Dolf what's going on with your team?

[Admin]

I just love how everyone are supporting Incognito and I haven't heard anyone coming to the defense of Martin.

Martin, a 24-year-old second-year pro, was briefly hospitalized after he left the team and is now with his family in California.

Tannehill said he was shocked when Martin departed.

''It's tough for me, because you can't help a situation that you didn't know existed - that no one on this team knew existed,'' Tannehill said. ''We have a bunch of good guys in this locker room. To be put in a situation where everyone's attacking the locker room saying it's such a bad place, such a bad culture, no leadership to stand up and stop the situation - no one knew there was a situation to be stopped.''

Incognito's alleged harassment of Martin included voicemail and text messages that were racist and threatening, but several players said the two were close.

''If you had asked Jon Martin a week before who his best friend on the team was, he would have said Richie Incognito,'' Tannehill said. ''The first guy to stand up for Jonathan when anything went down on the field, any kind of tussle, Richie was the first guy there. When they wanted to hang out outside of football, who was together? Richie and Jonathan.''

Guard John Jerry said he never heard Incognito use the racist term included in one voicemail and wouldn't have objected anyway.

''I would have just laughed it off,'' Jerry said. ''I know the type of person he is, and I know he doesn't mean it that way. Everybody's got friends that when you're out, they say those type of things. It's never made a big deal.''

Incognito, 30, was kicked off his team at Nebraska, and has long had a reputation as one of the NFL's dirtiest players. But he has been universally praised by his teammates this week.

''Does he like to give guys a hard time? Yes. Does he like to pester guys and have fun? Yes,'' Tannehill said. ''But he brought a lot of laughter to this locker room, he brought a lot of cohesiveness to this locker room and he was the best teammate that I could ask for.''

For Martin, the final straw was a lunchroom prank at the team complex, and he then left the squad. Tannehill and Jerry said the same prank has been pulled on many other players.

Hijinks are especially common among the offensive linemen, Clabo said.

''We have a system of basically it's just a big joke, basically,'' he said. It helps camaraderie. It keeps things light in the room. Everyone participates. No one is exempt and so I don't see how ... we would all be guilty of bullying.''

[Admin]

Former Phin player on the OL breaks this whole story down and says exactly why Martin had to pay the 15k. The part that concerns me is where he said the coaching staff knows about everything going on in the locker room. This could end up costing the coaches and GM their jobs and the Dolphins could end up losing draft picks. This is very very bad for my team.http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/07/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-dolphins-lydon-murtha/

[Admin]

Yeah man it's gotten crazy! They're saying he's trying to implicate multiple players, coaches, management, etc. One media douche compared the Dolphins locker room to a prison yard. Now another girl has come out of the woodwork saying she was sexually "abused" by Richie at a Dolphins charity golf concert as he rubbed on her with his club and then grinded on her from behind. Then there's that Richie was leading the OL meetings and held them at strip clubs. Martin's agent said that our GM Ireland instructed him to tell Martin to punch Richie out after Martin had left the team and he first found out about the problem with Richie. It's just a complete media circus now and they're going after everybody. This could end up being something that completely changes the team all over one little pansy of a player who couldn't deal with sucking and being demoted to the right side of the line.

[Guest]

It's all fun and games until it's not.

Edited November 11, 2013 by JayBirdHawk

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

[Admin]

You know it's bad when Lions fans are bagging on you!

[DJlaysitup]

Dolfan posted:

"My feelings are that Richie said some things that are not acceptable. Talking about slapping Martin's mom, threatening to kill his family members, the 'racist' remarks, etc. That stuff goes way beyond simple hazing and joking around with teammates. Any of us who have played sports or been in the military know that you say some wild stuff to teammates sometimes but I think he took it too far. I highly doubt Richie will ever play for the Dolphins again and I don't think that Martin will either. I think the real problem here is that Martin is a "big weirdo" as they've called him from the beginning of his rookie season and he's soft as hell. He was brought up in an upper class family and I really don't think he's mentally fit for playing in the NFL"

Interesting..and I realize none of this is on you but...the guy got his family threatened with being killed, called a N__er, and his Mom was disrespected....and that MIGHT be going over the line? On what level of hell exactly is this line drawn?

If a guy who is smart and has smart parents can't play in the NFL due to a "mental deficiency"...maybe...just maybe...the inmates are in charge of the asylum and the NFL needs to look more inward than casting aspersions outwardly. (JMHO)

P.S. - I was 20 years in the Military and I never heard about any sh!t as crazy as this. If it had happened we would have sent the boy home with a D&D (Dishonorable Discharge). Best job you can get with a D&D is delivering firewood.

Edited November 15, 2013 by DJlaysitup

[Admin]

Dolfan posted:

"My feelings are that Richie said some things that are not acceptable. Talking about slapping Martin's mom, threatening to kill his family members, the 'racist' remarks, etc. That stuff goes way beyond simple hazing and joking around with teammates. Any of us who have played sports or been in the military know that you say some wild stuff to teammates sometimes but I think he took it too far. I highly doubt Richie will ever play for the Dolphins again and I don't think that Martin will either. I think the real problem here is that Martin is a "big weirdo" as they've called him from the beginning of his rookie season and he's soft as hell. He was brought up in an upper class family and I really don't think he's mentally fit for playing in the NFL"

Interesting..and I realize none of this is on you but...the guy got his family threatened with being killed, called a N__er, and his Mom was disrespected....and that MIGHT be going over the line? On what level of hell exactly is this line drawn?

