We are who we are

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Our current roster:

C - Horf

PF - Millsap

SF - Carroll/???

SG - KK

PG - Jeffery "Supes" Teague

6th - G - Lou

7th - F/C - Brand

8th - SG - Jenkins

9th - PG - Dennis Schröder

10th - F - Mike Scott / (SF - Demarre Carroll)

11th - F/C - Pero Antić

12th - C - Ayón

13th - PG - Mack / Player X

IR - Cunningham and Bebe

We could be a very dangerous team next season, but we could also end up in the lottery. Blue collar teams tend to make the playoffs though which IS WHAT WE ARE. The pipe dream of being a Big 3 team like NY, BOS, BKN, or MIA is dead floating face down in the water and that is not the plan anymore. As currently constructed, we are basically the Grizzlies + 3pt threats which is why I believe Horf/Sap will work... Because Gasol/Randolph works. A lot of Gasol's time on offense is spent in the high post while 6'9" Z-Bo man's the inside. Most of Gasol's points inside come from 2nd chance points, so we will need Horf to crash the boards out of the mid-range. Brand will give us the post play that Horford won't. Carroll has a lot of Tony Allen in him while having more size. Teague is similar to his AAU buddy Conley. We have Lou and KK.

We are still a few steps below the "elite" blue-collar teams like Indy and Chicago though. All four teams having great post playing PF's (Indy w/ West, Chicago w/ Boozer, Memphis w/ Z-Bo, and Atlanta w/ Millsap). All four teams are built for work and hustle. All four teams got the ball rolling with coaches that demand effort and energy (sip sip). What separates us from Chicago and Indy isn't a true center, but a respected, reliable scorer. Bulls have Rose and Indy has George. Lou will win us a few games from the bench but not as many as a Rose or George would. I believe we end up getting this scorer in 2014's deep draft and that player will not have to be LeBron, Durant, or Wiggins. I believe we will make the playoffs (6th-8th) and have a similar run as the Bulls in this past season's playoffs with every game being a dog fight. Then, with 2014's elite draft coming up, we will end up selecting the next Granger/George/Gay/JJ2//Pierce-type SF scorer in the middle of the draft.

Concluding my point, we will not end up having a Big 3, instant contender team that we were hoping for with D12, Horf, and CP3, but, as Ferry has put this team together, we are currently only one player away from being that next elite blue-collar team like Chicago or Indiana. Go Hawks!

[yungsta]

lol at saying we are the grizzlies. The grizzlies have multiple all nba defenders.

the difference between us and those elite blue collar teams is size, elite rebounding, and elite defense which we have none of.

[IllestPamfilis]

You're gonna have your half glass full guys and your guys who bitch and moan about everything on here. On the more realistic side 6th or 7th seed which kind of sucks IMO obviously because of next years draft. I believe Danny and Bud will right this ship and make us way more than the laughing stock we've always been. Some of us will go through the growing pains while the rest will jump ship and continue bitching and moaning.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Carroll is going to be our Tony Allen. They play defense similarly, have great hands, and hustle hard. Millsap will be our Z-Bo. I mean seriously we are the Grizzlies + shooters right now. We don't have the legit 7'0" that the rest have, but I believe that won't prove to be that big of an issue with Sap and Brand on the team and we have the coaching staff that will make these guys work and we have players who want to work. That really is all Memphis is and you can take it to the bank that Bud/Snyder are going to ride these guys to make plays. Memphis got to the WCF while being 26th in offense and without having a legit 3pt threat or wing scorer. Conley is their best 3pt shooter and he is only a 37% career 3pt shooter. We have the post playing PF that these teams have. The other blue-collar teams have players that understand and embrace their roles. Before we had mid-range shawty, broken Zaza, and Teddy Horford, and that's why we were 26th in rebounding last season. This year we have Millsap and Brand to fight and get us rebounds. Hard workers that do everything right; that is what blue-collar ball is. Our guys may not have the accolades that the others have, but that's because these teams are ahead of us in the process. Bulls and Pacers have had their coaches for 3 years now. Coach Bud will be a very similar coach. I expect us to be a better defensive team as well.

[Plainview1981]

Carroll is going to be our Tony Allen. They play defense similarly, have great hands, and hustle hard. Millsap will be our Z-Bo. I mean seriously we are the Grizzlies + shooters right now. We don't have the legit 7'0" that the rest have, but I believe that won't prove to be that big of an issue with Sap and Brand on the team and we have the coaching staff that will make these guys work and we have players who want to work. That really is all Memphis is and you can take it to the bank that Bud/Snyder are going to ride these guys to make plays. Memphis got to the WCF while being 26th in offense and without having a legit 3pt threat or wing scorer. Conley is their best 3pt shooter and he is only a 37% career 3pt shooter. We have the post playing PF that these teams have. The other blue-collar teams have players that understand and embrace their roles. Before we had mid-range shawty, broken Zaza, and Teddy Horford, and that's why we were 26th in rebounding last season. This year we have Millsap and Brand to fight and get us rebounds. Hard workers that do everything right; that is what blue-collar ball is. Our guys may not have the accolades that the others have, but that's because these teams are ahead of us in the process. Bulls and Pacers have had their coaches for 3 years now. Coach Bud will be a very similar coach. I expect us to be a better defensive team as well.

