How the Atlanta Hawks Regime Fell Apart (ESPN) Great Read!

[Guest]

Without Ferry coming in and changing all the stuff - It would have remianed the staus quo with meddlesome Gearon.

 Stuck in a cycle of having a 2nd round and out ceiling, bad marketing like 'Insanitigue, no player development, no scouting department. Just doing enough to pretend. Ferry did rub people the wrong way but sometimes to make drastic changes ish happens.

I'm just glad the ASG is gone.

Edited October 12, 2015 by JayBirdHawk

[Jdawgflow]

I am curious about the comment from that ESPN radio interview jetset posted where they mention Bud recommending Ferry resign after Feery went out of his way to get Levenson to hire him.  They seemed to be insinuating that Bud threw his Buddy under the bus for more power rather than help him out like Deery did for him.  I am not sure what to think about this.  Thoughts?

[JETSET]

I am curious about the comment from that ESPN radio interview jetset posted where they mention Bud recommending Ferry resign after Feery went out of his way to get Levenson to hire him.  They seemed to be insinuating that Bud threw his Buddy under the bus for more power rather than help him out like Deery did for him.  I am not sure what to think about this.  Thoughts?

That's what I took from the convo as well and it really makes me question Bud's character.  Ferry sticks his neck out for Bud and gets him an interview, Bud bombs it horribly and Ferry pulls out all of the stops and gets Pop on the phone with Levenson during the Finals.  Levenson is impressed and gives Bud a second shot and let's Ferry have his way with the Bud hiring.  What does Bud do next?  He rewards Ferry by getting a DUI in his first month on the job.  Ferry stood behind him through it and handed him the keys to a Ferrari that just needed a good bath.  I would have to show major loyalty to a guy who did that for me and the last thing I would do is kick him while he is down. 

Either way, I'm still ecstatic to have Bud and I hope him and Wilcox are able to take us to the promise land in the next couple of years.  I would love to see us win a ring with this group of guys (esp Horford and Teague).

[Guest]

That's what I took from the convo as well and it really makes me question Bud's character.  Ferry sticks his neck out for Bud and gets him an interview, Bud bombs it horribly and Ferry pulls out all of the stops and gets Pop on the phone with Levenson during the Finals.  Levenson is impressed and gives Bud a second shot and let's Ferry have his way with the Bud hiring.  What does Bud do next?  He rewards Ferry by getting a DUI in his first month on the job.  Ferry stood behind him through it and handed him the keys to a Ferrari that just needed a good bath.  I would have to show major loyalty to a guy who did that for me and the last thing I would do is kick him while he is down. 

Either way, I'm still ecstatic to have Bud and I hope him and Wilcox are able to take us to the promise land in the next couple of years.  I would love to see us win a ring with this group of guys (esp Horford and Teague).

Agree with this.  However, what would be the end game for Budz in this scenario.  He'd have to also resign.  Ferry's not feeding Budz kids.  I speculate that it's highly likely he and Ferry discussed how he (Budz) should handle it from his end.

Like, "Look dude, it's looking like I'm (Ferry) gonna be outta here.  You have a good thing going, don't blow it just to support me ..."  Then they had a heart-felt bro-hug and Ferry throws his war-torn torso onto the grenade as the helicopter whisks Budz away.  "I'll never forgetchu, Dannyyyyyyy!1!!1!!"

Yeah, probably went just like that.

Or perhaps the arrogant Ferry burned the Budz bridge on his way out.  All in all, we don't know enough to tarnish Budz' name at this point.  JMEO

[JETSET]

Agree with this.  However, what would be the end game for Budz in this scenario.  He'd have to also resign.  Ferry's not feeding Budz kids.  I speculate that it's highly likely he and Ferry discussed how he (Budz) should handle it from his end.

Like, "Look dude, it's looking like I'm (Ferry) gonna be outta here.  You have a good thing going, don't blow it just to support me ..."  Then they had a heart-felt bro-hug and Ferry throws his war-torn torso onto the grenade as the helicopter whisks Budz away.  "I'll never forgetchu, Dannyyyyyyy!1!!1!!"

Yeah, probably went just like that.

