True Center you say?....huh

[Guest]

Monroe’s agent, David Falk, will hit the market seeking a max deal for Monroe, and he could well get it—Monroe is a skilled 25-year-old big man who has averaged 14.0 points and 9.0 rebounds, and those are not easy to find. A good example is Monroe’s fellow Georgetown Hoya Roy Hibbert. In 2012, Hibbert was a restricted free agent coming off a year in which he averaged a pretty mundane 12.8 points and 8.8 rebounds. Yet he was offered a four-year max deal worth $58 million by Portland, and the Pacers were forced to match it. Hibbert’s agent is Falk, too. He is supposed to be retired, but Falk is still a strong influence around the league. “If anyone is going to find a max deal for Monroe, it is David,” the GM said. “They will be aggressive and try to find something in the early stage of free agency. Remember, he was the agent for a guy who is now a team owner. It's just a matter of whether the Pistons can get something back. - See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.V12J1ugO.dpuf

I'm so done with handing out max deals for 2nd Tier players.

Edited May 14, 2014 by JayBirdHawk

[JTB]

Monroes agent, David Falk, will hit the market seeking a max deal for Monroe, and he could well get itMonroe is a skilled 25-year-old big man who has averaged 14.0 points and 9.0 rebounds, and those are not easy to find. A good example is Monroes fellow Georgetown Hoya Roy Hibbert. In 2012, Hibbert was a restricted free agent coming off a year in which he averaged a pretty mundane 12.8 points and 8.8 rebounds. Yet he was offered a four-year max deal worth $58 million by Portland, and the Pacers were forced to match it. Hibberts agent is Falk, too. He is supposed to be retired, but Falk is still a strong influence around the league. If anyone is going to find a max deal for Monroe, it is David, the GM said. They will be aggressive and try to find something in the early stage of free agency. Remember, he was the agent for a guy who is now a team owner. It's just a matter of whether the Pistons can get something back. - See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.V12J1ugO.dpuf

I'm so done with handing out max deals for 2nd Tier players.

Oh ok so he's 25...and he's very likely to get a max deal worth probably between 10-14mil per year....so here's my question(s):

Does ferry think Monroe is worth the max? Or would this be another 2nd tier player (as jaybirdhawk put it) gettin a max deal just because of his size?

My opinion:

Monroe has some positives about himself. He has good size, did rebound well this past season, and he has the ability to play a very good inside offense more so than defense in his case BUT he's a risk at a high deal on the table so I'm still giving hawes the 7-9m 2 year deal and rolling with it.

[Guest]

Oh ok so he's 25...and he's very likely to get a max deal worth probably between 10-14mil per year....so here's my question(s):

Does ferry think Monroe is worth the max? Or would this be another 2nd tier player (as jaybirdhawk put it) gettin a max deal just because of his size?

My opinion:

Monroe has some positives about himself. He has good size, did rebound well this past season, and he has the ability to play a very good inside offense more so than defense in his case BUT he's a risk at a high deal on the table so I'm still giving hawes the 7-9m 2 year deal and rolling with it.

A max deal similar to Hibbert is 4yrs/14.5mil - I'll pass. I could see Charlotte ponying up to pair him with Al Jefferson.

[Q45T]

Uhhh... Monroe is only 23. He turns 24 next month. Whole lotta potential.

[Diesel]

Yes! And there were points in the season where Brand was the only pf/c on the floor for most of the game. We are a team that doesn't value offensive rebounds that much. Bud has expressed that. So even if you disagree with the concept we are a low ranked offensive rebounding team by design not because we suck at it.

That aside, we're not great at defensive rebounding either. Is that part of the plan too? We can't be a low FG% team and allow the other team to get second chance points too? I like the idea of team rebounding on the defensive end, but it works better when you have a big. I like the idea of team defense, but it works better when you have a big. What it sounds like your argument is to me is...

Let's just stay Mediocre and try to get one more offensive player? Don't you realize that if we got more stops, got more defensive rebounds, stopped the other team from having a second chance on the offense and played a stronger defense that we would not only beat most teams, we would blow them out.

Whereas if we went for more offense in lieu of defense then we will be repeating the mistake of Sacramento. Fun to watch but won't win nothing.

