Shareef needs to be traded

[chillzatl]

Coming home helps a lot of players. But I don't think it has done anything positive for Shareef. He needs to be traded for someone who can and will play physical ball and play with a little urgency. He's just going through the motions out there. I don't know whether it's "who he is" or if the reality of another losing season has set in on him and he just can't find the energy. Regardless of the reasons, he needs a change of address.

We still need to keep JT. At least he plays with energy and spirit. Considering he has the ball in his hands all the time, it's hard for him to not play with energy. At least on one end of the court.

So, those of you that agree, lets hear some trade possibilities. Shareef and anyone on the team besides JT. Get us the most for our money.

[Plainview1981]

I disagree, unless the Hawks want to make a bench player

out of JT he needs to hit the road. The franchise will NEVER

build a sucessful team expecting him to be a top player on

it. JT is one of the least fundamentally sound players that

I've ever seen play. He has no fundamentals whatsoever.

He flings the ball around like it's all fun and games and

he plays ZERO defense. I don't know how he won College

defensive player of the year, but he clearly isn't even a

average defender in the NBA.

I'll look at some trades, but I think getting picks is the

best option, but you aren't going to get anything of real

value for Reef. I think most GM's see him for what he is

and you add that huge contract and you have a player

nobody wants to touch with a 10 foot pole.

[Diesel]

[censored], I ought to be a professional prophet.

I said that Reef would be the next one taking the blame... Well, here we are, 11 games in and Reef's taking the blame.

Chillz, the whole blueprint is wrong... BUT, by far, the best piece that we have is Reef.

Look at our team again...

1. A C who can't rebound.

2. A PG who can't run the offense.

3. A SG with No outside Shot.

So you point the finger at Reef because he's not Physical enough? Last time I looked, Reef was our best rebounder. I think something else needs to be done.

I would look to see what it would take to get Damp here?

I would look into getting Doc Rivers as coach.

I would look to move JT... Yes, I would move JT because simply, JT is a SG in a PG's body and we need a PG. I would look for some answers at SG/SF.

I think it is possible to move Jackson to SG, but we would still need a SF who could get boards...

How would I reorganize?

I would send JT to LAC for QRich for starters.

Then I would let Doc find us a Bruiser...

I would love Damp but I would also try Nazr for Foyle?

[chillzatl]

Reefs the only player on this team with any real value. Just read any season preview on any site out there. They all talk about us not having only one real player of value, shareef. He has way more value than JT. Heck, we had teams calling about Reef all summer. The only team that wanted JT was Utah.

Shareef isn't a #1 guy. But a team that is guard heavy and needs an inside force, Reef would be gold.

Besides, aren't you the one that calls Reef a heartless loser?

[chillzatl]

but if you're going to change it, you have to have something of value. It takes money to make money and Shareef is the only damned dollar we have.

You can break out your grocery list of what's wrong with this team all you want. The sad fact is, we don't have a whole lot to deal with. Shareef is the only player on our roster that we can package to get anything in return.

We cant trade Theo for a good rebounding Center.

We can't trade JT for a PG that can really run an offense.

We can't trade Dion for a bag of apples and a jar of mayonaise.

That's the sad fact. This team has A LOT OF HOLES. And the only real way to fix them is to package our high priced, marquee player and get some young talent that can address our many holes.

I never said that Shareef is our only problem or even our biggest problem. But it is a FACT. He is the only way we can fix them. We have nothing else of value on this team to deal with.

See, you point to reefs hollow stats as him being "our best rebounder". All that tells me is that you aren't watching the games. You aren't sitting there for 2.5 hours, pissed off, watching Reef get outworked by 2nd string players night after night after night. You obviously aren't reading the "reports" of Reef shrugging off his poor effort and refusing to comment on it. It's bad enough that he [censored] stands there flat footed while Etan Thomas goes after a loose ball that Shareef could have grabbed himself and then stands up with hands on hips while the same Etan Thomas drives the ball across midcourt while Shareef is still standing there.

Yes Diesel, you are a prophet in one sense. You too are aware that this team has a LOT of problems. Now, stop patting yourself on the back for stating the obvious and start coming up with some trades that can fix it, using the only player of value we have on this team.

[Plainview1981]

Besides, aren't you the one that calls Reef a heartless loser?"

As a player I'd say yes...I don't know him as a person..

but I'd say he is a heartless basketball player.

Heck, we had teams calling about Reef all summer."

Who knows what they were offering? Antonio Davis

and Morris Peterson maybe?

But, since JT isn't a PG, he isn't as strong as David Wesley

and so that makes it nearly impossible to be sucessful with

him in the starting lineup. That means he either needs to

traded or turn into a 6th man...But he makes more than a

6th man should be getting...It's a problem.

