Built to win, Built to tank, or Built to trade?

[ATLHawks3]

Another wishy-washy thread by so-called Hawks fans. Last year everything was about the possibility of getting Dwight and Chris now everything is about the possibility of tanking to get one of maybe four players out of 60. Very narrow minded approaches.

What other ways can we acquire a superstar? Trade? Unlikely. Free-Agency? Doubtful. Drafting? Likely.

[JTB]

The team is built to win. Not win big, but just win period. The moves we made were obviously not meant to tank us. DF intended to build a competitive core around Horford and that's what he did. He's taking two huge gambles on Horford though... In the first place, he's gambling that Horford is capable of putting the team on it's back. In the second, he's gambling that he can build a contender around Horford in 3 years or less (because our boy is a RFA in 2016). Personally, I don't see that happening without a miraculous trade. The playoffs will not bear any fruit for us - not any more than it has in the past 30 or so years. What "good" players are going to put us over the top? And what do we have to give up for them? I don't know why I keep throwing my opinion in on this, but the best option for this team right now is to REBUILD. Especially in a strong year like this one - with assets that we can move to REALLY get a jump start on the process.

This makes the most sense and it's exactly what ferry is doing! The team it's built to see if they can win with horford and Teague as our go to guys, our alphas, our top dogs, our next stars....if that fails the team has been set up to make trades!It's very obvious that's what ferry is doing. He's going wait and see what Teague and horford are all about and if he's not impressed he's going to dump them for as much value as he can then start the rebuild process from there.Now many on here don't believe in Teague or that horford can't really step it way up...those of you who thinks that may be right but like ferry we have to sit back and watch...if course just out of prediction there is a time limit to this sit back and watch stuff and I believe Teague and horford are on the clock starting tonight until the end of January.Strap up your boots boys and prove something to us! (Horford, Teague)

[Wretch]

I was going to bow out to except for that last line. lol. So if we stay in the playoffs and in a few years we haven't won a championship then i guess many will feel 'right'? But since we previously tanked and had about 6 or 7 lottery picks and still failed to build a contender that isn't a failure of the process but simple a failure of BK?

You're right though. We aren't going to settle this so let's play ball!!!!!!!

We didn't completely fail under Billy Knight. After all, we are riding on the back of a #3 pick right now..a pick that, ironically, we won. We had the assets when we were rebuilding and drafting in the lottery, but we made some very bad mistakes that were easily avoidable

#1) In 2004 we should have let the team go. Instead we "fought" for meaningless wins and it cost us our drafting position. We don't know how that would have turned out but we do know...

#2) We picked the wrong players when we finally did start picking and we made matters worse by...

#3) Holding onto those players for too long. In doing that, we let the great "P-Word" (potential) slide off of them and we kept this team stagnant by not shaking up the core.

You can't win like that no matter what route you take to rebuild. The sad part is, most of us could see these mistakes as they unfolded - just like some of us are saying right now that it's time to rebuild.

We failed NOT because we decided to rebuild through the draft, but because we mismanaged that entire rebuild about as bad as a franchise could possibly mismanage a rebuild.

In that sense we are close to where Boston was when they moved Jefferson for Garnet. Their big three before that trade was Pierce, Rondo, Jefferson. We have Horford, Teague, and Millsap. Add in two mid 1st round draft picks some teams could be high on in Schröder and Nogueira. If the value is there, we could throw in 2014 and 2016 picks. Or we could move one of our players for a pick/picks.

The key is can we find a team that values one or more of our players/assets as much as the TWolves valued Jefferson. Value is definitely in the eyes of the beholder. I think this is what Ferry is building. A team that can win; a team that has trade-able assets and contracts should a deal present itself.

We are not where Boston was. For one, Jefferson was a young stud back then with a lot of potential. He was also picked just outside of the lottery and by all accounts should have been a lottery pick - on the basis that he was a HSSR (who were all scouted poorly back then) and that Boston was a TERRIBLE team that year in a TERRIBLE Eastern Conference. They were 10 games under .500 and by all accounts should have been a lottery team.