[BrazilianHawk]

... Without Horford, we were a middle of the pack team in terms of defensive rebounding. One would think it can only get better, so no, we probably won't let the opponents have many offensive rebounds.

Edited May 15, 2014 by BrazilianHawk

[Diesel]

... Without Horford, we were a middle of the pack team in terms of defensive rebounding. One would think it can only get better, so no, we probably won't let the opponents have many offensive rebounds.

Even with Horford, we're not a great rebounding team and our defensive doesn't improve by much. The other night, Gortat put on an exhibition to show the worth of a big man. Sure Washington has a great guard pair, but the game was put out of reach when Gortat lead the Wiz in limiting second chance points and creating second chance points and making it more difficult to score inside. I would like to see us with that kind of option alongside Horf than either or.

[JTB]

Even with Horford, we're not a great rebounding team and our defensive doesn't improve by much. The other night, Gortat put on an exhibition to show the worth of a big man. Sure Washington has a great guard pair, but the game was put out of reach when Gortat lead the Wiz in limiting second chance points and creating second chance points and making it more difficult to score inside. I would like to see us with that kind of option alongside Horf than either or.

Not me! We don't go after many offensive boards so this is completely irrelevant to the hawks. Coach bud coaches sharing the ball and efficient scoring on the offense end and getting back on defense more so than going after an offensive rebound. So I don't see your purpose of bringing this up unless your arguing with the way coach bud coaches or I should say the way of the spurs.

[macdaddy]

That aside, we're not great at defensive rebounding either. Is that part of the plan too? We can't be a low FG% team and allow the other team to get second chance points too? I like the idea of team rebounding on the defensive end, but it works better when you have a big. I like the idea of team defense, but it works better when you have a big. What it sounds like your argument is to me is...

Let's just stay Mediocre and try to get one more offensive player? Don't you realize that if we got more stops, got more defensive rebounds, stopped the other team from having a second chance on the offense and played a stronger defense that we would not only beat most teams, we would blow them out.

Whereas if we went for more offense in lieu of defense then we will be repeating the mistake of Sacramento. Fun to watch but won't win nothing.

You finally understand my argument! That's it exactly. My argument is that we should stay mediocre. I wish more people would understand that if we get Gortat we won't be mediocre anymore and why would anyone want that. Obviously, the only way for us to stay effectively mediocre is to start two all stars up front and try to add a legit scorer. Cause nothing says elite like Marcin Gortat

Seriously though we were middle of the pack in defensive rebounding despite missing most of our centers for much of the season. Given our roster and record i'd say we about damn excelled at defensive rebounding to be 16th in the league. Gortat would be nice but seriously how often is Gortat a difference maker like he was the other night? I'd take him but not in lieu of having a real scorer because if you just swap millsap for gortat i'm not seeing where that makes us better.

Meetings this season

game 1 gortat had 12/7. Millsap had 10 rebounds

game 2 gortat had 12/10. Horford 34/15 Millsap 16/11

game 3 gortat had 14/12. Millsap 21/11 Brand 20/11 Hawks defensive rebound edge : 33-32

game 4 gortat had 12/11. Millsap 17/4 Antić 13/12 - this was a game that brand carrol korver and of course horford didn't play

So in four meetings Gortat got out rebounded in every game but one and that one Millsap and Brand managed 11 boards each. If Gortat can't dominate the boards against our supposedly pathetic rebounding and small team how's he that big of a step up?

[Guest]

You finally understand my argument! That's it exactly. My argument is that we should stay mediocre. I wish more people would understand that if we get Gortat we won't be mediocre anymore and why would anyone want that. Obviously, the only way for us to stay effectively mediocre is to start two all stars up front and try to add a legit scorer. Cause nothing says elite like Marcin Gortat

Seriously though we were middle of the pack in defensive rebounding despite missing most of our centers for much of the season. Given our roster and record i'd say we about damn excelled at defensive rebounding to be 16th in the league. Gortat would be nice but seriously how often is Gortat a difference maker like he was the other night? I'd take him but not in lieu of having a real scorer because if you just swap millsap for gortat i'm not seeing where that makes us better.

