Brand the latest vet to choose Hawks over others

[Packfill]

I agree with sothron and others in having concerns with Ferry's moves to date. Flexibilty is nice, but absent a superstar talent it takes an incredible amount of luck and risk to translate "assets and flexibility" into a legitimate champinship contender. Remember, Houston was fortunate that Harden emerged as much as he did post-trade.

Signing a bunch of aging veterans makes sense if you are making a run at a championship. Signing Brand for Hawks team with questionable ability to get out of the first round of the playoffs raises question marks. Could be Danny told Brand that he will deal him to contender at the deadline for a draft pick or high upside youngster. Also could be that Danny has a mandate from ownership to win now. Outside of the two previously mentioned scenarios, you have to at least think that a rebuilding team wants a shot at the top of the 2014 draft, due to the potential franchise changing talent that appears available. Even if Denis and BeBe max-out their potential the Hawks will need a legitimate first option scorer to go with them.

[macdaddy]

I agree with sothron and others in having concerns with Ferry's moves to date. Flexibilty is nice, but absent a superstar talent it takes an incredible amount of luck and risk to translate "assets and flexibility" into a legitimate champinship contender. Remember, Houston was fortunate that Harden emerged as much as he did post-trade.

Signing a bunch of aging veterans makes sense if you are making a run at a championship. Signing Brand for Hawks team with questionable ability to get out of the first round of the playoffs raises question marks. Could be Danny told Brand that he will deal him to contender at the deadline for a draft pick or high upside youngster. Also could be that Danny has a mandate from ownership to win now. Outside of the two previously mentioned scenarios, you have to at least think that a rebuilding team wants a shot at the top of the 2014 draft, due to the potential franchise changing talent that appears available. Even if Denis and BeBe max-out their potential the Hawks will need a legitimate first option scorer to go with them.

I don't think our ownership can afford 3-5 years of being in the lottery. I think they are trying to build a team that plays hard and try to make a trade for the big time scorer when it comes available.

[Chinky_eyed_hawk]

It sucks that everyone puts all their eggs in one basket with this team. For a lot of fans here it seems like there is this championship or bust mentality and while I agree with most, that we have been nothing more than a 2nd round playoff team at best, I don't agree with the championship or tank mentality.

I try not to chime in on this subject as everyone has their opinion and most won't be swayed to the other side of the conversation no matter what side of the fence you are on. But I will like to point out a couple of things:

In any offseason, for the most part there are no more than let's say 2-3 TOP tier free agents. These are the bonofied superstars, with their brand in place, multiple all-star appearances, best player on any team they would go to type players. Then there's the serviceable group, be it starters on the verge of being greater or key players to start or come off the bench. Then there's everyone else... be it potential, change of scenery, playing style, etc.

No matter how much money you can throw at a player(max deals), who's on your rosters, the coaching staff, or the city, It's up to the player to make the decision. All that being said, You can make the best pitch possible no matter if you are the mighty lakers, the "treadmill" hawks", or the lowly bobcats it's ultimately up to the player to make the best decision for himself, his family, and his brand. It's easy to say that DF has failed because he didn't get that 1 player you thought you he should get, but its not that simple people. A gm's ahead of the curve if he gets close to 40-50% of his decisions right. That's how tough that role is people. If you did 40% of your job right, you probably wouldn't have the job in the first place, and it damn sure wouldn't be viewed as a success I assure you.

All that being said, I don't think Danny has made a single "wrong" move. Sure Brand isn't Spry, but he still very serviceable. I would even dare to say more so at this stage in his career than when we got Bibby, which for this franchise was the most solid move in a very long time. It's not like we are resting out hopes on Antoine Walker or anything... lol

If you can start by bringing in nice "secondary" personnel to the team, it makes the team more competitive overall and ultimately makes it easier for that "superstar of tomorrow" to say, "they have nice pieces, I like what they are doing in Atlanta, they've been a playoff team for the past 6 years and just need that piece to get over the hump, and I want to be a part of it."

This is the hawks I see DF building. The one where he had to clean up Billy's choices FIRST. Get the type of players that will buy into the system next, then have those pieces attracted that $$$$$$$$$ FA everyone wants.

CHURCH

[Sothron]

Why can't you just be a fan and not an owner/GM?I felt bad for you when you were run off but you have this bitter tone in all of your posts regarding every...single....thing Atlanta Hawks.The board would love to have your positive attitude back.