If you're honest and you put Jefferson and Boston's #5 pick (Jeff Green) in the right context, you can't say that we're in a similar situation. I like Dennis, but he isn't anything but a prospect right now - with holes in his game that need to be fixed IF he is going to be more than a bench warmer or a Euro-league NBA washout.

...and Paul Pierce is a future Hall of Famer. No, we're not like Boston. We do have assets to move around, and I could see teams interested in what we have. The thing is...outside of Horford, I don't see anything that's going to create anything more than a lateral move for us.

[Wretch]

This makes the most sense and it's exactly what ferry is doing! The team it's built to see if they can win with horford and Teague as our go to guys, our alphas, our top dogs, our next stars....if that fails the team has been set up to make trades!It's very obvious that's what ferry is doing. He's going wait and see what Teague and horford are all about and if he's not impressed he's going to dump them for as much value as he can then start the rebuild process from there.Now many on here don't believe in Teague or that horford can't really step it way up...those of you who thinks that may be right but like ferry we have to sit back and watch...if course just out of prediction there is a time limit to this sit back and watch stuff and I believe Teague and horford are on the clock starting tonight until the end of January.Strap up your boots boys and prove something to us! (Horford, Teague)

You know what? JT, I can actually agree with you on that. I ****HOPE**** this is the plan and I hope that he's willing to rebuild if we can't accomplish anything with this core he's set up. I guess I'm just irritated because personally...I see the futility in it. Like Diesel was saying...we have nice guys. But they all have weaknesses. They're all complimentary with one guy (Horford) being a "big 3" quality as a #2 or #3.

We'll see if Horf can be more. Personally, I think his ceiling is that #2.5 guy. Great as a PART of your core, not so great as the ENGINE in your core.

[Buzzard]

We are not where Boston was. For one, Jefferson was a young stud back then with a lot of potential. He was also picked just outside of the lottery and by all accounts should have been a lottery pick - on the basis that he was a HSSR (who were all scouted poorly back then) and that Boston was a TERRIBLE team that year in a TERRIBLE Eastern Conference. They were 10 games under .500 and by all accounts should have been a lottery team.

If you're honest and you put Jefferson and Boston's #5 pick (Jeff Green) in the right context, you can't say that we're in a similar situation. I like Dennis, but he isn't anything but a prospect right now - with holes in his game that need to be fixed IF he is going to be more than a bench warmer or a Euro-league NBA washout.

...and Paul Pierce is a future Hall of Famer. No, we're not like Boston. We do have assets to move around, and I could see teams interested in what we have. The thing is...outside of Horford, I don't see anything that's going to create anything more than a lateral move for us.

I was hoping you would fire back about Jefferson. He was the 15th pick. Green the 5th pick.

Again, value is in the eyes of the beholder. I guarantee you there are GMs out there at the time of the Garnet trade who thought the TWolves got fleeced. Others who thought Green 5th pick and Jefferson were great gets for a aging all-star.

Horford 3rd pick, Teague 19th pick, Nogueira 16th pick Schröder 17th pick, our two picks in 2014 and 2016. Millsap, Lou, and Korver contracts. We are a borderline 6 to 8th seed with some very, very good assets. Its just a matter of finding deals that work our way.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Buzzard

[JTB]

You know what? JT, I can actually agree with you on that. I ****HOPE**** this is the plan and I hope that he's willing to rebuild if we can't accomplish anything with this core he's set up. I guess I'm just irritated because personally...I see the futility in it. Like Diesel was saying...we have nice guys. But they all have weaknesses. They're all complimentary with one guy (Horford) being a "big 3" quality as a #2 or #3. We'll see if Horf can be more. Personally, I think his ceiling is that #2.5 guy. Great as a PART of your core, not so great as the ENGINE in your core.

Well personally I think we have the skills without the attitude but I'm hoping Teague, horford and crew prove me wrong!It would be great for Teague to average 18 and 8...horford 18 and 10...milsap 15 and 8...Lou 15pts...Korver 10-15 pts a game...DMC 8-10 pts, 7 Rebs, 2 steals....but hey I'm just wishful thinking here! LOL

[Guest]

Trade everyone besides Horford and Schröder...fake injuries to Horford to keep him out...let Dennis play a lot...TANK!!!

