Dolf what's going on with your team?

[HawkItus]

Man, all this and ya'll won last week. What do you know? Anything that is not readily being reported?

[Admin]

Man I have no idea what's really going on. Here are some things that are known:

Martin never made his problems with Richie known to anyone on our "leadership counsel" and never brought it to the attention of his coaches or management. He talked to Philbin a couple of times but just said he was having personal problems.

Martin was hazed as a rookie, the same that others were. However, at the rookie dinner he refused to help pay for it, as all rookies do to help keep the bill down. So this year he was "taxed" 15k by other vets on the o-line for their trip to Vegas and he was asked to come along but refused and just gave them the money.

Martin has participated in pranking and "hazing" other teammates and in fact one week before the incident where he lost it and walked away, he was part of the exact same prank on another of the lineman.

Richie's dad apparently joined by FinHeaven forums and put out some seriously harsh remarks about Martin and Pouncey being drug users and all sorts of other things. One of our members did some digging and discovered it was Richie's dad and then the story was picked up by Deadspin.

Richie is universally loved by his teammates and none of them are defending Martin, which I think is because of Martin's text last week that he doesn't blame any of his teammates and not to believe everything you read in the papers. Then the very next day his parents, who are both lawyers, filed a complaint to the league about the team.

My feelings are that Richie said some things that are not acceptable. Talking about slapping Martin's mom, threatening to kill his family members, the 'racist' remarks, etc. That stuff goes way beyond simple hazing and joking around with teammates. Any of us who have played sports or been in the military know that you say some wild stuff to teammates sometimes but I think he took it too far. I highly doubt Richie will ever play for the Dolphins again and I don't think that Martin will either. I think the real problem here is that Martin is a "big weirdo" as they've called him from the beginning of his rookie season and he's soft as hell. He was brought up in an upper class family and I really don't think he's mentally fit for playing in the NFL so I think that what he's trying to do is create a lawsuit type of situation that will protect his signing bonus and money already paid to him so that he doesn't end up like Ricky Williams having to basically play for free to payback his owed money.

[HawkItus]

Interesting. It is a very strange situation. I mean on one hand I understand bullying is the hot topic issue, but the media is really writing this story in a very slanted way toward Incognito? Is he considered a "good" player for you guys?

[Admin]

Interesting. It is a very strange situation. I mean on one hand I understand bullying is the hot topic issue, but the media is really writing this story in a very slanted way toward Incognito? Is he considered a "good" player for you guys?

He was in the Pro Bowl last year and has been one of the best LGs in football for years. But yeah the media are seriously spinning out of control trying to place blame wherever they can and running with rumors as stories, which in any case is disgusting because perception is generally conceived as truth.

The only question I have is with intent from Richie. Was he meaning to be a bully and a racist and to basically be a douche to him? Or was he trying to toughen this extremely soft Stanford 2nd year player up? Who hasn't heard racist comments meant in a joking manner while playing sports? Was Richie meaning these things as jokes or what? His black teammates are backing him up and saying he is not a racist and Ricky Williams came out in support of him by saying that Richie once asked him for help and a real racist would never ask a black man for help. I don't know if that's true or not but I can buy it. The problem is that no matter what the outcome is Richie's career is probably over since he's been voted the dirtiest and 2nd dirtiest player in the league in 2 different years and this will kill any interest in him due to the media attention. I feel for the guy if he had good intentions, but if he was seriously threatening Martin and bullying him to be a bully then he needs to be out of the league. I don't think that's the case but we'll see, hopefully.

[Admin]

Some of this stuff about Incognito is scary/strange. I know I talk with some of my friends in ways that others may think I am being an ass/bullying but that is not the truth. My friends would back me up, but conversations between us may be contrived of me looking like a fool if you do not know the context. Now, maybe if I pissed off a friend they could be dishonest and really nail me for some serious shit if we were coworkers. I would be pretty helpless in that type of situation, because it ends up with a he said type of scenario and it would be hard for me to prove the messages were not literal.

I'm not defending Incognito or Martin here. Incognito said specific things that I would never say, but at the same time I have said similar things as obvious jokes. Well, they are obvious to me and who I communicate to but someone shown these messages without context would think I am a monster. It is just interesting, my initial thought after seeing what Incognito sent to Martin was that these were jokes and gosh Incognito is a meathead who thinks he is funny but isn't.

But who knows, maybe I am wrong and Incognito really did hate Martin and wanted to shit in his mouth. I've never been a pro football player so I don't know how often they shit in a person's mouth. I also don't know what else Incognito has done to Martin.

