NFL QB top ten...

[EazyRoc]

I didn't say Tanny has proved anything, but neither has Luck nor Cam. I'm just saying I'd take Tanny or Luck over Cam every day of the week.Btw Miami has maybe the worst starting oline of them all, no running game and we lost our TE for the year. So don't give me a sob story for a QB with a stud receiver and set of RBs.

Luck took his team to the playoffs.

[Admin]

Luck took his team to the playoffs.

It wasn't exactly a great accomplishment and that was more due to the ChuckStrong and Arians coaching. They won't be anywhere near as good this year without Arians and that ChuckStrong motivation, book it.

With that said, I think Luck is an outstanding young QB and he's my favorite of all the young QB's, but at this point he hasn't proven anything.

[EazyRoc]

Arian and Chuck didn't play QB on that talentless team. Yes, they might not make it with the Chiefs getting better. However, its unfair to downplay his accomplishments when among the rookie QBs last year he had the least to work with in every aspect and managed to win way more games than any pundit predicted.

[Admin]

Arian and Chuck didn't play QB on that talentless team. Yes, they might not make it with the Chiefs getting better. However, its unfair to downplay his accomplishments when among the rookie QBs last year he had the least to work with in every aspect and managed to win way more games than any pundit predicted.

Talentless? Their defense was right there in yards per game with the Falcons and they had a pair of bookend DE's and good CB's. Then on offense you've got Reggie Wayne who's still a stud, an extremely talented rookie WR in TY Hilton, 2 very talented young TE's and a decent running game. It's absolutely laughable that you think the Colts had less to work with than the Miami Dolphins who had Anthony Fasano at TE, Brian Hartline and Davone Bess at WR and Reggie Bush at RB and a FB who'd been out of football and was bagging at a grocery store and is once again this year out of FB. Tanny and Weeden had far and away the least to work with among the rookie QBs from last year and it's not even close.

Oh and week 1, at home against a bad Raiders team, the Colts had 90 yards less than their season average from last year and only put up 21 points. Their offense was 10th ranked last year and 26th so far this year. If you think that's not about Arians then take a look at Arizona, who were 32nd in offense last year and 10th this year with Arians taking over.

[Diesel]

About Cam...

His rookie season:

He threw for 4,051 yards, ran for 706 yards, combined for 35 total touchdowns.

He had a sophomore slump...

He threw for 3869 yards, ran for 741 yards, combined for 27 total touchdowns.

Wilson through for 3118 yards and rand for 475 yards last year.

yet. Somebody said I'll take Wilson in Carolina's team over cam with Seattle's team and both teams would go in opposite directions? YEAH.. Right.

When you see that Seattle has the best defense, the best offensive and defensive lines this side of San Fran and good receivers and tightends and a RB that nobody would turn away... PLEASE....

[EazyRoc]

Talentless? Their defense was right there in yards per game with the Falcons and they had a pair of bookend DE's and good CB's. Then on offense you've got Reggie Wayne who's still a stud, an extremely talented rookie WR in TY Hilton, 2 very talented young TE's and a decent running game. It's absolutely laughable that you think the Colts had less to work with than the Miami Dolphins who had Anthony Fasano at TE, Brian Hartline and Davone Bess at WR and Reggie Bush at RB and a FB who'd been out of football and was bagging at a grocery store and is once again this year out of FB. Tanny and Weeden had far and away the least to work with among the rookie QBs from last year and it's not even close. Oh and week 1, at home against a bad Raiders team, the Colts had 90 yards less than their season average from last year and only put up 21 points. Their offense was 10th ranked last year and 26th so far this year. If you think that's not about Arians then take a look at Arizona, who were 32nd in offense last year and 10th this year with Arians taking over.

Yes because the Falcons defense is great and the strength of the team. His offensive line was terrible. Reggie Wayne isnt a stud, but a very good receiver. Arizona finally has a. solid QB which probably had more to do with their success than Arians. Oh yeah, did the Dolphins make the playoffs ? Or did they post a losing record despite having more Pro Bowl players than the talent filled Colts ? PS Weeden has a great offensive line and great RB which gives him the edge over Luck as far as I'm concerned. He, too, missed the playoffs. Edited September 12, 2013 by EazyRoc

[EazyRoc]

Also Luck threw twice as many touchdowns as Tannehill and actually threw more touchdowns than picks. He made the Pro Bowl his first season ( threw for over 4000 yards), but to you he hasn't proven anything ? Either your standards are unrealistically high for rookie QBs or you have something against Luck. You could also be too prideful to admit that you were wrong too. Especially when you might be the only man in America who would have drafted Tannehill higher than Luck if you were a GM.

