A not so flattering picture of the Hawks crowd gets posted on Twitter

[macdaddy]

I think there is a big difference with moving entirely out of State as opposed to 20 miles north.

Not to me. Don't tell me how to feel.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Randy I gotta admit that was pretty funny. But I present Hawks vs Celtics 2007 playoffs as to why you'd want big crowds as the team feeds off of that. If this doesn't give you chillz then you must be dead!

http://youtu.be/fNwnTNQ9KjI

I went to Game 3 and Game 6 of that series. Easily the best crowds I ever seen in Atlanta.

The one thing Atlanta does do . . is show up for playoff games. Even the Joe Johnson led Hawks didn't have much problem selling out playoff games. Problem is, if we played a popular team, they may have 3,000 - 5,000 of their fans in the arena.

If we get matched up vs the Heat in the 1st round, Lord help us with the amount of bandwagon Heat fans that will be at Philips for Game 3.

[Admin]

I went to Game 3 and Game 6 of that series. Easily the best crowds I ever seen in Atlanta.

The one thing Atlanta does do . . is show up for playoff games. Even the Joe Johnson led Hawks didn't have much problem selling out playoff games. Problem is, if we played a popular team, they may have 3,000 - 5,000 of their fans in the arena.

If we get matched up vs the Heat in the 1st round, Lord help us with the amount of bandwagon Heat fans that will be at Philips for Game 3.

I'm envious of anyone who got to go to those games. I was soooo close to driving there for game 6 but I just couldn't take the time off. I know the fans came out for other series we've played in but that was easily the craziest Philips has ever looked / sounded on TV for a Hawks game.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I'll agree with Dolfan but to a point. I recall the '88-89 season quite well. It came after that epic series with Boston. During the offseason, they traded for Reggie Theus then moved on Moses Malone. Both guys were All-Star players who were well proven in the league. The entire city was buzzed about the possibilities and responded by buying tickets by the bushel.

Now ask yourselves this very simple question. Have this franchise ever had an offseason like that before or since? You know, a season where they actually challenged someone in the playoffs before, then added REAL players to their starting lineup?

Sadly, we all know the answer to that, which explains why the stands stay empty except when (insert superstar here) is in town.

We've had close to fifty years of mediocre basketball here. We've witnessed two star players who had to carry the freight by themselves while other teams had guys with actual TALENT who could help them out; only to blame those guys for not being able to carry those carcasses to a title. The draft has been an unmitigated disaster area. Name another franchise that has picked only one All-Star player (Horford) with its picks over the last THIRTY YEARS that actually played for the team.

Fans respond to the product you dish out. That's why those perennial contenders keep adding players every year who can help; all while getting rid of those who can't. The one year this team finally got it right was '88-89; albeit with the wrong mix of players. That one, lonely season we didn't hear about potential, upside, or what they could look like 2-3 years from now. It was about winning the big belt right now; the way it ALWAYS SHOULD BE...

Too bad about that 88 - 89 team. The Kevin Willis foot injury killed that season, from a championship perspective. That team was still good at 52 wins . . ( actually better in the W - L column than the 50 win 1988 team ). But they didn't take Milwaukee seriously enough and let Ricky Pierce destroy us in Game 5 at The Omni.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I wonder how much having a crowd like that helped the team. Probably not too much since we played terribly on a national stage afterwards. Good times though.

We won 3 first round playoff series in a row after that series.

The Joe Johnson Hawks just couldn't beat elite level teams . . because we didn't have enough talent . . and a good enough coach.

[Admin]

We won 3 first round playoff series in a row after that series.

The Joe Johnson Hawks just couldn't beat elite level teams . . because we didn't have enough talent . . and a good enough coach.

I don't know that we didn't have enough talent. We definitely didn't have the talent that would show up in big series and play at or above their ability though. And well coaching yeah we were certainly lacking there.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I'm envious of anyone who got to go to those games. I was soooo close to driving there for game 6 but I just couldn't take the time off. I know the fans came out for other series we've played in but that was easily the craziest Philips has ever looked / sounded on TV for a Hawks game.

The mistake I made, was not staying in Atlanta for Game 4, which was the game in which JJ went off in the 4th quarter and Smith had an amazing all around game. I would've loved to have been there to see that.

Game 3 was on a Saturday ( I think ) and Game 4 was on a Monday. So I had to be back in Tennessee for work. I should've just stayed the entire weekend and came back on Tuesday. But I had made up my mind that if the Hawks won Game 4, that I'd go to Game 6. Glad I did.

But this is part of the problem with this franchise. This isn't a memory from an NBA Finals, or a Conference Finals, or even the Conference SemiFinals. It's from the 1st round.

Somehow, someway, we need to get to that EC Finals to give that city some hope in the Hawks. For the most part, they are an afterthought in that city, until playoff time comes around.

[macdaddy]

I think there is a big difference with moving entirely out of State as opposed to 20 miles north.

Seriously though I think the Braves debacle showed just how inept the city government is. Not that I don't heap a lot of blame on the Braves themselves because they didn't negotiate with honesty but if a hawks owner wanted to move the team elsewhere i think the only thing that would save us is the NBA not wanting such a major market without a team. Of course that didn't save seattle but seattle is smaller and a much different demographic.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I don't know that we didn't have enough talent. We definitely didn't have the talent that would show up in big series and play at or above their ability though. And well coaching yeah we were certainly lacking there.

Put it like this Dol.

You're a Syracuse basketball fan . . I am too by the way. I've always loved the Orange since the days of Pearl Washington. Next to my alma mater of Tennessee, I'm a big time supporter of Syracuse basketball.

Now . . think of the Syracuse teams that "underachieved" and the teams that actually did something and reached the Final 4.