Or perhaps the arrogant Ferry burned the Budz bridge on his way out.  All in all, we don't know enough to tarnish Budz' name at this point.  JMEO

I agree that we don't know enough but what Windhorst suggests is the opposite of your first suggestion.  He says that Bud suggested to Ferry that he should step down before the season began and Ferry waited it out until he was fired after the season.  It seems like Ferry clearly wanted the job back and had no intentions of willfully stepping down.

It's all speculation and I'm not trying to "tarnish" Bud.  He just may not be the Saint that he is portrayed to be around here.  At the end of the day, I could really care less as long as he continues to have 60 win seasons and hopefully a better showing in the playoffs.

[Guest]

I agree that we don't know enough but what Windhorst suggests is the opposite of your first suggestion.  He says that Bud suggested to Ferry that he should step down before the season began and Ferry waited it out until he was fired after the season.  It seems like Ferry clearly wanted the job back and had no intentions of willfully stepping down.

It's all speculation and I'm not trying to "tarnish" Bud.  He just may not be the Saint that he is portrayed to be around here.  At the end of the day, I could really care less as long as he continues to have 60 win seasons and hopefully a better showing in the playoffs.

I should've prefaced what I said with the fact that I don't believe anything Windhorst says unless the puppetmaster aka LeighBron has his hand up his rear-end.  Seriously though, there's no reason to suggest he or anyone else at BSPN has any 'sources' reliable enough to suggest his report is accurate.

[JETSET]

I should've prefaced what I said with the fact that I don't believe anything Windhorst says unless the puppetmaster aka LeighBron has his hand up his rear-end.  Seriously though, there's no reason to suggest he or anyone else at BSPN has any 'sources' reliable enough to suggest his report is accurate.

They clearly had access to internal emails within the Hawks organization.  I would join you in calling b.s. on Windhorst's statements if it wasn't for those.

Edited October 13, 2015 by JETSET

[lethalweapon3]

Budenholzer very much owed his job to Ferry. His former Spurs colleague had pleaded with Levenson that the Gregg Popovich assistant was the man for the position. Yet Budenholzer felt Ferry should resign, lest the Hawks be subsumed in disruption when training camp opened, and he made his wishes known in a heartfelt conversation with Ferry and Levenson at that time.

Shakespearean as it looks at the surface, I didn't perceive this as a display of Bud being ungrateful.

Ferry needed Bud in Atlanta much more than Bud needed Bud in Atlanta. Ferry went above and beyond to convince first Bud (several times, probably), then Bruce (at least twice), that it was worth the effort to bring Bud to Atlanta.

Once Bud uprooted his family from Texas to come here, rather than pleasantly bide his time in anticipation of whatever Pop was going to do, Ferry's legacy became enmeshed with Bud's success and Bud's comfort level with the organization. It made sense that Ferry would be there in Bud's corner in the aftermath of the DUI charge: Ferry left himself with no other choice but to support him 100%, by his own design.

The common thread with Bud+Ferry, Bruce, and Junior was that none of them wanted to be looked at as the reason Atlanta's franchise (the basketball one, anyway) imploded. Bud and Ferry routinely disagreed on particulars (e.g., Deng) but had enough of a bond to understand their collaborative decisions were in the best interest of the franchise.

Bud stomping out the door behind Ferry, as some display of solidarity, would have pulled the rug out from under Atlanta's upcoming 2014-15 campaign, after an encouraging 2013-14 finish, unfairly leaving players with a leadership vacuum (to be filled by Bruce? Junior?), while also tarring Bud with the same brush that was smacking Ferry at the time.

Bud insisting on Ferry's immediate reinstatement by the A$G regime, using threats of resignation/leaving post-contract-expiration as a strong-arm, would leave the similar impression that this coach was True to Danny and not Atlanta, a stance that might not reflect well on a man fresh off a 38-44 season, should he then go hunting for an NBA coaching job anywhere outside of San Antonio.

Ferry's return (with or without the threats of Bud uprooting) under the current ownership regime posed the specter of a season-long, momentum-draining distraction for Bud and the players.