[Admin]

About Cam...

His rookie season:

He threw for 4,051 yards, ran for 706 yards, combined for 35 total touchdowns.

He had a sophomore slump...

He threw for 3869 yards, ran for 741 yards, combined for 27 total touchdowns.

Wilson through for 3118 yards and rand for 475 yards last year.

yet. Somebody said I'll take Wilson in Carolina's team over cam with Seattle's team and both teams would go in opposite directions? YEAH.. Right.

When you see that Seattle has the best defense, the best offensive and defensive lines this side of San Fran and good receivers and tightends and a RB that nobody would turn away... PLEASE....

And what has Cam done since that unlikely rookie season??

[Admin]

Yes because the Falcons defense is great and the strength of the team. His offensive line was terrible. Reggie Wayne isnt a stud, but a very good receiver. Arizona finally has a. solid QB which probably had more to do with their success than Arians. Oh yeah, did the Dolphins make the playoffs ? Or did they post a losing record despite having more Pro Bowl players than the talent filled Colts ?PS Weeden has a great offensive line and great RB which gives him the edge over Luck as far as I'm concerned. He, too, missed the playoffs.

You might want to go back and look because you're mistaken. Wayne is a borderline hall of fame WR and still had 106 receptions last year and had 8 for nearly 100 yards in week 1 this year.

Funny that Carson Palmer couldn't do anything for the Raiders, but now he's the type of QB who can turn an offense around on a dime? Sure he's better than what they had but the credit for their improvement is rightfully being given to Arians, who BTW won NFL Coach of the Year last year.

You know that Luck and the Colts played Miami in Indy last year, right? And Indy won at the very end of the game and only won because of broken coverage. Tannehill beat Russell Wilson last year. Tannehill had the Dolphins within 7 points late in the 4th quarter in San Francisco last year until the defense collapsed. But you're radically overselling the Dolphins, a team that's made the playoffs once in the past decade, and underselling the Colts, a team who've won a ton of games in the past decade and still had a lot of players leftover from their SuperBowl run.

Haha yeah Weeden has a GREAT offensive line? Sure, maybe that's why Miami knocked him down 17 times in week 1 and sacked him 6 times and forced 3 INTs. His RB is great too, that's why he had 47 yards rushing on 3.6 per carry against Miami running behind that great Oline!

Sorry but you're really out of your element here. I'm not even sure the point you're trying to argue anyway as I already said earlier that Luck is my favorite young QB of the group.

[Admin]

Also Luck threw twice as many touchdowns as Tannehill and actually threw more touchdowns than picks. He made the Pro Bowl his first season ( threw for over 4000 yards), but to you he hasn't proven anything ? Either your standards are unrealistically high for rookie QBs or you have something against Luck. You could also be too prideful to admit that you were wrong too. Especially when you might be the only man in America who would have drafted Tannehill higher than Luck if you were a GM.

Again, look at the passing options that Luck has vs what Miami had. You think Miami decided to spent 85 million or whatever it was on Mike Wallace, Brandon Gibson, Brian Hartline and Dustin Keller because they had good passing options? Come on man And please stop with this nonsense, nowhere did I say I'd draft Tannehill over Luck. In fact, I said...

With that said, I think Luck is an outstanding young QB and he's my favorite of all the young QB's, but at this point he hasn't proven anything.

[EazyRoc]

You might want to go back and look because you're mistaken. Wayne is a borderline hall of fame WR and still had 106 receptions last year and had 8 for nearly 100 yards in week 1 this year. Funny that Carson Palmer couldn't do anything for the Raiders, but now he's the tpe of QB who can turn an offense around on a dime? Sure he's better than what they had but the credit for their improvement is rightfully being given to Arians, who BTW won NFL Coach of the Year last year. You know that Luck and the Colts played Miami in Indy last year, right? And Indy won at the very end of the game and only won because of broken coverage. Tannehill beat Russell Wilson last year. Tannehill had the Dolphins within 7 points late in the 4th quarter in San Francisco last year until the defense collapsed. But you're radically overselling the Dolphins, a team that's made the playoffs once in the past decade, and underselling the Colts, a team who've won a ton of games in the past decade and still had a lot of players leftover from their SuperBowl run. Haha yeah Weeden has a GREAT offensive line? Sure, maybe that's why Miami knocked him down 17 times in week 1 and sacked him 6 times and forced 3 INTs. His RB is great too, that's why he had 47 yards rushing on 3.6 per carry against Miami running behind that great Oline! Sorry but you're really out of your element here. I'm not even sure the point you're trying to argue anyway as I already said earlier that Luck is my favorite young QB of the group.