Thanks for the sympathy. The only reason I left back then was due to death threats against myself and my wife. Someone even managed to find my real life name and address and told me in one death threat they knew exactly where to kill her and then me. It was disturbing. The guy running the site back then did nothing to stop it so I left. I came back when Dolf assured me nothing like that would happen again and he has been true to his word.

I will try to be less negative but I also have been as honest as I can with every post I make on this site. I just don't see how the moves we're making move us from first round and out where we've been stuck for years to actual contender. That's what I want to see one day: a contending Hawks team actually win the title.

[taz]

You guys are fine to have a different opinion it's just you guys sound like a broken record.Every single thread turns into a dumb argument about draft picks and stuff. I mean I think you've expressed y'all's opinions on tanking the draft etc enough I'm tired of reading basically the same post 1661832 times. I get it you're not happy now offer another opinion plz cause you guys seem smart and probably have some fun observationsTl:dr: your right to an opinion is great but you sound like a broken record

Edited July 17, 2013 by taz

[TheFuzz]

absent a superstar talent it takes an incredible amount of luck and risk to translate "assets and flexibility" into a legitimate champinship contender. Remember, Houston was fortunate that Harden emerged as much as he did post-trade.

The same thing can be said for fielding a team bad enough for a top 5 pick.

The truth is it takes a lot of luck period. I can see the merits of "tanking" particularly with an eye for talent at the helm like Ferry but Ferry is taking a different path that has shown to be successful recently with a handful of teams in a changing CBA. Furthermore, I think Ferry has shown to be an incredibly talented GM. We'll see, but I find it hard to not be optimistic. ESPECIALLY after the dark ages of a $22M Joe Johnson.

Could our constant asset collecting and reloading go nowhere? Sure. But we're not a "treadmill" team if we're reloading over and over with a lot of flexibility. A Harden type might shake loose.

On the flipside, could 3 years of top 5 picks net us the next Durant, Westbrook and Harden? Sure. It could also net us Oden, Kwame Brown and Bargnani.

It takes loads of luck mixed with loads of skill. For once, I feel we have the skill part down. For once I'm not angry to be a Hawks fan.

[LamarHampton]

Thanks for the sympathy. The only reason I left back then was due to death threats against myself and my wife. Someone even managed to find my real life name and address and told me in one death threat they knew exactly where to kill her and then me. It was disturbing. The guy running the site back then did nothing to stop it so I left. I came back when Dolf assured me nothing like that would happen again and he has been true to his word.

I will try to be less negative but I also have been as honest as I can with every post I make on this site. I just don't see how the moves we're making move us from first round and out where we've been stuck for years to actual contender. That's what I want to see one day: a contending Hawks team actually win the title.

You guys are fine to have a different opinion it's just you guys sound like a broken record. Every single thread turns into a dumb argument about draft picks and stuff. I mean I think you've expressed y'all's opinions on tanking the draft etc enough I'm tired of reading basically the same post 1661832 times. I get it you're not happy now offer another opinion plz cause you guys seem smart and probably have some fun observations Tl:dr: your right to an opinion is great but you sound like a broken record

Yeah Soth, I can appreciate a different POV but I've been looking at this site for only a little over a year and it seems like every time you post (and a couple of select others) it's always hyper-negative. Sometimes that sort of thing is warranted, but not in every single thread. I read tons of threads where I disagree with people but I don't write anything to them because my Mama said if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all. You obviously watch a lot of ball and have a lot of knowledge, and a lot of us appreciate that. But there's no need to drop a verbal load on everyone or every thread that doesn't focus on tanking and building through the draft.

A lot of moves have been made in this offseason, and for a large number of us who disagree with the tanking strategy (or those who accept that's not the direction we're going), we're excited.

The Korver re-signing has a lot of potential.

The Millsap signing has a lot of potential.

The Teague re-signing has a lot of potential.

Our rookies from this year and last have a lot of potential.

Brand even brings a good bit of excitement to the table.

There's a lot to be excited about around here in Hawks Country. No need to poo poo every single move because (a) nothing has really been all that bad, (b) nobody wants to hear that over and over, and © as a part of the "culture change" of this organization, we could contribute somewhat in our own little way by changing the way we view and portray our team by not pouring out such a negative viewpoint all the time and instead finding positive ways of supporting our team.

Just my $0.02

Love you long time.

[Seano]

It sucks that everyone puts all their eggs in one basket with this team. For a lot of fans here it seems like there is this championship or bust mentality and while I agree with most, that we have been nothing more than a 2nd round playoff team at best, I don't agree with the championship or tank mentality.

