C-Viv says no major signing for the Hawks

[DrReality]

Yes, it'd be great if Danny didn't make mistakes and I think we are in agreement on that. Presumably Ferry believes Bebe was a mistake, but at least we aren't down the BK/Sund route of living with it for too long. So I'm forgiving of a mistake as it appears you are with the added caveat of being more upset about it than I am. Seems reasonable.

Ah, to remember the days of posters on this board who were afraid that Marvin or Josh might flourish in another system and make the Hawks look bad. So people argued that we should keep them! If our previous management did enough information digging and had the mentality of Danny right now, we would be in much better shape. I wish I had a John Wooden quote about not making the same mistake twice, but I don't have it handy. That is what I see here.

Re Wooden quote:  He would address the correct way to make the play, then address the mistake and then repeat the correct way.  Two positives and one negative.  

[Bahamut]

C-Viv reports Bob Petit is questionable for championship game vs. Celtics.

[AHF]

Think of it like a sacrifice bunt. You should evaluate the decision based upon the base-state, who was at bat, who was on base, who was pitching, etc. To then evaluate the move by saying the bunt worked or didn't confuses the issue. Don't use information we didn't know at the time to evaluate your decision.

 

I think a sacrifice bunt is a terrible idea except under limited circumstances that really leverage that advancing of players so that is probably a good analogy.  IMO, Ferry would have to have had something pretty darn promising to warrant dumping a first round pick (i.e., more than the mere opening of options but instead of opening of options with reason to think one or more will materialize).  Without being in Ferry's shoes, it is tough to second guess.  Whether the pick was a good one or not will end up being more clear but requires more time.

Edited July 14, 2014 by AHF

[NBASupes]

Sounds like you are making a case that cutting your losses on guys too early can be a significant mistake since development is tough to predict with any degree of certainty.  I would hate to see that happen with Bebe when we didn't use the cap space.

Edit: I agree. I don't know why I said not even. I am doing a report on the job so I am not fully in-tune. 

[NBASupes]

I don't think players are that smart at all. They hear that NY, LA, Chicago and Miami are the places be and that is where they want to play.

Most of the top players want the money and attention without the real responsibilities of being the difference maker.This place would be a great place for Lebron. He could have made the team into a winner, and he would have sold out an arena in a place that hasn't been thought of as a basketball city. Yet, no thiught was given.

I don't understand what you mean by "do this right". Yes, the team has flaws, and the Millsap/Horford duo is not the best, but centers don't grow on trees. Melo went back to NY.. Have they done things right?

Lebron could make anyone a fortune. If that's the case, comfort or talent will win out. 

[Plainview1981]

Lebron could make anyone a fortune. If that's the case, comfort or talent will win out.

But this team has made the playoffs 7 years in a row... And he will not even hear them out?

Let's face it..... Many times the team has been only one piece away.

But players are scared of trying to be the man here.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Hotlanta1981

[Vol4ever]

But this team has made the playoffs 7 years in a row... And he will not even hear them out?

Let's face it..... Many times the team has been only one piece away.

Its been that way for years and years.  The last GM that was proactive in Atlanta was Stan Kasten.  He brought in Moses Malone and Reggie Theus but we had a great owner in Ted Turner then.  

[Plainview1981]

Its been that way for years and years.  The last GM that was proactive in Atlanta was Stan Kasten.  He brought in Moses Malone and Reggie Theus but we had a great owner in Ted Turner then.

This franchise has issues, but I didn't expect it to be this bad. Even as cynical as I am.

[Guest]

This franchise has issues, but I didn't expect it to be this bad. Even as cynical as I am.

 

The oddest thing is, what the franchise needed was someone like Ferry to come in and say, "All basketball business comes through me or STTE." and present a strong front to try to counteract the past years of perceived unrest and ineptitude.

 

The problem is he's just not that good a GM at the end of the day so it's not working as well as it should.

[Goots]

I honestly don't blame Ferry for not being able to sign a legit player in free agency. He at least tried but it's the perception of this franchise that is hurting us done by previous management. I blame these dump players.

 

Gasol and Deng are morons in my opinion. Hawks are a way better situation for both if they care about winning titles right now. I just don't see how the Bulls are expected to be better than the Hawks next year. Rose has torn both ACLs in consecutive years and I can't imagine he will stay healthy much less be anywhere near the explosive player he was once before. After Rose they have Noah and role players since it appears Boozer will be gone. How is that team better than the Hawks and our current roster/depth? As for the Heat I just can't understand what Deng is thinking here. The Heat are done even with resigning Bosh. Wade is old and broken down who will probably only play half the games next year after only playing a 1/3 last year. Outside of Bosh/Wade that roster is a joke with Granger and McRoberts signings along with fillers. F*** Gasol and Deng and any of these other idiotic players that don't want to sign here. At some point we will sign a legit all star when one of these guys realizes the potential here

Edited July 14, 2014 by Goots

[Plainview1981]

I honestly don't blame Ferry for not being able to sign a legit player in free agency. He at least tried but it's the perception of this franchise that is hurting us done by previous management. I blame these dump players.