Al is not as good as Marc on the defensive end, and Millsap is not close to being as good of a rebounder as Zebo.

[yungsta]

Al is not as good as Marc on the defensive end, and Millsap is not close to being as good of a rebounder as Zebo.

not to mention neither of them are nearly as great as creating their own offense in the post

Edited August 4, 2013 by yungsta

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Al is not as good as Marc on the defensive end, and Millsap is not close to being as good of a rebounder as Zebo.

Sap and Z-Bo's per 36 are very similar and they are very comparable players. So is Marc and Horf's per 36. Only difference is Z-Bo has five more years experience than Sap and Gasol has two more inches and 15 more lbs than Horford and Gasol doesn't mind the sandpaper basketball while Horford is more of a finesse player. Other than that, these guys are VERY comparable. Do you think Gasol gets that DPOY award under Larry Drew?

[Plainview1981]

not to mention neither of them are nearly as great as creating their own offense in the post

Well, Al is the better offensive player.

[Plainview1981]

Sap and Z-Bo's per 36 are very similar and they are very comparable players. So is Marc and Horf's per 36. Only difference is Z-Bo has five more years experience than Sap and Gasol has two more inches and 15 more lbs than Horford and Gasol doesn't mind the sandpaper basketball while Horford is more of a finesse player. Other than that, these guys are VERY comparable. Do you think Gasol gets that DPOY award under Larry Drew?

Sap has never averaged 36 MPG and there has to be a reason why. He has been in the league for years now. The year he did play 34 MPG his rebounding wasn't all that stellar.

[yungsta]

Well, Al is the better offensive player.

nah he isnt good at creating his own offense he needs to be set up. He isnt a go to guy in the post or a guy that can create off the dribble. He is mostly a mid range shooter off of defensive breakdowns or pick and pop.

[AHF]

Sap and Z-Bo's per 36 are very similar and they are very comparable players. So is Marc and Horf's per 36. Only difference is Z-Bo has five more years experience than Sap and Gasol has two more inches and 15 more lbs than Horford and Gasol doesn't mind the sandpaper basketball while Horford is more of a finesse player. Other than that, these guys are VERY comparable. Do you think Gasol gets that DPOY award under Larry Drew?

Per 36 numbers don't measure defense. That is the big difference between Gasol/Randolph and Horford/Millsap. Offensively, I think they will be pretty similar in productivity. Defensively is where the gap is significant and a big part of that is size and strength.

The Memphis guys have roughly 4 inches and 30 pounds on Atlanta's frontcourt.

The other big difference is defensive ability at the wings. We are really comparing last year's Grizzlies who had Tony Allen. Our best defensive wing is a role player who got a career high 16 mpg last season with only Marvin in front of him.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Sap has never averaged 36 MPG and there has to be a reason why. He has been in the league for years now. The year he did play 34 MPG his rebounding wasn't all that stellar.

The per 36 stat is just a comparison stat that shows what a player's stats would be if every player played the same amount of minutes. Z-Bo averaged 32 mpg while Millsap was at 27. Millsap shared minutes with Favors while Z-Bo had no one behind him and has relied on for most of Memphis's points.

nah he isnt good at creating his own offense he needs to be set up. He isnt a go to guy in the post or a guy that can create off the dribble. He is mostly a mid range shooter off of defensive breakdowns or pick and pop.

Gasol is that player you just descirbed. He can shoot, but a lot of his points come from garbage 2nd chance points and dump offs from guards. Horf gets a lot of his points the same way. Horf can be good in the post when he actually goes down there and sets up. It's Horford's lack of physicality that keeps him out of the post and that is why I think Brand was brought in.

[Plainview1981]

nah he isnt good at creating his own offense he needs to be set up. He isnt a go to guy in the post or a guy that can create off the dribble. He is mostly a mid range shooter off of defensive breakdowns or pick and pop.

Even after Rudy Gay was traded Gasol failed to score 15PPG on a team with limited offensive scoring options. Zebo is basically the only scorer Memphis has now.

Even if you were to say Gasol has more offensive skills, if it doesn't show up in the production it really doesn't matter a whole lot. Sheed had more tools as a scorer than Shaq, but who really cared since Shaq was a 25PPG scorer and Sheed was a 17PPG scorer?

Edited August 4, 2013 by Hotlanta1981

[Plainview1981]

The per 36 stat is just a comparison stat that shows what a player's stats would be if every player played the same amount of minutes. Z-Bo averaged 32 mpg while Millsap was at 27. Millsap shared minutes with Favors while Z-Bo had no one behind him and has relied on for most of Memphis's points.

Gasol is that player you just descirbed. He can shoot, but a lot of his points come from garbage 2nd chance points and dump offs from guards. Horf gets a lot of his points the same way. Horf can be good in the post when he actually goes down there and sets up. It's Horford's lack of physicality that keeps him out of the post and that is why I think Brand was brought in.