Bud recognized that none of those options was necessary. Instead, he could convince Ferry that he should step down and let a new regime decide whether to bring him back, and he could convince Ferry and Levenson that he (and Wes) could carry the mantle in Ferry's indeterminate absence. No GM would approximate what Ferry was trying to accomplish here as well as Bud. Ferry, however begrudgingly, understood this.

I wanted an "If He Goes, I Go!" OK-Corral-style showdown as much as the next guy. But I understand how Bud surmised going that route could be impractical for him, his family, and the players he left a cushy situation in San Antonio to coach.

~lw3

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Respect is one thing, pandering is another.  Expecting you to be competent at your job isn't exactly a sign of disrespect but when you've been surrounded by those who tell you you can do no wrong because of your alleged God status then I can see how that could come across as disrespectful.  Reality is often hard for many to cope with.

I think it was a culmination of things that led to the animosity Gearon and Nique had toward Ferry, highlighted in this section of the article:  

Gearon felt Ferry was fundamentally disrespectful of seemingly every institution within the organization, including its most cherished player.

I've dealt with this at my workplace recently.  Of course you expect change when new leadership comes in. But you also expect to have a chance to prove your worth before being terminated ( even if that's not how things actually work ).

So when "good people" get fired with little or no remorse, that rubs the other managers and underlings the wrong way.

 I've said from the jump that the reason I didn't care for Ferry at all, was because he was an elitist a-hole.  And it's a good chance that most people in the Hawks organization felt the same way.  That's why no one went to bat for that dude when everything came down.

 

 

[AHF]

With Nique and Ferry also remember that Nique has wanted to be GM for some time.  I am sure he resented the fact that Ferry was in that chair rather than him and I'm sure Gearon fed that as part of his resentment and hatred of Ferry.

[Jdawgflow]

Shakespearean as it looks at the surface, I didn't perceive this as a display of Bud being ungrateful.

Ferry needed Bud in Atlanta much more than Bud needed Bud in Atlanta. Ferry went above and beyond to convince first Bud (several times, probably), then Bruce (at least twice), that it was worth the effort to bring Bud to Atlanta.

Once Bud uprooted his family from Texas to come here, rather than pleasantly bide his time in anticipation of whatever Pop was going to do, Ferry's legacy became enmeshed with Bud's success and Bud's comfort level with the organization. It made sense that Ferry would be there in Bud's corner in the aftermath of the DUI charge: Ferry left himself with no other choice but to support him 100%, by his own design.

The common thread with Bud+Ferry, Bruce, and Junior was that none of them wanted to be looked at as the reason Atlanta's franchise (the basketball one, anyway) imploded. Bud and Ferry routinely disagreed on particulars (e.g., Deng) but had enough of a bond to understand their collaborative decisions were in the best interest of the franchise.

Bud stomping out the door behind Ferry, as some display of solidarity, would have pulled the rug out from under Atlanta's upcoming 2014-15 campaign, after an encouraging 2013-14 finish, unfairly leaving players with a leadership vacuum (to be filled by Bruce? Junior?), while also tarring Bud with the same brush that was smacking Ferry at the time.

Bud insisting on Ferry's immediate reinstatement by the A$G regime, using threats of resignation/leaving post-contract-expiration as a strong-arm, would leave the similar impression that this coach was True to Danny and not Atlanta, a stance that might not reflect well on a man fresh off a 38-44 season, should he then go hunting for an NBA coaching job anywhere outside of San Antonio.

Ferry's return (with or without the threats of Bud uprooting) under the current ownership regime posed the specter of a season-long, momentum-draining distraction for Bud and the players.

Bud recognized that none of those options was necessary. Instead, he could convince Ferry that he should step down and let a new regime decide whether to bring him back, and he could convince Ferry and Levenson that he (and Wes) could carry the mantle in Ferry's indeterminate absence. No GM would approximate what Ferry was trying to accomplish here as well as Bud. Ferry, however begrudgingly, understood this.

I wanted an "If He Goes, I Go!" OK-Corral-style showdown as much as the next guy. But I understand how Bud surmised going that route could be impractical for him, his family, and the players he left a cushy situation in San Antonio to coach.

~lw3

this is probably the best answer to this question I will be able to find anywhere except for asking Bud or Ferry myself.  Good thoughts!