Again very good, but not a great receiver. Carson Palmer is by far their best QB since Warner and you know it. Why play dumb ? Why bring up a bunch of Dolphin losses like its going to change the fact that they lost more than they won ? If if was a fifth I'd be drunk. You use one game to discredit the Browns good line and really good RB. lol whatever. The point was that YOU said Luck hadn't proven anything yet (whatever the hell that means to you) . Again, your opinion is silly at best and to defend it is even more asinine. Edited September 12, 2013 by EazyRoc

[EazyRoc]

I misread what you said in relation to Tannehill over Luck.

[Admin]

Again very good, but not a great receiver. Carson Palmer is by far their best QB since Warner and you know it. Why play dumb ? Why bring up a bunch of Dolphin losses like its going to change the fact that they lost more than they won ? If if was a fifth I'd be drunk. You use one game to discredit the Browns good line and really good RB. lol whatever. The point was that YOU said Luck hadn't proven anything yet (whatever the hell that means to you) . Again, your opinion is silly at best and to defend it is even more asinine.

Yeah there's lots of not great receivers going into or in the hall of fame... Who's the one playing dumb here and refusing to see that the Colts were far better with Arians last year than they are without him. The Cards are far better with Arians this year than they were without him. Arians won coach of the year and he wasn't even the head coach. But you refuse to acknowledge that. You pump up Carson Palmer like he's something special but he hasn't been a good QB in 5 years or so. But sure, go ahead and give him the credit for the Cardinals success. What's your reasoning for why the Colts offense was better with Arians than without?? Is it the great Raiders defense that held them down? You know, the team who had the 3rd pick in the draft this year. I mean being held to 90 yards less than your season last year, at home, to a team that won 4 games last year. Pretty damn sad.

Oh and I don't need to use 1 game to justify the Browns line being poor. They gave up the 8th highest amount of QB hits last year at 83, interestingly tied with the Falcons, and I never hear you guys saying the Falcons have a great line.

Again, what HAS Luck proven? That he can take a team with the weakest schedule in the league, a team who only 1 year prior had been in the Super Bowl, and get them 11 wins and an early playoff exit? Wow, impressive! Now I know you're somehow going to try and spin this to say what has Miami or Tannehill done so I'll save you the trouble and say I am fully aware that Miami was 7-9 last year because of their kicking blowing 3 wins with misses at the ends of games and OT and I'm fully aware Tannehill had an average at best season last year for a team who was pitifully built on offense. And finally I'll say again that I think Luck is the best young QB in football. But we'll see who comes out on top when Miami goes into Indy and wipes up the Colts this weekend.

[jy23]

About Cam...His rookie season:He threw for 4,051 yards, ran for 706 yards, combined for 35 total touchdowns. He had a sophomore slump...He threw for 3869 yards, ran for 741 yards, combined for 27 total touchdowns. Wilson through for 3118 yards and rand for 475 yards last year. yet. Somebody said I'll take Wilson in Carolina's team over cam with Seattle's team and both teams would go in opposite directions? YEAH.. Right. When you see that Seattle has the best defense, the best offensive and defensive lines this side of San Fran and good receivers and tightends and a RB that nobody would turn away... PLEASE....

I see you conveniently left out the fact that Wilson threw over 30 tds last year in his rookie year. Yes Seattle ha lynch but like I said Carolina has a trio of backs that are just as good. Carolina's front 7 is top 3 in the league. Steve smith is way better than anything Russell has in Seattle. Cam gives games away. Defend him as much as you want truth is truth

[Admin]

I see you conveniently left out the fact that Wilson threw over 30 tds last year in his rookie year. Yes Seattle ha lynch but like I said Carolina has a trio of backs that are just as good. Carolina's front 7 is top 3 in the league. Steve smith is way better than anything Russell has in Seattle. Cam gives games away. Defend him as much as you want truth is truth

Cam blames everyone but himself too. He thinks that Chudzinski was trying to create a reel for his promotion vs trying to win games last year. Well the 7 points they put up against the Seahawks sure didn't look like their new OC is any better. But no it's not Cams fault.