Well the funny thing is that just a couple months back Richie and Martin were hanging out together on Bourbon street. Just the fact that they've hung out together and took pictures together makes me believe that this is an agenda that's being pushed by Martin's parents / reps. But who knows. The fact that Martin has kept these voice mails and text messages for so long says there might have been intent all along. The problem is that Martin himself said that he never voiced these issues to any of his coaches or management and for him to just quit the team and go to the media like this speaks to a serious lack of character.

Oh and it's not just your friends who think you're probably an ass ;)

[EazyRoc]

Once you are grown, you cannot be bullied anymore. Martin needs to grow a pair and Incognito should try that whole deal on someone who isn't as soft as wet tissue. If you don't want to be hazed, speak your damn mind and stand on your word. Sure your teammates might think you're an arrogant d*ck, but its the pros now. You probably won't stay on a team for more than a few years at a time anyway.

[Admin]

Incognito treats everyone like that and they all love him. Martin is just panty waste for not dealing with this like a man. Several of his black teammates said something along the lines of that's how Richie is, he jokes around a lot and he can be an ass but they love him and there's nobody you'd want in a dark alley next you. This will end his Dolphins career and maybe his NFL career and it's a shame as it should have been handled internally. This is going to change the culture in the NFL Shen the league writes policy for next year that forbids hazing and forcing rookies to pick up tabs.

[macdaddy]

I"ve heard rumors that the coaching staff asked Incognito to toughen him up. If that's the case its going to take on a whole new dimension.

[Admin]

I"ve heard rumors that the coaching staff asked Incognito to toughen him up. If that's the case its going to take on a whole new dimension.

Not the coaching "staff" but apparently a coach. Not sure who that coach is right now but it's definitely not Philbin. The source who said that about the coach also said that he was never told to harrass or threaten or get racial with him. But here's something interesting that came out this morning...

The source said that coaches did not specifically tell Incognito to leave Martin harassing voice mails. But, the source said, “as weird as that sounds, I think that was Incognito trying to be a team leader.”

Incognito has been supported publicly by many of his teammates, black and white. Center Mike Pouncey, who is black, lines up next to Incognito on the field and is a friend off the field.

“Pouncey and Incognito, they talk to each other that way — redneck, (n-word), it doesn’t bother the two of them. It’s how they communicate,” the source said. “They bond with one another and they were trying to bring Jonathan in the circle.”

Again this goes back to Martin being a big sissy who couldn't deal with being treated like other members of the offensive line brotherhood treated each other. All of my life playing sports I've been called all sorts of racial things but I know it was just joking and I've heard things about my mother and whatever else but it's just jokes. Martin just doesn't have a thick enough skin to be in the NFL and he's probably going to cost Richie his career and that's sad.

[Admin]

The players considered Richie an honorary black man and blacker than Martin.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/

One of the most curious aspects of the Richie Incognito-Jonathan Martin story is how race has become very much a part of it outside the Dolphins locker room -- in the media and among fans and observers -- but not at all so far within the Dolphins locker room.

Think of this:

Richie Incognito left Jonathan Martin a voice mail that, among other things, called Martin a "half-n----r." And Dolphins players of color, knowing of the voicemail, have expressed no problems with Incognito.

"I don't have a problem with Richie," Mike Wallace said. "I love Richie."

"I don't think Richie is a racist," cornerback Brent Grimes said.

"Richie Incognito isn't a racist," tight end Michael Egnew said.

ESPN analyst and former Dolphins wide receiver Cris Carter has know Mike Pouncey since the player's childhood. Today Carter said on air he recently spoke to Mike Pouncey and the center, who is Incognito's friend, addressed race.

"They don't feel as if he's a racist, they don't feel as if he picked on Jonathan repeatedly and bullied him, but if they could do it all over again there would be situations that they might change but they’re very, very comfortable with Richie,” Carter said.

“They think it’s sad, not only that Jonathan’s not on the football team, but also that Richie is being depicted as a bigot and as a racist.”

How is this possible?

Well, I've spoken to multiple people today about this and the explanation from all of them is that in the Dolphins locker room, Richie Incognito was considered a black guy. He was accepted by the black players. He was an honorary black man.

And Jonathan Martin, who is bi-racial, was not. Indeed, Martin was considered less black than Incognito.

"Richie is honarary," one player who left the Dolphins this offseason told me today. "I don't expect you to understand because you're not black. But being a black guy, being a brother is more than just about skin color. It's about how you carry yourself. How you play. Where you come from. What you've experienced. A lot of things."