 

Gasol and Deng are morons in my opinion. Hawks are a way better situation for both if they care about winning titles right now. I just don't see how the Bulls are expected to be better than the Hawks next year. Rose has torn both ACLs in consecutive years and I can't imagine he will stay healthy much less be anywhere near the explosive player he was once before. After Rose they have Noah and role players since it appears Boozer will be gone. How is that team better than the Hawks and our current roster/depth? As for the Heat I just can't understand what Deng is thinking here. The Heat are done even with resigning Bosh. Wade is old and broken down who will probably only play half the games next year after only playing a 1/3 last year. Outside of Bosh/Wade that roster is a joke with Granger and McRoberts signings along with fillers. F*** Gasol and Deng and any of these other idiotic players that don't want to sign here. At some point we will sign a legit all star when one of these guys realizes the potential here

Yeah, I thought they would land Deng, but they didn't even get him. I know the franchise has a bad rep... But it's worse than I thought.

[Vol4ever]

I honestly don't blame Ferry for not being able to sign a legit player in free agency. He at least tried but it's the perception of this franchise that is hurting us done by previous management. I blame these dump players.

 

Gasol and Deng are morons in my opinion. Hawks are a way better situation for both if they care about winning titles right now. I just don't see how the Bulls are expected to be better than the Hawks next year. Rose has torn both ACLs in consecutive years and I can't imagine he will stay healthy much less be anywhere near the explosive player he was once before. After Rose they have Noah and role players since it appears Boozer will be gone. How is that team better than the Hawks and our current roster/depth? As for the Heat I just can't understand what Deng is thinking here. The Heat are done even with resigning Bosh. Wade is old and broken down who will probably only play half the games next year after only playing a 1/3 last year. Outside of Bosh/Wade that roster is a joke with Granger and McRoberts signings along with fillers. F*** Gasol and Deng and any of these other idiotic players that don't want to sign here. At some point we will sign a legit all star when one of these guys realizes the potential here

 

 

How in the world can you say this?   Blame the free agents?   I believe it is the GM's job to convince free agents to come to his team.  We are Hawks fans and love our team, the free agents want to make the best deal and put themselves most of the time in a position to win.  Put yourself in their shoes, the Hawks are known as a cheap franchise.  Yes we had some success last year with role players but that is temporary at best, it takes real talent to win and although we have a very good coach and system, in the end talent wins championships.  

 

Its sad but Ferry hasn't got it done this summer, BUT the summer is not over. I think he was not prepared throwing out a last minute offer to Gasol.  Most of the free agents available are gone however.

 

I will say that Pau Gasol would have been dominate in Buds system!

[Guest]

I honestly don't blame Ferry for not being able to sign a legit player in free agency. He at least tried but it's the perception of this franchise that is hurting us done by previous management. I blame these dump players.

 

Gasol and Deng are morons in my opinion. Hawks are a way better situation for both if they care about winning titles right now. I just don't see how the Bulls are expected to be better than the Hawks next year. Rose has torn both ACLs in consecutive years and I can't imagine he will stay healthy much less be anywhere near the explosive player he was once before. After Rose they have Noah and role players since it appears Boozer will be gone. How is that team better than the Hawks and our current roster/depth? As for the Heat I just can't understand what Deng is thinking here. The Heat are done even with resigning Bosh. Wade is old and broken down who will probably only play half the games next year after only playing a 1/3 last year. Outside of Bosh/Wade that roster is a joke with Granger and McRoberts signings along with fillers. F*** Gasol and Deng and any of these other idiotic players that don't want to sign here. At some point we will sign a legit all star when one of these guys realizes the potential here

 

Oh there's certainly an element that's out of his control which I don't/won't blame him for.  Atlanta just has a bad perception as a franchise.  Has for a looong time.  That said, we haven't helped ourselves.

 

I only blame Ferry for stuff that's totally within his control, the draft being one of them and our stance with free agents being another (allegedly playing hard ball, lowballing, not even considering some guys, etc.).

 

He's got to be a salesman to a degree.  It's buffoonish to a point and I'm sure he probably doesn't like it, but it's part of the gig.

[Goots]

How in the world can you say this?   Blame the free agents?   I believe it is the GM's job to convince free agents to come to his team.  We are Hawks fans and love our team, the free agents want to make the best deal and put themselves most of the time in a position to win.  Put yourself in their shoes, the Hawks are known as a cheap franchise.  Yes we had some success last year with role players but that is temporary at best, it takes real talent to win and although we have a very good coach and system, in the end talent wins championships.  

 

Its sad but Ferry hasn't got it done this summer, BUT the summer is not over. I think he was not prepared throwing out a last minute offer to Gasol.  Most of the free agents available are gone however.