[Diesel]

And what has Cam done since that unlikely rookie season??

He has hit that sophomore slump that most rookies hit. These too will hit it. But more importantly, look at what he has done with what he had. Compared to others.

[Diesel]

I see you conveniently left out the fact that Wilson threw over 30 tds last year in his rookie year. Yes Seattle ha lynch but like I said Carolina has a trio of backs that are just as good. Carolina's front 7 is top 3 in the league. Steve smith is way better than anything Russell has in Seattle. Cam gives games away. Defend him as much as you want truth is truth

The myths just keep on coming...

His rookie year, Williams and Stewart combined for 99.9 yards per game. 12 TDs.

Last year, Williams and Stewart combined for 83.4 yards per game. 9 TDs.

Let's look...

Last year...

Alfred Morris ran for 100.8 yards per game.

Marshawn Lynch rand for 99.4 yards per game.

Also.

Steve Smith is not a top ten receiver.... He's the only guy that Cam Newton has though.

Take home message... just because Cam has two guys who can run behind him, doesn't mean that they are doing anything to take the pressure off of him.

Moreover, as a team, Carolina has no all pros and no pro bowlers. Even Miami has Cameron Wake. Even Indy has Reggie Wayne and Mathis. I'm not even going to talk about Ron Rivera who may not see week 4 this year.

[jy23]

What myth? Does duo look like trio to you? Add 7 more tds to that total bc of mike Tolbert. You're picking and choosing what u want to talk about. Who said Steve smith was top 10? I said he's better than anything Wilson has....is that a myth as well? Now let's go to your next point....Carolina gave up just over 6 ypg in the run game and under 20 ypg in the passing game more than Seattle. They had more sacks as a team and scored the same amount of points as a defense but yeah seattles line is so much better than Carolina's....now that's a myth. They gave up about 7 more points per game but after looking at the defensive stats what could that be attributed to? Oh I know....Cams turnovers!!!! Russell Wilson has more game winnibg drives in his rookie year than Cam has in 2 years.....5 compared to 2. Like I've already stated Carolina has a top 3 front 7 and a trio of running backs that can get it done with a great number one receiver and Greg Olsen is better than zach miller, or is that a myth? Compare 843 yds and 5 tds to 396 and 3 tds...but yeah keep em coming diesel.

[Diesel]

What myth? Does duo look like trio to you? Add 7 more tds to that total bc of mike Tolbert. You're picking and choosing what u want to talk about. Who said Steve smith was top 10? I said he's better than anything Wilson has....is that a myth as well?Now let's go to your next point....Carolina gave up just over 6 ypg in the run game and under 20 ypg in the passing game more than Seattle. They had more sacks as a team and scored the same amount of points as a defense but yeah seattles line is so much better than Carolina's....now that's a myth. They gave up about 7 more points per game but after looking at the defensive stats what could that be attributed to? Oh I know....Cams turnovers!!!!Russell Wilson has more game winnibg drives in his rookie year than Cam has in 2 years.....5 compared to 2. Like I've already stated Carolina has a top 3 front 7 and a trio of running backs that can get it done with a great number one receiver and Greg Olsen is better than zach miller, or is that a myth? Compare 843 yds and 5 tds to 396 and 3 tds...but yeah keep em coming diesel.

Better than anything Wilson has. He's the only thing that Cam has. Wilson has Harvin, Rice, Tate and Baldwin. He also has Kearse and Harper. His deck is stacked. Cam has Steve Smith and Olsen... that's all. Again, when you look at what both guys have to play with, it's easy to see why Seattle wins and Carolina doesn't.

[Admin]

Better than anything Wilson has. He's the only thing that Cam has. Wilson has Harvin, Rice, Tate and Baldwin. He also has Kearse and Harper. His deck is stacked. Cam has Steve Smith and Olsen... that's all. Again, when you look at what both guys have to play with, it's easy to see why Seattle wins and Carolina doesn't.

Seattle does have better overall receivers but what I want to know is what's changed in Carolina since Cams rookie season? Has his receiving group changed since then? Not that I remember. His running game may be better now than it was but its at least the same. So have defenses figured Cam out or has he simply been discovered to be overrated?