[chillzatl]

We can't trade JT, that's the problem. Maybe to Utah. But I doubt it. Utah will end up making the playoffs with a cobbled together lineup. We have a lineup of former all-stars and can't beat the Wizards at home.

[Plainview1981]

Theo isn;t a true Allstar. We'll say that Reef is a allstar

PF IN THE EAST...But the bench is bad....Stephen Jackson

is bad....I'm starting to think I'd take Harpring/Andrei over

SAR/JT. The worse thing about this team is the dumb mistakes. These guys are supposed to be PRO's. Nazr

tried to go behind the back...And he he tried to lob the

ball inside to Jacque Vaughn. There is noway a player

can be that dumb.

JT should come off the bench if he can't be traded. I

still think Knight needs to bite the bullet and start over.

I mean, what is the team trying to do? The team really

can't be upgraded with all of these contracts, Boris is

the only young player the team really has......I mean,

the team needs some kind of direction. Cleveland/Denver

and even the Clippers are building good young teams

while the Hawks are basically just keeping the same

bad team and wasting seasons away.

The Hawks are like one big puzzle that can't get sorted

out.

[Diesel]

For all practical purposes Shareef is not tradeable.

I'm not saying that teams won't deal with us, they just won't deal fairly with us.

For instance, I can easily see Houston sending us Cato, Griff, Moochie Norris for Reef...

What have we gained??

I can easily see Toronto sending us Antonio Davis for Reef....

What have we gained??

I can easily See NY sending us: McDyess and a Pick for Reef??

What have we gained?

There's no benefit in trading our best player for JUNK. That's all we can expect because Nobody wants to pay Reef big Money for what he has given us unless, they can unload trouble players, Gimps, or bad contracts...

I doubt that we can even trade for Rasheed Wallace at this point.

Back to what value that Hawks have:

1. Theo has value. IN fact, make a deal at Dallas right now and they take it quickly. Theo can go for Jamison. NO, it's not a rebounding C, but imagine;

PG, Jackson, Jamison, Reef, Nazr.

That's not a great defensive team but so WHAT... We'll just play Zone and get a coach who will make our team HUSTLE.

JT has value, unfortunately, JT can't be traded at the moment. A team would have to be under the cap to take him...

I think that means, LAC, Milwaukee, Chicago???

Of those, LAC...

However, we can wait to move JT. Maybe for QRich (SNT).

Still...

For now, Fire Stotts, Hire Doc.

2. Theo/Dickau for Jamison.

3. Sign a FA bruiser...

Mamdou N'Diaye

Dean Garrett

Eric Montross

Oluminide Oyediji

Just to name a few...

Then I would play:

JT, Jackson, Jamison, Reef, Nazr...

What changed?

For now, it's just Doc's coaching. However, now Reef doesn't have to work so hard to be the only answer. Jamison is capable of scoring.

Doc will add hustle. Then in the summer, we look for some PG help. I think Doc won't hesitate to play JV over JT some times...

[Plainview1981]

hen I would play:

JT, Jackson, Jamison, Reef, Nazr... "

Doc Rivers has only a 50-50 record as a head coach. But

is it me, or does that team look an aweful lot like the

team had last year. Dont you get it, you aren't going to

win games with JT/SAR in the starting lineup unless you

have a superstar. These players have an aweful lot of

flaws.

And JT can't get Q Rich now...He's playing too well.

Trade Reef for picks and a ending contract and start over

from scratch.

[Diesel]

Actually,

I'm submitting that because of his contract, JT probably Can't be trading. I would let his value steep and then when his contract goes down next year, I would see about trading him. QRich will calm down by the end of the season. I think that he's a great 2 to get. However, the core would change from what it is now to:

Jamison & Reef

Jackson might leave. JT should be traded in the offseason. But corewise, we have Jamison and Reef. We find a C in the draft. We find a PG on the market. We trade for a SG..

[Plainview1981]

Well not work. These two are the same non rebounding

finesse tweeners. BOTH seem to lack the heart. Where is

the leadership going to come from? defense? Trading for

Reef was a huge error and just getting rid of him for cap

space and draft picks is the best way to go. He isn't going

to win unless he's a side kick to someone like Paul Pierce.

[chillzatl]

Danny Fortson - He's very unhappy in Dallas(so says my source) He wants minutes and he's not going to get them there. They have a ton of talent and he's not big enough to make a difference in the paint. He's a bruiser and a damned good rebounder.

Theo and someone for Fortson and Jamison. THis has to be an attractive trade on paper at least. This loosens up the scoring logjam that Dallas has and gives them the all-star center they've never had. He's no Shaq. But Theo will keep people from driving the basket better than anyone else they've had.