Another former Dolphins employee told me Martin is considered "soft" by his teammates and that's a reason he's not readily accepted by some of the players, particularly the black players. His background -- Stanford educated and the son of highly educated people -- was not necessarily seen as a strength or a positive by some players and it perpetuated in the way Martin carried himself.

And so -- agree with it or not, comprehend it or not -- this is a reason the Dolphins haven't turned on Incognito as a racist.

[Admin]

And then there's this...

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[Admin]

I have been hesitant to back Richie on this because I have zero tolerance for people who are true racists, but there's been so many false rumors and stories out there that you just don't know what to believe. These "reporters" just put out a ton of shit and hope it sticks and they could care less about who they hurt in the process. I wish that some of these athletes start suing these reporters for libel so that they'd have to fact check before throwing something out there that the court of public opinion will kill the athletes for.

[Admin]

The worm has turned around big time here.

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[Admin]

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[deester11]

Dolf, the way the media jumped on this... Man they were killing the phins. Shocked to see so much craziness with the team. Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk

[Admin]

Dolf, the way the media jumped on this... Man they were killing the phins. Shocked to see so much craziness with the team.Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk

You know I'm not shocked to see it. Let's look at the recent history of my teams.

Yankees: ARod / Steroids scandals

Hawks: Horrible ownership dispute

Hurricanes: Multi year probe into harsh allegations that gutted the team of quality players

Dolphins: Tried to hire Harbaugh while having another coach under contract and now this.

I think it's me that is keeping these teams down. How else can you explain so much negative national attention for my teams?

[deester11]

You know I'm not shocked to see it. Let's look at the recent history of my teams. Yankees: ARod / Steroids scandalsHawks: Horrible ownership disputeHurricanes: Multi year probe into harsh allegations that gutted the team of quality playersDolphins: Tried to hire Harbaugh while having another coach under contract and now this. I think it's me that is keeping these teams down. How else can you explain so much negative national attention for my teams?

Not good Dolf.....but I'll fall on the sword and say that even though I've despised Ireland as a Parcells underling, I thought the Philbin hire was going to be a homerun. Tanny has moments that make you think he'll get it. But he reminds me a lot of Jake Plummer..gasp! I don't understand the underutilization of Dion Jordan, the WR enigma's and LT. Other than that, the team has a decent core. It's just embarrassing year after year to get trashed by all of the pundits.

[benhillboy]

I must be missing something in all this political correctness. I can't feel sorry for a 300 lb man who is afraid to defend himself nor villify Incognito. I'm pretty sure there are 10 times worse things said in the trenches. No harm, no foul. Move some furniture around and be friends afterwards. I can see why Miami backs Richie. No one wants to be known as the babysitter franchise.Damn all that though. My man Brent is balling out, huh Dol?

Edited November 7, 2013 by benhillboy

[Admin]

I must be missing something in all this political correctness. I can't feel sorry for a 300 lb man who is afraid to defend himself nor villify Incognito. I'm pretty sure there are 10 times worse things said in the trenches. No harm, no foul. Move some furniture around and be friends afterwards. I can see why Miami backs Richie. No one wants to be known as the babysitter franchise.Damn all that though. My man Brent is balling out, huh Dol?

Oh yeah Grimey has been ballin out for sure! I'm a huge fan of that tiny little man and his giant heart. Kids not afraid to throw his hat into the pile that's for sure. If Martin had half his balls he'd be a damn fine tackle.

[Admin]

Not good Dolf.....but I'll fall on the sword and say that even though I've despised Ireland as a Parcells underling, I thought the Philbin hire was going to be a homerun. Tanny has moments that make you think he'll get it. But he reminds me a lot of Jake Plummer..gasp! I don't understand the underutilization of Dion Jordan, the WR enigma's and LT. Other than that, the team has a decent core. It's just embarrassing year after year to get trashed by all of the pundits.

I dunno how I feel about Ireland. In some regards I like him and in others I don't. He's had a mixed bag of hitting on some really great picks later in the draft who've turned into good players and then he's failed miserably in the early-middle rounds when he really needs to find studs. In FA he's done pretty well and considering the level of hate some Dolphins fans have for him, he's survived pretty well and has been a good leader.

I think Tanny will be fine, once the oline protection gets squared away and we start running the ball regularly. Lamar Miller has looked like a stud the last few weeks and he's well over 4 yards per carry this season. Just gotta be more committed to running.

Jordan needs a lot more playing time, but part of the reason why he hasn't has been because Vernon has been big time improved this year and has earned his playing time.

And your final point, yeah it sucks to get trashed by the media but as a Hawks and Dolphins fan I've become numb to small crowds and little media attention.