If a guy who is smart and has smart parents can't play in the NFL due to a "mental deficiency"...maybe...just maybe...the inmates are in charge of the asylum and the NFL needs to look more inward than casting aspersions outwardly. (JMHO)

P.S. - I was 20 years in the Military and I never heard about any sh!t as crazy as this. If it had happened we would have sent the boy home with a D&D (Dishonorable Discharge). Best job you can get with a D&D is delivering firewood.

If you were in the military for 20 years and never went through anything like this then I'm not sure what military you were in, maybe coast guard? I spent 6 years as an Airborne Ranger in the Army and I went through hazing that would make this look like a walk in the park.

And you're conveniently ignoring where Martin sent text messages to Richie saying he was going to kill his family. And how he played the same pranks on other linemen that he pussed out about when they were done to him.

But the best part, and I'm guessing you won't be able to relate to this either, is that he's now claiming he has PTSD from his experience in Miami. And yeah guess what, as a guy who has a lot of friends who actually have PTSD from war I consider this to be disgusting and I'm hoping Martin gets in a real situation that might give him PTSD.

[Admin]

Martin is the one saying he's got PTSD. That's what is pissing me off as I've seen guys lives unravel from real PTSD, not this chicken shit locker room hazing that even Bryant McKinnie said much worse stuff went on in the locker room with the Ravens. It's disgusting and dishonorable to vets for him to make this claim when he was just as much a part of the bullying as anyone.

[Admin]

Look at how awful things are for this poor victim. Doesn't he look like someone who's been through hell with hazing and is now suffering from PTSD?

Martin walking in to meet with his attorney and the NFL today.

[Admin]

Yeah, maybe it is messed up that Martin claims to have PTSD but does not have it. But assuming that he does not have PTSD without knowing the details of what has gone on for him is too big of an assumption for me to make. On the chance that Martin does not have PTSD, do you really want to wish something as bad as PTSD on someone? I guess so, but that just seems a little harsh to me. I don't know many people with PTSD, so maybe this issue hits home for you more than it does for me.

This story still does not have me convinced one way or the other. Was Martin bullied? Was Richie a bully? You know what, I can't find any evidence for or against this shit so far. I hate to see people who make claims that Martin was bullied or that Richie is a bully since the evidence is so weak right now. But I am unwilling to assume there is no possibility that Martin was bullied or that Richie was a bully. Those could have happened.

I wish that demons from hell would come up, drag him to hell and rape him in every way possible for eternity. Is that as bad as PTSD? Because honestly he's humiliated the Dolphins franchise and may cost everyone in management and coaching their jobs and no telling how much money he's going to cost the owner and the league and players association. Oh and he's probably cost Richie Incognito his career. All because he wasn't man enough to deal with this internally.

When Bryant McKinnie says that the stuff that went on in the Miami locker room is nothing compared to the Ravens locker room and how Ray Lewis and Ed Reed and some of the other very intense Ravens interacted with each other it makes me firmly believe that all of this is a guy who grew up with 2 lawyers for parents not being able to handle being demoted to RT. I mean don't you think it's funny that his moment when he had too much was when we traded for McKinnie and he got moved to the right side? I literally have zero pity for this guy. When I was in the Rangers I was hung outside of a window in a sleeping bag, beaten, kept up for days on end, tattooed, had chewing tobacco put into my eyes to keep me awake and many other things I can't even mention. THAT is hazing. Not someone drunkenly leaving a voice mail that Martin himself shared with teammates and laughed about for weeks after.

Bottom line I'm sure compared to a typical workforce that Martin was "bullied" but despite what Ditka, Sharpe and the talking heads on ESPN want to say this type of behavior is typical for NFL locker rooms and Martin is just soft and couldn't handle it.

[Admin]

Also, did you know that Martin's mom has been one of the best workplace environment lawyers in the country for the past 20 years? Honestly I think this is being led by her and possibly her husband as well but Martin bears the blame for allowing this circus to happen.

[AHF]

I'm not sure that citing to Baltimore does too much when some of those guys seem taken aback by Incognito:

Incognito's reference to Martin as a "half-n-----" left Pollard so incensed that the safety said, "I get pissed off just hearing about that part." "If that [calling Martin a half-n*****] had happened in Baltimore, we probably would've approached Incognito and told him to stop because we would've needed Martin to help us win," Pollard said. "If that didn't work, we would've gone to [general manager] Ozzie Newsome and [head coach] John Harbaugh and tried to get him out of there. And if it didn't stop there -- and I'm not calling Incognito a punk -- then somebody would've put hands on him."

Personally, I am waiting to see where things fall after more time has passed and more facts have come out.