I try not to chime in on this subject as everyone has their opinion and most won't be swayed to the other side of the conversation no matter what side of the fence you are on. But I will like to point out a couple of things:

In any offseason, for the most part there are no more than let's say 2-3 TOP tier free agents. These are the bonofied superstars, with their brand in place, multiple all-star appearances, best player on any team they would go to type players. Then there's the serviceable group, be it starters on the verge of being greater or key players to start or come off the bench. Then there's everyone else... be it potential, change of scenery, playing style, etc.

No matter how much money you can throw at a player(max deals), who's on your rosters, the coaching staff, or the city, It's up to the player to make the decision. All that being said, You can make the best pitch possible no matter if you are the mighty lakers, the "treadmill" hawks", or the lowly bobcats it's ultimately up to the player to make the best decision for himself, his family, and his brand. It's easy to say that DF has failed because he didn't get that 1 player you thought you he should get, but its not that simple people. A gm's ahead of the curve if he gets close to 40-50% of his decisions right. That's how tough that role is people. If you did 40% of your job right, you probably wouldn't have the job in the first place, and it damn sure wouldn't be viewed as a success I assure you.

All that being said, I don't think Danny has made a single "wrong" move. Sure Brand isn't Spry, but he still very serviceable. I would even dare to say more so at this stage in his career than when we got Bibby, which for this franchise was the most solid move in a very long time. It's not like we are resting out hopes on Antoine Walker or anything... lol

If you can start by bringing in nice "secondary" personnel to the team, it makes the team more competitive overall and ultimately makes it easier for that "superstar of tomorrow" to say, "they have nice pieces, I like what they are doing in Atlanta, they've been a playoff team for the past 6 years and just need that piece to get over the hump, and I want to be a part of it."

This is the hawks I see DF building. The one where he had to clean up Billy's choices FIRST. Get the type of players that will buy into the system next, then have those pieces attracted that $$$$$$$$$ FA everyone wants.

CHURCH

Well done. Excellent post.

[Seano]

Yeah Soth, I can appreciate a different POV but I've been looking at this site for only a little over a year and it seems like every time you post (and a couple of select others) it's always hyper-negative. Sometimes that sort of thing is warranted, but not in every single thread. I read tons of threads where I disagree with people but I don't write anything to them because my Mama said if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all. You obviously watch a lot of ball and have a lot of knowledge, and a lot of us appreciate that. But there's no need to drop a verbal load on everyone or every thread that doesn't focus on tanking and building through the draft.

A lot of moves have been made in this offseason, and for a large number of us who disagree with the tanking strategy (or those who accept that's not the direction we're going), we're excited.

The Korver re-signing has a lot of potential.

The Millsap signing has a lot of potential.

The Teague re-signing has a lot of potential.

Our rookies from this year and last have a lot of potential.

Brand even brings a good bit of excitement to the table.

There's a lot to be excited about around here in Hawks Country. No need to poo poo every single move because (a) nothing has really been all that bad, (b) nobody wants to hear that over and over, and © as a part of the "culture change" of this organization, we could contribute somewhat in our own little way by changing the way we view and portray our team by not pouring out such a negative viewpoint all the time and instead finding positive ways of supporting our team.

Just my $0.02

Love you long time.

I don't really mind that so much, because if there is any axiom on this earth which holds a grain of truth, that would be that some view the world as being a half empty cup, while others will always see it half-full, and that is just a fundamental aspect of human nature, such differing perceptions of the world, and whether willful or not. That's just who we are.

And and as you noted, Sothron and whomever else has every right to their opinion, and who knows, they might even be right, and we might be headed down to Hell in a hand-basket all over again. However, I can't help but think, hope and envision a half-full cup, and to me personally, it would just be an absolutely epic drag to be so fatalistic as to have virtually given up before it's even started.

But it's such difference of mindset, viewpoint, and opinion which makes a message-board. I mean that's what makes it vibrant and real, are those differences, and the stimulation of thought they bring about along with the discussions they raise, as opposed to some stagnant fricken backwater in which everyone agrees with everyone else. It is valuable to have such fundamental disagreement of view, not only to help crystallize your own, but much more importantly so that you might try and see the other side, as they are equally fans too.

And one thing I will say for Sothron, and Hotlanta, and others of their divergent mindset, is they are absolutely Hawks fans, and all negativity and frustration aside (and honestly, who isn't f***ing frustrated here? I've been starving as a Hawks fan for 40+ years), they never take that out on their fellow fans,but rather just the team, the ownership, the direction, or whatever.