation we're currently in.....TANK IT

[RWF]

Wiggins isn't the only one I would tank for. Danny Ferry could very well eye Duke prospect Jabari Parker (being compared to Melo) who is another potential superstar.

I would be happy with a Dennis Schröder, Jabari Parker, and Al Horford start. Maybe we can even try to get another pick, maybe in a S&T for Smith.

Not getting Dwight Howard doesn't mean the end of searching for a star. Thing is if we sign the Ellis and Jefferson players just to stay in the playoffs, we won't get that chance for a star.

Edited July 2, 2013 by RWF

[DJlaysitup]

Except tanking has this horrible side effect of still giving you valuable pieces either to develop for yourself or trade. Boston directly utilized the results of their tanking to win a title.

If you want to narrow successful tanking to only obtaining the #1 pick rather than obtaining valuable draft assets then there is absolutely no point in arguing because these same tight parameters are not being attached to those in the anti-tanking crowd. If signing this year's crop of B-listers doesn't get the Hawks to at least an ECF then it failed....

This is a huge point and why DF has (hopefully) gone in with a two-pronged approach.

...actually a three pronged approach (I hope).

You get or don't get CP3/D12 - or a similar group of talent to compete right now - or -

- you get the top guy (or second or third if you think they are good enough) in the draft next year and build around him - or -

- you get back in the lottery pool.

[RWF]

Free Agency/Trade/Draft

3 ways to get a Franchise Player. Dwight Howard is the only free agent. We have nothing to trade for a star with. Draft is the only outcome if we don't get Dwight. "Tanking" seems to be the best option after we see what Dwight does.

[DJlaysitup]

OK, Ok, ok...Mace is dead right. If you look at the pool of players we SHOULD have had by tanking to 13 wins - 26 wins - whatever...we had top 1st round picks and VERY GOOD 2nd round picks to boot. We picked the following guys (who are hanging in the league by their fingernails or gone - but the picks should have gotten us real players:

Chillz...... #6

Marvin...#2

Shelden......#5

Massive trades of picks to get JJ who we gave away for cap space and were JUBILANT!!

2nd round picks could have gotten us players like Milsap or at least solid role players.

We were RICH...and we F'ed it up.

Now let's not do that again.

Edited July 2, 2013 by DJlaysitup

[swift]

Why we so eager to sign free agents ? Big Al , Iggy , Tyreke , Monta ?They are going to diminish the cap and put us back in same place when we had Joe JohnsonWhy not let the young guys play and don't add any cap and embrace a tank season in hopes of Wiggins?If we can't sign Dwight ( which is 5 % chance of happening ) then we just bargain huntMove on from Teague ( don't match any offer) PG- Schröder SG-JenkinsSF- Brandon Rush( low offer)PF- HorfordC- Dalambert ( low offer)Keep salary off books and basically go into tank mode

[Dragitoff]

Why we so eager to sign free agents ? Big Al , Iggy , Tyreke , Monta ?They are going to diminish the cap and put us back in same place when we had Joe JohnsonWhy not let the young guys play and don't add any cap and embrace a tank season in hopes of Wiggins?If we can't sign Dwight ( which is 5 % chance of happening ) then we just bargain huntMove on from Teague ( don't match any offer)PG- SchroederSG-JenkinsSF- Brandon Rush( low offer)PF- HorfordC- Dalambert ( low offer)Keep salary off books and basically go into tank mode

Did we really need another tank thread?

[DrReality]

Did we really need another tank thread?

Ditto

[AHF]

how long did it take from when they tanked for TD then tanked for Oden to finally get the championship?(I'm too lazy to look it up)

It will take you even less time to see how Atlanta's years of "just keep winning" took to win them a championship under Kasten and Babcock, et al. Just look up the total number of years the Hawks have been in Atlanta and subtract the relatively few years we actually tanked. It will be that remainder and counting if we go the "sign B level free agents and land the 6th spot in the East" method.

Edited July 2, 2013 by AHF

[Guest]

Merge.

Edited July 2, 2013 by JayBirdHawk

[Sothron]

I am in favor of it if we can't land Dwight or trade for a superstar. The worst thing we can do is waste our cap space on trying to be a playoff team and settling for that.

[coachx]

Why we so eager to sign free agents ? Big Al , Iggy , Tyreke , Monta ?They are going to diminish the cap and put us back in same place when we had Joe JohnsonWhy not let the young guys play and don't add any cap and embrace a tank season in hopes of Wiggins?If we can't sign Dwight ( which is 5 % chance of happening ) then we just bargain huntMove on from Teague ( don't match any offer)PG- SchroederSG-JenkinsSF- Brandon Rush( low offer)PF- HorfordC- Dalambert ( low offer)Keep salary off books and basically go into tank mode

To me that is preserving cap flexibility.

Full fledge tanks mode is trading off Horford for draft picks and signing 1 year contracts.

[ATLSmith]

I am in favor of it if we can't land Dwight or trade for a superstar. The worst thing we can do is waste our cap space on trying to be a playoff team and settling for that.

Pretty much this.