[Wretch]

I was hoping you would fire back about Jefferson. He was the 15th pick. Green the 5th pick.

Again, value is in the eyes of the beholder. I guarantee you there are GMs out there at the time of the Garnet trade who thought the TWolves got fleeced. Others who thought Green 5th pick and Jefferson were great gets for a aging all-star.

Horford 3rd pick, Teague 19th pick, Nogueira 16th pick Schröder 17th pick, our two picks in 2014 and 2016. Millsap, Lou, and Korver contracts. We are a borderline 6 to 8th seed with some very, very good assets. Its just a matter of finding deals that work our way.

I don't disagree with you. But I disagree that we are in the same place with the same kind of value.

The Celtics were 10 games below .500. 36-46. Most years, that's a lottery team. They were terrible. Jefferson was a high schooler and there were quite a few who slipped because they just weren't scouted properly. The point is, the Celtics were very near a lottery team and by all accounts picked up a guy that should have been a lottery pick. He was a young, stud, 7 footer...he was raw and he had potential. Teams really wanted him. Boston gave up a highly coveted prospect for an impact, All-Star veteran.

Who is highly coveted on THIS team?

They also gave up a lottery pick for another impact, All-Star veteran?

Where is our lottery pick?

They also had a franchise player and future HoF'er.

Who is that equivalent on our team?

The situations are just not comparable...except in the fact that they had assets and we have assets. Nobody is disputing that at all. But if you think that we're going to just pawn off Teague or Korver plus a few late 1st round draft picks...and get a couple of apex scorers the way Boston did, you are in for a "big bowl of cereal with no damn milk" kind of morning.

I don't see the parallel that you do. Sorry.

The Garnett trade worked for both teams at the time. In retrospect, you can call it what you want. If you look at it within the context of the time frame, it's a good deal for everyone involved. TBH, at the time, most of the people I remember talking with were like, "Wow...Boston just mortgaged their future." It was a gamble for BOSTON that paid off.

The 5th pick was a lottery pick and those pretty much have the same kind of value year in and year out - it could be DWade or it could be Shelden Williams; but it holds its value because that pick/player is an unknown with potential.

One other thing...

If you deal Horford, you change the whole game completely. Moving him means rebuilding and if you move Horford + anything else of substance (Teague/Millsap/Dennis), then you're blowing up the team and rebuilding. Which is essentially what I'm advocating.

[High5]

This is a team built to WIN games with TRADEable assets so we can TANK if necessary!

Well said.

[Nicholasp27]

If we had drafted cp3 instead of Marvin, we wouldn't have had any more high picks so no horfordWe woulda lost him like Nola did

[TheFuzz]

What other ways can we acquire a superstar? Trade? Unlikely. Free-Agency? Unlikely. Drafting? Unlikely.

Fixed that for you.

The advantage to the game Ferry is playing is he can adjust to what's coming to him. With so many movable contracts, we could easily tank if the season begins slipping away from us. If a trade comes up we can hop all over it. We'll have about $15M in cap next year to sign a FA.

[Bahamut]

Apparently, this team isn't built to rebound or protect the ball. I wish we'd have gotten Ellis after all.

[macdaddy]

Apparently, this team isn't built to rebound or protect the ball. I wish we'd have gotten Ellis after all.

Ellis had 7 turnovers though so wouldn't really help our protecting the ball. But he was lights out. We'll see.

[DJlaysitup]

Some teams have multiple options...much like some young ladies. NJNets are like the girl with the rich Daddy who says "Daddy can I have a big Diamond?"...and poof...he buys it for her.

LAL is like the Gorgeous pageant gal who gets a big rock for her engagement.

...but when you are the poor buck-toothed gal from Atlanta...you know you only got one option....you get in the car, drive down to that diamond mine in Arkansas, and start digging

[Gray Mule]

The simple answer to this poll:YES.