Thabo was a starter....

[Dragitoff]

The fact some people are this happy with a carer 5 point a game player is just....sad. Truly sad. Talk about embracing mediocrity to its fullest.

 

 

I don't think that anyone is saying Thabo is better than James or Melo, but it's not like we got a guy who has zero value.  He's a great perimeter defender and has shown the ability to hit 3's in the past so those are things we can use on our team.  As tired as you are of my optimism, I'm equally tired of all the negativity around here.  Was it a slam dunk off-season?  Not really, but could it have been worse?  If the direction of the team is so horrible and you think we're a terrible franchise, jump ship and go root for another team.   

[Sothron]

I don't think that anyone is saying Thabo is better than James or Melo, but it's not like we got a guy who has zero value.  He's a great perimeter defender and has shown the ability to hit 3's in the past so those are things we can use on our team.  As tired as you are of my optimism, I'm equally tired of all the negativity around here.  Was it a slam dunk off-season?  Not really, but could it have been worse?  If the direction of the team is so horrible and you think we're a terrible franchise, jump ship and go root for another team.   

 

You do realize for his career he averages only .6 three pointers a game, right? That's point six in case you missed the . before the six. We're not talking about someone who's going to be anything close to a major offensive contributor.

 

The negativity around here is completely earned. As of right now our GM literally traded away a first round pick for nothing and our biggest signing is a guy who is a career 5 point a game player.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Let me add a little more optimism regarding Thabo.  I don't think his shot was as broke as his season 3 pt. % of 31.6% looks. Thabo started the season off in a terrible slump over the first 7 games going 3/21 from 3.  He shot well through the middle part of the season and continued to get better from 3 as the season progressed.  He then gets hurt against Memphis on Feb 28 and doesn't return until April 8.  He struggled to find his 3 pt shot after returning from injury and went 1/13 in the final 6 games of the regular season.

 

Take away the slump in the first 7 games of the season and his struggles in the last 6 of regular season when coming back from injury and Thabo shot 37.3% from 3 over the other 48 games that he played in the regular season.

 

Well if we're going to play that game . . .

 

Thabo boosted his 3 point shooting with a 7 game stretch in Feb. in which he shot 45%( 9 - 20 FG ) during that time period.  

 

Take away just those 7 games, and Thabo shot 29.6% from 3 for the year in the other 54 games he played in the regular season.

[Dragitoff]

You do realize for his career he averages only .6 three pointers a game, right? That's point six in case you missed the . before the six. We're not talking about someone who's going to be anything close to a major offensive contributor.

The negativity around here is completely earned. As of right now our GM literally traded away a first round pick for nothing and our biggest signing is a guy who is a career 5 point a game player.

This is a valid point however you must also remember he played on a team with KD and Westbrook who take a few shots per game.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Found this:

 

On Demarre -

 

In 32.1 minutes per game, Carroll averaged 11.1 points, 5.5 rebounds, 1.8 assists, and 1.5 steals per game. On defense, Carroll was the Hawks top perimeter defender, drawing the assignment of the opposing team’s best wing player -- whether they were at the two or the three. Going against the opponent’s best offensive wing night in and night out, Carroll held opponents to 40.9 percent shooting (36.8% three-point) for the season, per Synergy Sports.

His tenacious approach made him one of the league’s better defenders against screening action. Carroll fought through screens -- on and off the ball -- consistently to rank 40th against off-ball screens allowing opponents just 0.8 points per possession, and he 76th in the league against pick-and-roll ball handlers allowing just 0.75 PPP -- again per Synergy Sports. Like many of the Hawks, his defensive numbers take a hit on spot-up attempts, allowing 1.04 PPP, because the Hawks system commits heavily to protecting the paint first, which opens up opportunities for open spot-up shots.

Even still, Carroll had by most any account a very productive and effective season defensively. The Hawks' defense relied on Carroll’s length and strength to disrupt opponents on the perimeter and he took that challenge and succeeded. His 2.6 defensive win shares were second to Paul Millsap’s 4.0 for the Hawks on the season. Carroll’s 101.8 defensive rating (per NBA.com/stats) was the best for any perimeter player and 4th on the team, and his +3.4 net rating was third on the team only to Pero Antić and Al Horford.

 

 

http://www.nba.com/hawks/features/season-review-demarre-carroll

 

And Thabo:

 

"So ask yourself another question:  How many of the players in this tournament have been contributors to top defenses over their last few years?  From sixteen, your list just burned down to two players:  Danny Granger and Thabo Sefolosha.  Two players.  We’ll of course focus on Thabo here, and not the broken down Granger. (Underhanded Zing!)

Quite frankly, you won’t find a better defender available on the open market this off-season.  Last year, he posted a Defensive Win shares of 2.1 – which is better than anyone on the Pelicans other than Davis.  It’s 25% better than the second best Pelican (Aminu) and in 30% fewer minutes.

Per Synergy Stats, despite taking on the most capable wing players, Thabo was the 70th best defender of isolations, and the 49th best when defending the Pick and Roll Ballhandler.  When working on the pick and roll, his long arms resulted in a staggering turnover rate of 30.3% for opposing players. 30.3!  Combine that with solid numbers defending screen plays and dribble hand-offs, and already Sefolosha is clearly a defensive upgrade to the bumbling attempts of Aminu – who posted worse defensive scores in every category tracked by Synergy but spot-up shooting defense."