[Plainview1981]

IF they throw in Howard instead of Danny Fortson I'm

with you. The problem with Fortson is that he's a poor

defensive player. He's a good rebounder, but seems to

be a troublemaker...So I don't know.

[Boondocks]

In reply to:

---

We can't trade JT, that's the problem. Maybe to Utah. But I doubt it.

---

Actually, since it's Utah who signed him to the offer sheet, we cannot trade him to Utah (as that could lead to circumvention CBA yada yada). We can trade him to Utha next year though, but that doesn't help us now.

I do think it'll be hard to trade JT as doesn't he have BYC (baseyearcompensation status)? Which basically means it'll be hard to trade him unless we get a team involved that's under the cap.

Orlando would be a good trading partner though, they want to win NOW and won't have a high pick even if they make the playoffs.

[chillzatl]

HOward doesn't play for Dallas any more. Fortson is a solid defensive player. he's not going to be a DPY candidate. But he's a better man to man defender than Theo is. He doesn't get pushed around either. He's a tough, in your face player who won't let himself or his team get pushed around. That's what we need.

I mean c'mon, you've been saying we need a tough player for years and then you want HOWARD over Fortson? sheesh.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

These two are the same non rebounding

finesse tweeners.

---

Jamison:

2003 - 27.5 mpg, 6.2 rpg.

2002 - 39.5 mpg, 7.0 rpg.

2001 - 37.0 mpg, 6.8 rpg.

Reef:

2003 - 35.9 mpg, 9.1 rpg

2002 - 38.1 mpg, 8.4 rpg

2001 - 38.7 mpg, 9.0 rpg.

So if you add them together

2003 - 15.3 rpg.

2002 - 15.4 rpg.

2001 - 15.8 rpg

for an average of 15.5 rpg.

Now... Let's go through the league and find a PF/SF pair that rebounds better?

San Antonio...

Last yr... Duncan 12.9 rpg. Bowen 2.9rpg = 15.8rpg.

Lakers....

Last year Fox 4.3, Horry 6.4 = 10.7 rpg.

Minn....

Last year.... Garnette 13.40 rpg. Zerb 4.6rpg = 17.0rpg.

Nets.....

Last year Kmart 8.3 rpg, RJ 6.4 rpg. = 14.7 rpg.

Mavericks

Last year Dirk 9.9, Najera 4.6... = 15.5 rpg.

Kings

Last year: Webber 10.5 rpg, Stojo = 5.5 = 16.0 rpg.

Celtics

Last year: Walker 7.2 rpg, Pierce 7.3 rpg = 14.5 rpg.

So when we put it all together.

Twolves

Kings

San Antonio

Hawks with Jamison

Mavs

Nets

Celtics

Lakers.

These are supposedly the best teams featuring the best PFs in the game. I didn't take the time to go through other lesser teams. Everybody doesn't have a KG pulling down 12.4 rebounds per...

So what's your basis again??

[Lascar78]

You can't just add stats like that. LA has 4 players that were all scoring 20+ points last year, but obviously they all won't this year. Just because Reef gets 9 rpg and jamison gets 7, it does not mean they'd get 16 rpg if they were on the same team

[Diesel]

I didn't say that was the case... In fact, if we traded for Jamison a lot of things would happen:

1. Nazr would be in the starting lineup and he rebounds much better than Theo.

2. Nazr would be in the post and offer a post alternative to reef in the scoring dpt.

3. Jamison's midrange game would force defense to move and double teams would decrease on Reef.

Jackson would move to SG and his three point percentage might increase because of the way we play the SG.

Not to mention Doc coaching...

However, the thing I wanted to show mainly was that Both Jamison and Reef's rebounding numbers were consistent. Also, I suspect Jamison's rebounding numbers will go up anyway. For years Jamison has been on a good rebounding team. Now, he's not. You notice that he rebounds far better per 48 than he did before. I suspect that will change coming here too.

[Playmaker0017]

Chillz,

I understand the logic behind Reef being the most tradable/marketable player - but I don't think that is the solution.

I think this team has holes, heck, you'd be dumb not to. But, so does Utah. So does Sacramento. So do a lot of teams. The difference is they have a system that works. They have a coach that has an offense that orients itself properly.

Look at the Wizards. Without their star player, they beat us and currently have a better record. They don't have the same "talent" as a Shareef or JT bring. Jackson and Dion and Theo are great role-players.

But, did you see how their offense played to that? A man would drive and dish, drive and dish, drive and dish.... they kept moving. They limited their weaknesses and allowed Hughes et al to look good.

Stotts is almost as bad as Lon. He brought us defense, but still doesn't have an offensive gameplan of any worth. His player rotation is just dreadful.

Play.