What was the difference? STAR TALENT

The 1987 Finals team that lost to Indiana had Sherman Douglas, Rony Seikaly, and Derrick Coleman . . all legit NBA players.

The 1996 Finals team overachieved, with John Wallace playing out of his mind.

The 2003 Championship team had a superstar in Carmelo and a young decent player in Hakim Warrick.

Last year's Final 4 team had Michael Carter-Williams, who looks like he will be a damn good NBA player for years to come.

But the teams that supposedly "choked" all of those other years, really didn't have NBA level talent on the roster. They were good teams with maybe one real good player, but not extraordinarily talented across the board, or with two or three NBA level players.

The Billy Owens Syracuse teams definitely disappointed, especially when they lost to Richmond.

As good as Lawrence Moten was, he never amounted to anything in the NBA.

Even John Wallace, who put that team on his back in 96, didn't last in the NBA.

Gerry McNamara will always be a beloved Cuse player, but he wasn't an NBA caliber player either.

And the Johnny Flynn teams were fun to watch, but who off of that team is a legit NBA player?

The fact is that as good as the Syracuse program has been over the years, we really don't produce many top notch NBA talent. Because of that, we become vulnerable during tournament time, because we don't have that "bail out player" to win a game for us.

The same goes for the Hawks. As good as Joe Johnson was at times, he'd be a #2 option on just about all of those playoff teams that we lost to. And a guy like Josh Smith wouldn't be close to a #2 scoring option on ANY of those teams.

We didn't have an All-NBA 1st team ( or All-NBA 2nd team ) player during the JJ era. The teams we lost to had an All-NBA guy. Here are the people we have lost to in the playoffs, from 2008 - 2012

2008: Garnett ( 1st ), Pierce ( 3rd )

2009: Lebron ( 1st )

2010: Howard (1st )

2011: Rose ( 1st )

2012: Rondo ( 3rd ) . . but still with Garnett ( 2nd team all defense ) and Pierce

We were talented. But we didn't have enough talent. We needed more. Or we needed one of our talented guys to really elevate his game to the next level.

Edited March 24, 2014 by TheNorthCydeRises

[Bahamut]

I went to Game 3 and Game 6 of that series. Easily the best crowds I ever seen in Atlanta.

I came home early from Tokyo just to go the Game 6, but the crowd still can't compare to Game 1 of the Thrashers' playoffs the year before. That was a magical time for both teams since there hadn't been playoffs in the building for years before then.

[Admin]

Put it like this Dol.

You're a Syracuse basketball fan . . I am too by the way. I've always loved the Orange since the days of Pearl Washington. Next to my alma mater of Tennessee, I'm a big time supporter of Syracuse basketball.

Now . . think of the Syracuse teams that "underachieved" and the teams that actually did something and reached the Final 4.

What was the difference? STAR TALENT

The 1987 Finals team that lost to Indiana had Sherman Douglas, Rony Seikaly, and Derrick Coleman . . all legit NBA players.

The 1996 Finals team overachieved, with John Wallace playing out of his mind.

The 2003 Championship team had a superstar in Carmelo and a young decent player in Hakim Warrick.

Last year's Final 4 team had Michael Carter-Williams, who looks like he will be a damn good NBA player for years to come.

But the teams that supposedly "choked" all of those other years, really didn't have NBA level talent on the roster. They were good teams with maybe one real good player, but not extraordinarily talented across the board, or with two or three NBA level players.

The Billy Owens Syracuse teams definitely disappointed, especially when they lost to Richmond.

As good as Lawrence Moten was, he never amounted to anything in the NBA.

Even John Wallace, who put that team on his back in 96, didn't last in the NBA.

Gerry McNamara will always be a beloved Cuse player, but he wasn't an NBA caliber player either.

And the Johnny Flynn teams were fun to watch, but who off of that team is a legit NBA player?

The fact is that as good as the Syracuse program has been over the years, we really don't produce many top notch NBA talent. Because of that, we become vulnerable during tournament time, because we don't have that "bail out player" to win a game for us.

The same goes for the Hawks. As good as Joe Johnson was at times, he'd be a #2 option on just about all of those playoff teams that we lost to. And a guy like Josh Smith wouldn't be close to a #2 scoring option on ANY of those teams.

We didn't have an All-NBA 1st team ( or All-NBA 2nd team ) player during the JJ era. The teams we lost to had an All-NBA guy. Here are the people we have lost to in the playoffs, from 2008 - 2012

2008: Garnett ( 1st ), Pierce ( 3rd )

2009: Lebron ( 1st )

2010: Howard (1st )

2011: Rose ( 1st )

2012: Rondo ( 3rd ) . . but still with Garnett ( 2nd team all defense ) and Pierce

We were talented. But we didn't have enough talent. We needed more. Or we needed one of our talented guys to really elevate his game to the next level.

Oh man what you're a Syracuse fan? Now I have to re-evaluate my opinion of you... jk

In most instances I would agree with you that you need the star power to elevate but with that Hawks core we had enough talent to where if they had played up to their abilities in the playoffs and if we had better coaching there's no doubt we would have won more games. But you never knew if the star JJ was going to show up, whether we'd see good Josh, invisible Josh or BAD Josh and then our supporting cast of Horford and Marvin you didn't know if they'd show up either and at least fulfill their supporting roles. That's the problem with that core is that you couldn't count on each player and the collection on a game by game basis to show up and play to their ability like you can with the successful teams of that time.

I mean you can't tell me that we could take 3 games at home to the Celtics where we absolutely played our butts off and very much belonged and then turn around and get blown out on the road against them and say it's a star player issue. It's a mental issue with those guys and always was. They could play up with anyone when they wanted to but they could play down with anyone when they wanted to. Unfortunately the team that could play up too rarely decided to actually play up.