Meetings this season

game 1 gortat had 12/7. Millsap had 10 rebounds

game 2 gortat had 12/10. Horford 34/15 Millsap 16/11

game 3 gortat had 14/12. Millsap 21/11 Brand 20/11 Hawks defensive rebound edge : 33-32

game 4 gortat had 12/11. Millsap 17/4 Antić 13/12 - this was a game that brand carrol korver and of course horford didn't play

So in four meetings Gortat got out rebounded in every game but one and that one Millsap and Brand managed 11 boards each. If Gortat can't dominate the boards against our supposedly pathetic rebounding and small team how's he that big of a step up?

@macdaddy Maaan....you gotta purple font the first paragraph, you had me confused for a minute. good one.

[macdaddy]

@macdaddy Maaan....you gotta purple font the first paragraph, you had me confused for a minute. good one.

Yeah. I'm bad about that but keeps people guessing!

[AHF]

I still think we see big differences with impact interior defenders. No Dekes or Hakeem's right now (although I think Anthony Davis will be special) but there remains a huge difference between a Marc Gasol and a Hawes on that end of the court. It isn't just - "be tall and raise your arms.""

[Buzzard]

I still think we see big differences with impact interior defenders. No Dekes or Hakeem's right now (although I think Anthony Davis will be special) but there remains a huge difference between a Marc Gasol and a Hawes on that end of the court. It isn't just - "be tall and raise your arms.""

Drummond has a chance to be a beast inside as well. But if you can't have that; then it comes down to team D and fundamentals. I don't think Tyson Chandler is a shot blocking specialist; but he uses his body correctly and was what Dallas needed when they won the championship. Gasol does the same thing; but on a much more consistent basis over his career.

Deke, well trying to get a Deke is like trying to get a Magic. Like you said, there are not any in the league right now.

[Diesel]

Not me! We don't go after many offensive boards so this is completely irrelevant to the hawks. Coach bud coaches sharing the ball and efficient scoring on the offense end and getting back on defense more so than going after an offensive rebound. So I don't see your purpose of bringing this up unless your arguing with the way coach bud coaches or I should say the way of the spurs.

Even with no OReb priority, our defensive rebounding could be better and whatever offensive rebs we get would be appreciated. You guys make it sound like just because we don't OReb on purpose that we don't need a big? Really?? This game was and still is established by BIGs. You say we follow San Anton's model... Well guess the hell what... Tim Duncan aint no Little man.

[macdaddy]

Even with no OReb priority, our defensive rebounding could be better and whatever offensive rebs we get would be appreciated. You guys make it sound like just because we don't OReb on purpose that we don't need a big? Really?? This game was and still is established by BIGs. You say we follow San Anton's model... Well guess the hell what... Tim Duncan aint no Little man.

Tim Duncan ain't Tim Duncan just because he's tall. He's the most skilled power forward in the game. The spurs carry mostly average centers or play guys like Diaw there. My point is that until we find a center who is as good or better than horford then just having a tall guy isn't going to improve us that much. What's the better frontline Millsap/Horford, Horford/Splitter, Horford/Diaw, Horford/Gortat? I'd contend that Millsap/Horford is the better one. Not that Horford/Gortat isn't close but its not by itself taking us to the promised land. (plus i think gortat is overrated)

Now if we are talking about having a big off the bench then I'm right there with you bebe.

[JTB]

You finally understand my argument! That's it exactly. My argument is that we should stay mediocre. I wish more people would understand that if we get Gortat we won't be mediocre anymore and why would anyone want that. Obviously, the only way for us to stay effectively mediocre is to start two all stars up front and try to add a legit scorer. Cause nothing says elite like Marcin Gortat

Seriously though we were middle of the pack in defensive rebounding despite missing most of our centers for much of the season. Given our roster and record i'd say we about damn excelled at defensive rebounding to be 16th in the league. Gortat would be nice but seriously how often is Gortat a difference maker like he was the other night? I'd take him but not in lieu of having a real scorer because if you just swap millsap for gortat i'm not seeing where that makes us better.

Meetings this season

game 1 gortat had 12/7. Millsap had 10 rebounds

game 2 gortat had 12/10. Horford 34/15 Millsap 16/11

game 3 gortat had 14/12. Millsap 21/11 Brand 20/11 Hawks defensive rebound edge : 33-32

game 4 gortat had 12/11. Millsap 17/4 Antić 13/12 - this was a game that brand carrol korver and of course horford didn't play

So in four meetings Gortat got out rebounded in every game but one and that one Millsap and Brand managed 11 boards each. If Gortat can't dominate the boards against our supposedly pathetic rebounding and small team how's he that big of a step up?