Like I said, even the year Millsap played 34MPG it didn't translate into big rebounding numbers. Yeah, it's only one year, but there is no evidence that actually suggests that Millsap is as good of a rebounder. We haven't seen Millsap pull down big rebounding numbers even in his best years. Millsap is basically an 8RPG player and Zebo is basically good for 11RPG player.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Hotlanta1981

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

The other big difference is defensive ability at the wings. We are really comparing last year's Grizzlies who had Tony Allen. Our best defensive wing is a role player who got a career high 16 mpg last season with only Marvin in front of him.

Last season we didn't have Tony Allen. Closest player we had was Deshawn who only played 56 games for us because of his knees. We have Carroll this year whose game is comparable to Allen's. Carroll has some of the best hands in the league, guards well, and hustles just like Allen. I think with minutes Carroll will be able to contribute more. The man has only averaged 13 mpg in an average of 43 games per season. I recognize that Allen is the better player at his position than Carroll currently, but I believe that Carroll is that dog that this team needs and will be the guy that we put on LeBron.

[Diesel]

A lot of what we are right now is unknown. However, this is what we know. IF we are to be successful, we will have to get good numbers from Lou and Teague. Sap and Horf are similar in this one respect, neither of them can carry the scoring load because neither of them has a goto move. I think Sap is actually going to be a bit better when it comes to shooting but you can't rely on that. If we play PNR, Teague is going to have to stand out. He's going to have to be a threat to score and a great passer in it. Lou has to come off injury and put up at least 16 a night. The question of DMC and KK comes down to matchup. Nothing more nothing less. I still believe we need a Sg starter. I would take a used to be star if he's cheap and knows what he's doing. Give me Rip Halmilton for the league minimum. I would make him my starter.

[sturt]

Beginning to think DF might actually consider David Lighty to be a contender for, not just a roster slot, but to share some starts with the others... definitely fits the blue collar theme of so much of the rest of the roster. http://www.fearthesword.com/2013/7/24/4552642/nba-summer-league-david-lighty-ohio-state-sacramento-kings Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Edited August 4, 2013 by sturt

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

A lot of what we are right now is unknown. However, this is what we know. IF we are to be successful, we will have to get good numbers from Lou and Teague. Sap and Horf are similar in this one respect, neither of them can carry the scoring load because neither of them has a goto move. I think Sap is actually going to be a bit better when it comes to shooting but you can't rely on that. If we play PNR, Teague is going to have to stand out. He's going to have to be a threat to score and a great passer in it. Lou has to come off injury and put up at least 16 a night. The question of DMC and KK comes down to matchup. Nothing more nothing less. I still believe we need a Sg starter. I would take a used to be star if he's cheap and knows what he's doing. Give me Rip Halmilton for the league minimum. I would make him my starter.

I completely agree D. I agree Sap and Horf are not the guys that should be relied upon to carry a team and I agree that we are still a starter away from being great. We just don't have that go to scorer, but neither does Memphis. I believe we will find that scorer in 2014, but will have to make due with Lou, Teague, Horf, and Sap for the time being. I'd take Rip on a one-year vet min. I feel the biggest difference between this Hawks team and pass Hawks teams is Coach Bud. He will expect every ounce of juice to be squeezed from the orange. Memphis was number 1 in points allowed while being 26th in points scored. Hawks were 13th in both categories. I believe the biggest difference between the two teams last season was toughness and having players buy-in to their roles and putting out hustle and work. Smoove leaving is addition by subtraction and replacing him with a guy as apt at his position as Millsap is the icing on the cake.

[NBASupes]

lol, Conley is superior to Jeff to the point where it's not even funny. Conley is one of the best NBA players in the league and Jeff is average with good talent. No comparison.

Millsap and Horford doesn't equal Gasol and Z-Bo. While Z-Bo is on the down, Gasol is one of the best centers in the NBA and they play close to the basket. While I like Horf more than everyone on BOTH teams, unless we start Dennis, none of this will even matter.

The Grizz are build for the playoffs and they are a playoff team in the NBA. The Hawks are built for medcroity and would get killed by everyone in the playoffs. One team is a clown. The other were in the WCF last year.

Edited August 4, 2013 by nbasupes40retired

[Plainview1981]

lol, Conley is superior to Jeff to the point where it's not even funny. Conley is one of the best NBA players in the league and Jeff is average with good talent. No comparison.

Millsap and Horford doesn't equal Gasol and Z-Bo. While Z-Bo is on the down, Gasol is one of the best centers in the NBA and they play close to the basket. While I like Horf more than everyone on BOTH teams, unless we start Dennis, none of this will even matter.

The Grizz are build for the playoffs and they are a playoff team in the NBA. The Hawks are built for medcroity and would get killed by everyone in the playoffs. One team is a clown. The other were in the WCF last year.

Memphis has done reached their peak as a team and that's with banged up playoff teams in the west. The Grizzlies have went as far as they will go. They're like the late 90's Hawks in some ways. That team wasn't built for the playoffs either despite having good defense. Despite their defense and effort they will lose to a healthy Durant/Westbrook.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Hotlanta1981