I suspect that a big part of this is that there is an ugly side to locker room culture across the league that is coming out with the finger pointed at Miami and Incognito as if they were the only ones. That isn't shocking if you saw the Saints scandal and thought they weren't the only team that ran a bounty-type of incentive/celebration system. Word got out about this particular case, the genie escaped from the bottle and other teams shut their mouths about anything specific to their team which leaves all the attention unfairly on Miami. I would guess there will be some new guidelines over locker room behavior coming out of this at the end of the day that will impact the entire league and make it a bit more sanitized than it is today.

[EazyRoc]

The fact is that they are professionals. This isn't high school/college ball or the military where things like loyalty and brotherhood matter. If a guy comes to work and gets treated like that he has the right to be upset. If he was physically assaulted, he could very well have PTSD.

[Admin]

The fact is that they are professionals. This isn't high school/college ball or the military where things like loyalty and brotherhood matter. If a guy comes to work and gets treated like that he has the right to be upset. If he was physically assaulted, he could very well have PTSD.

Funny but Mike Singletary and Lawrence Taylor couldn't disagree with you more strongly and those are guys I'd consider as the types I'd want setting up my lockerroom environment. And I'd also say that football in fact is as strong of a brotherhood as military and college ball so yeah loyalty and brotherhood go hand in hand.

Martin wouldn’t be allowed back in my locker room,” Taylor told the Daily News. “I understand Incognito may be a bad guy, but all that stuff should have stayed in the locker room. I don’t know if I would let Incognito back in the locker room either, but he would be allowed back in my locker room before the other guy would. They are texting each other like two women. I don’t understand that.

“If you are that sensitive and weak-minded, then find another profession,” he said. “That’s the way I feel about it. This is the NFL. This is football. This is not table tennis. This is not golf. I don’t know how you bully a 350-pound player.”

But yeah he looked like he was really suffering there laughing his fat lazy off Saturday during the Stanford - USC game. Nice to see the fans there enjoying how much of a baby he is.

[Guest]

The fact is that they are professionals. This isn't high school/college ball or the military where things like loyalty and brotherhood matter. If a guy comes to work and gets treated like that he has the right to be upset. If he was physically assaulted, he could very well have PTSD.

Aren't you supposed to make a good faith effort to bring the harassment to a supervisor's attention before you go to litigation? This case sounds like Martin did not do this.

[Admin]

I'm not sure that citing to Baltimore does too much when some of those guys seem taken aback by Incognito:

Incognito's reference to Martin as a "half-n-----" left Pollard so incensed that the safety said, "I get pissed off just hearing about that part." "If that [calling Martin a half-n*****] had happened in Baltimore, we probably would've approached Incognito and told him to stop because we would've needed Martin to help us win," Pollard said. "If that didn't work, we would've gone to [general manager] Ozzie Newsome and [head coach] John Harbaugh and tried to get him out of there. And if it didn't stop there -- and I'm not calling Incognito a punk -- then somebody would've put hands on him."

Personally, I am waiting to see where things fall after more time has passed and more facts have come out.

I suspect that a big part of this is that there is an ugly side to locker room culture across the league that is coming out with the finger pointed at Miami and Incognito as if they were the only ones. That isn't shocking if you saw the Saints scandal and thought they weren't the only team that ran a bounty-type of incentive/celebration system. Word got out about this particular case, the genie escaped from the bottle and other teams shut their mouths about anything specific to their team which leaves all the attention unfairly on Miami. I would guess there will be some new guidelines over locker room behavior coming out of this at the end of the day that will impact the entire league and make it a bit more sanitized than it is today.

I don't approve of the racial slur that he made either but I need to know context. According to the guys in the Miami locker room that type of language is commonplace and Martin himself engaged in racial slurs towards Richie and other players.

But yes I suspect this is very typical NFL locker room behavior and unfortunately Miami are being used as the poster child for it.

[Admin]

Aren't you supposed to make a good faith effort to bring the harassment to a supervisor's attention before you go to litigation? This case sounds like Martin did not do this.

That's what will hopefully come out in the next few weeks is whether or not he brought this up the chain and how high it went. I'm just hoping that the Miami coaches weren't ignoring this if it was a real issue. But my gut tells me that Martin realized he's not cut out for the NFL and the demotion to right tackle, which is when this whole thing kicked off, was too much for him and that's when his parents got involved and found a way to get him paid without having to play.

[Guest]

Thought I heard somewhere he took it to the GM and he told him to fight him?

Guess he's not a fighter.

Edited November 19, 2013 by JayBirdHawk

[Admin]

Thought I heard somewhere he took it to the GM and he told him to fight him?Guess he's not a fighter.

The report on that is questionable but it supposedly went that after Martin quit his agent called out GM who allegedly said Martin should confront Richie. That got twisted into he should have punched or fought him.I am not defending Richie here and based on these other stories coming out like the golf incident where he basically sexually humiliated a woman in public I really want him off my team. But at the end of the day my biggest complaint and issue I have is the manner in which Martin handled this issue and it just goes to illustrate how far this country has changed into the nobody looses everyone is a winner mentality.Like LT said, I don't know how you bully a 350 LB man and I will add to it a man who plays a violent contact sport. Be a man and handle someone mistreating you like a man!