And you are making the point I've been trying to make this whole thread!

You showed us that gortat was out rebounded by our what some people would say small c/pf combo and you also showed that our bigs dropped points on gortat no problem. Yet too many people still say we need a bigger center!...makes no sense!

If we can't get a upgrade for horford, horford need to stay starting at center.

The stats you listed also proves why I rather have a hawes over gortat or any other big that we can get because I gurantee hawes can bring down atleast 8-10 boards on his own all while also being a better offensive player.

If gortat or any other center we could get had a good offense post game ability I would change my thoughts but since there is no one out there to fill the role of a complete center I see no reason to give any center all this money like other teams have just because they are bigger and can rebound!...what about offense?

We can team rebound with hawes in the lineup! Gortat or other available bigs do nothing but get in the way and provide very little offense.

[Diesel]

Tim Duncan ain't Tim Duncan just because he's tall. He's the most skilled power forward in the game. The spurs carry mostly average centers or play guys like Diaw there. My point is that until we find a center who is as good or better than horford then just having a tall guy isn't going to improve us that much. What's the better frontline Millsap/Horford, Horford/Splitter, Horford/Diaw, Horford/Gortat? I'd contend that Millsap/Horford is the better one. Not that Horford/Gortat isn't close but its not by itself taking us to the promised land. (plus i think gortat is overrated)

Now if we are talking about having a big off the bench then I'm right there with you bebe.

All that said, in the end... the Spurs outrebound their opponents and we don't. That's the bottom line. We don't outrebound our opponents. An extra possession would be nice here and there.

[macdaddy]

And you are making the point I've been trying to make this whole thread!

You showed us that gortat was out rebounded by our what some people would say small c/pf combo and you also showed that our bigs dropped points on gortat no problem. Yet too many people still say we need a bigger center!...makes no sense!

If we can't get a upgrade for horford, horford need to stay starting at center.

The stats you listed also proves why I rather have a hawes over gortat or any other big that we can get because I gurantee hawes can bring down atleast 8-10 boards on his own all while also being a better offensive player.

If gortat or any other center we could get had a good offense post game ability I would change my thoughts but since there is no one out there to fill the role of a complete center I see no reason to give any center all this money like other teams have just because they are bigger and can rebound!...what about offense?

We can team rebound with hawes in the lineup! Gortat or other available bigs do nothing but get in the way and provide very little offense.

Yes. First part was sarcastic. I agree with you. And as i said i don't think 16th in the league in defensive rebounds is bad at all when our only bigs for half the season were Brand Millsap and Antić.

[JTB]

Even with no OReb priority, our defensive rebounding could be better and whatever offensive rebs we get would be appreciated. You guys make it sound like just because we don't OReb on purpose that we don't need a big? Really?? This game was and still is established by BIGs. You say we follow San Anton's model... Well guess the hell what... Tim Duncan aint no Little man.

Never said we don't need a BIG. Never said Tim Duncan was a small man.

Here's what I said:

I said the options you want are a waste of money and do us no good. You want the bigger center who media tells us is a rim protector and rebounder and you want ferry to give this center 10-14 mil! Cause that's what he's surely going to cost!

I say hell no! His offense is garbage, rebounding is a TEAM thing, and rim protection is overrated as hell IN TODAYS NBA.

I say if we can't get a complete center...and by that I mean a good post offensive player, rebounder, and rim protector all in one. Horford need to continue to start at center.

Another thing this hawks team doesn't have a bonafide scorer yet but what we do have is 3 possible all stars that can drop 17pts a game. If we got this big center you want Teague and horford would really have to carry the scoring load. But put hawes there to come off the bench when horford or sap is tired and he can come in provide for the offense (keep the floor spreaded for our slashers) as well as play team defense and team rebounding.

[JTB]

All that said, in the end... the Spurs outrebound their opponents and we don't. That's the bottom line. We don't outrebound our opponents. An extra possession would be nice here and there.

Well the spurs rebound as a team better than the hawks rebound as a team. It ain't all Duncan and tiago...diaw, Leonard and others are also busting their tales and providing to that number!

We are still trying go build that here in Atlanta. Grabbing a guy like DMC was a great start.