 

http://www.bourbonstreetshots.com/2014/06/11/new-orleans-pelicans-mle-tournament-caron-butler-vs-thabo-sefolosha/

 

These guys are gonna be a nightmare for our opponents next year, allowing us to bring 3 and D on the wing for 48 minutes, and totally lock down the opponent wing while they are on the floor together.

 

Per SynergySports

 

Thabo posted a 0.94 points per possession number . . . ranking him 344th in the NBA.

 

Yes, he posted above average numbers when guarding guys in isolation and in the pick and roll.   So why were his overall ppp number so bad?   They were that bad because his isolation defensive plays only represented 11.7% of his total defensive play types.

 

What was his most used defensive play type?   Spot Up defense, which represented 34.9% of his defensive play types.  His numbers on that particular play type?

 

 

1.19 ppp . . . 353rd in the NBA . . . 48.3% FG . . . 44.6% 3FG

 

 

If ( per the article ) that the Hawks defensive system opens up opportunities for spot up shooting, Thabo may be a HUGE LIABILITY here, if he played like he did at OKC vs spot up shooting.  

 

Normally, when you're giving up those types of high percentages on Spot Ups, it either means that you're constantly out of position on defense and can't get back to your man . . . or you're losing the athletic ability and/or DESIRE to close out on shooters.

[Sothron]

This is a valid point however you must also remember he played on a team with KD and Westbrook who take a few shots per game.

 

He didn't do any better in Chicago either though. And FWIW the Thunder have always been looking for a guy to step up and make outside shots due to the attention those two guys get. Thabo played so poorly last season they not only took him out as a starter they took him completely out of the rotation. Their GM in Presti is one of the best in the NBA and he made no effort to bring Thabo back.

 

I hope the guy plays well for us as I do all Hawks players but we'll have to wait and see. The main point you seem to be missing though is that the moves Ferry made were to get a major upgrade in FA and we got nothing like that. People have a right to be negative about it.

[Dragitoff]

He didn't do any better in Chicago either though. And FWIW the Thunder have always been looking for a guy to step up and make outside shots due to the attention those two guys get. Thabo played so poorly last season they not only took him out as a starter they took him completely out of the rotation. Their GM in Presti is one of the best in the NBA and he made no effort to bring Thabo back.

 

I hope the guy plays well for us as I do all Hawks players but we'll have to wait and see. The main point you seem to be missing though is that the moves Ferry made were to get a major upgrade in FA and we got nothing like that. People have a right to be negative about it.

 

I won't argue that and I have to say I was a little disappointed as I was last off-season when we seemed to have signed a redundant player in Paul Millsap; however that worked out quite well for us.  I'm not writing this season off as some are, and maybe you're not Sothron because you seem to be more logical than many of the negative nellies here, before it even starts.  Heck, the offseason isn't over yet so who knows what we may still do via trade or even with some of the remaining FA's.  Until Mack and Scott are officially re-signed or they guarantee spots to Patterson and/or Muscala, there are still roster spots available for this team. 

[Sothron]

I won't argue that and I have to say I was a little disappointed as I was last off-season when we seemed to have signed a redundant player in Paul Millsap; however that worked out quite well for us.  I'm not writing this season off as some are, and maybe you're not Sothron because you seem to be more logical than many of the negative nellies here, before it even starts.  Heck, the offseason isn't over yet so who knows what we may still do via trade or even with some of the remaining FA's.  Until Mack and Scott are officially re-signed or they guarantee spots to Patterson and/or Muscala, there are still roster spots available for this team. 

 

I think this team barring injury should be a 40-45 win team and make the playoffs, absolutely. I also have said in multiple posts I was giving Ferry the offseason to prove himself. The offseason is not over yet. But, to be fair, it doesn't look too good so far.

[macdaddy]

I think this team barring injury should be a 40-45 win team and make the playoffs, absolutely. I also have said in multiple posts I was giving Ferry the offseason to prove himself. The offseason is not over yet. But, to be fair, it doesn't look too good so far.

 

While it may only be incremental improvement, do you think the hawks with a healthy Horford, Thabo, and Bazemore beat Indy?   I sure do.   I'm not seeing an east team that is undoubtedly better than the hawks.   The Bulls with a healthy Rose, Noah, and Pau are maybe the best but those are very big question marks.   The Cavs certainly but they have to come together.    

[turnermx]

Somebody has to sacrifice offense when you have Durant + Westbrook and Thabo was that guy. Our team needed defense off the bench and to back up Demarre when he is injured or in need of rest. Thabo was signed for that purpose .. Because of our lack of depth and lack of perimeter D last year we would get hurt when Demarre was resting on the bench or injured. We had a very poor record without DMC. I dont have the exact W-L in front of me but i know it was bad.

Edited July 15, 2014 by turnermx

[AHF]

Let's not overstate Thabo 'sacrificing' his offense to allow for Durant and Westbrook to dominate the ball.  Thabo is a very limited offensive player.  It would not make sense for them to give him the ball more because he doesn't do much with it.  His best case scenario is being a Bruce Bowen type who can hit some 3's but not contribute any real volume to the offense.  Maybe Thabo does that in Atlanta (i.e., hits about 1 per game) but he isn't going to reinvent himself here.  

 

If you are expecting  even 12-13 pp36 from Thabo (i.e., DMC numbers), then prepare to be disappointed.  

 

Thabo's value will come almost exclusively from his ability to mark up the opposing team's best perimeter player on D.

Edited July 15, 2014 by AHF