 

I will say that Pau Gasol would have been dominate in Buds system!

 

What do you mean? I'm stating the Free agents clearly are not looking at the teams where they think they can win in Gasol and Deng at least. My whole point with my post is Hawks are clearly the better situation if they want to win now than either the Bulls or Heat in my opinion if you look at the rosters and depth of each team as it stands now. Of course Ferry has some duty in trying to convince free agents to come here but you have to admit a lot of damage was already done years ago by previous management. We are not a cheap franchise anymore IMO and have shown we are willing to pay more for Gasol and Deng right? They both took less money unless we had no intention of offering Deng at least 10mil. I know we offered Gasol 11mil and he took less than 7mil to go to Bulls.

[Admin]

This franchise has issues, but I didn't expect it to be this bad. Even as cynical as I am.

Since when are you cynical? {/sarcasm}

[Vol4ever]

 

 

Well it is your opinion that we are a better situation, and I agree with you but they do not.  Its sounds like Ferry offered Gasol at the last minute when he was making up his mind of where to go, don't know if that is true or not but that is what was reported.  It was also reported correct or not, that Deng was not offered the 10 million.  Deng's camp indicated that DF offered less.  If you have a stigma as a franchise you are going to have to pay more to convince a player to come here.  If you do that and it works out then the stigma is gone and things change for the franchise.  If you decide to take the lowball approach on the contract then the stigma remains are you are screwed.  I personally think that the ASG is unwilling to pay and some on the board that really disagree and that is fine, but show me ONE player that has been given a large contract under Ferry and the ASG.  Sap signed for only 9.5M so he has a payday coming as a allstar, we will see what happens.

[HawkItus]

Its been that way for years and years.  The last GM that was proactive in Atlanta was Stan Kasten.  He brought in Moses Malone and Reggie Theus but we had a great owner in Ted Turner then.  

And what did that do for us lol?  They lost in the first round.   Folks need to learn to let things play out before they make broad statements.  I've heard the doom and gloom since Ferry came aboard.  We have achieved at the same level as any of the preceding years(save last year do to injury).   Again this year we are on track to be 40+ wins and playoffs, but with a better brand of basketball and more flexibility.  That is all you can ask in this market.  Show me Chicago's AD Jordan trophy?  Show me Miami win one without Shaq or Lebron.  Show me Boston win a title without Bird or Garnett.  It doesn't happen and I don't care if Jerry West or __________ is your GM.    

[Vol4ever]

And what did that do for us lol?  They lost in the first round.   Folks need to learn to let things play out before they make broad statements.  I've heard the doom and gloom since Ferry came aboard.  We have achieved at the same level as any of the preceding years(save last year do to injury).   Again this year we are on track to be 40+ wins and playoffs, but with a better brand of basketball and more flexibility.  That is all you can ask in this market.  Show me Chicago's AD Jordan trophy?  Show me Miami win one without Shaq or Lebron.  Show me Boston win a title without Bird or Garnett.  It doesn't happen and I don't care if Jerry West or __________ is your GM.    

Well not sure where you are going here......................but I have been saying youu have to have very good players here and I think it has been stated that weve signed 2 legit allstars in 20 years?   It doesnt matter if you have all the capspace in the world if you cant use it.

 

As for Theus and Malone, at least Kasten brought them here.  

Edited July 14, 2014 by Vol4ever

[Goots]

Well it is your opinion that we are a better situation, and I agree with you but they do not.  Its sounds like Ferry offered Gasol at the last minute when he was making up his mind of where to go, don't know if that is true or not but that is what was reported.  It was also reported correct or not, that Deng was not offered the 10 million.  Deng's camp indicated that DF offered less.  If you have a stigma as a franchise you are going to have to pay more to convince a player to come here.  If you do that and it works out then the stigma is gone and things change for the franchise.  If you decide to take the lowball approach on the contract then the stigma remains are you are screwed.  I personally think that the ASG is unwilling to pay and some on the board that really disagree and that is fine, but show me ONE player that has been given a large contract under Ferry and the ASG.  Sap signed for only 9.5M so he has a payday coming as a allstar, we will see what happens.

 

 

 

 

That is a fair point but it's not like Ferry has been the GM that long. He is only going into what his 3rd year? He had to clean up the mess he was left with by trading Joe's worthless ass and clear the cap. This was really the first offseason he was going after some free agents. I know we had money last year but the only player we probably looked at was Howard. Ferry struck out this offseason in Free agency for sure but let's see what else happens. I can't believe he wouldn't of offered Deng 10mil per year if he gave Milsap 9.5mil last year. Both are all stars so I'm disappointed in Ferry if that was the case. Deng IMO would of put us over the top if healthy.

[Diesel]

C Viv hasn't exactly been a fount of knowledge.  Can we trust this? 

 

did he say "Sources Say" or "Multiple Sources"?

 

If it's Sources Say, he's just speculating.