Most Feared Defense in the League??

[Diesel]

We have kind of hinted around it, however, we have the likelihood of being the most feared defense in the league.  If you think about it, last year, we had Horf, Millsap, Korver, Baze, and Teague as our starting five.  We were one of the better defensive teams in the league... probably 3rd behind OKC and San Antonio.  However, with the additions we have made over the summer, we have amped up our defense.

Howard = Better rebounder & Shot blocker than Horf.

Dennis = Better on Ball defender than Teague.

Not to mention, Humphries and Splitter coming back and the addition of Jack...

So my question.   Have we amped up our defense enough to become the most feared defensive team in the league?

 

[Guest]

I'm biased so I say yes.

Dennis

Baze

Thabo

Sap

Dwight

 

to end games that's just flat out scary.

 

If we aren't the best, we are definitely top 2 or 3.

[Diesel]

With the dismantle of both the Spurs and OKC, we're the best by default... Chicago has moved up.  However, we have rebounding now. We are a lot more scary than we're given credit for being. 

 

[AHF]

I don't think we rank top on the fear list until we show it with this team but we have the makings of a very good D.

[hazer]

1 hour ago, Spud2Nique said:

I'm biased so I say yes.

Dennis

Baze

Thabo

Sap

Dwight

 

to end games that's just flat out scary.

 

If we aren't the best, we are definitely top 2 or 3.

I've been calling that lineup "The Granite Curtain".

[BigDog90]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

We have kind of hinted around it, however, we have the likelihood of being the most feared defense in the league.  If you think about it, last year, we had Horf, Millsap, Korver, Baze, and Teague as our starting five.  We were one of the better defensive teams in the league... probably 3rd behind OKC and San Antonio.  However, with the additions we have made over the summer, we have amped up our defense.

Howard = Better rebounder & Shot blocker than Horf.

Dennis = Better on Ball defender than Teague.

Not to mention, Humphries and Splitter coming back and the addition of Jack...

So my question.   Have we amped up our defense enough to become the most feared defensive team in the league?

 

On paper they should be great but on the court, I don't think people will be scared of the Hawks. They don't really have any goons.

[RedDawg#8]

I truly believe defense should and will be our calling card. Ive really looked at this from a lot of angles too. Everybody focuses on the offense  and rightly so but it really does go hand in hand. We were one of the best transition offense teams in the league. Defense was a key reason why. Stops and turnovers lead to easy offense and more importantly, extra possessions. People get so concerned about who is going to score and do this and that. not realizing that we can only go so far in the halfcourt without a player that can slow it down and get his. But if we can force more misses, bad passes, 24 second violations, and couple it with better defensive rebounding, then you are off and running and taking the steam out of even the most superstar laden squads.

Then you sprinkle in better offensive execution and more shots at the rim as opposed to just jumpshots and we have the ingredients of a true contender.

[RedDawg#8]

24 minutes ago, BigDog90 said:

On paper they should be great but on the court, I don't think people will be scared of the Hawks. They don't really have any goons.

They didn't fear us in 2015 either until it was too late and we were up double digits in the standings. They don't have to be afraid to get knocked the hell out. We just need to show up every night ready to punch first unlike last season when the starters looked like straight garbage in the first quarters of games.

Which is another case for our D. Jump shots come and go even when they are wide open, you can just be having an off game. Defense never quits though. You can come out from the tip-off with the mindset that you are going to control that end of the court and even if the opponent makes every tough shot, they are going to feel it and eventually slow down.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, AHF said:

I don't think we rank top on the fear list until we show it with this team but we have the makings of a very good D.

 

38 minutes ago, BigDog90 said:

On paper they should be great but on the court, I don't think people will be scared of the Hawks. They don't really have any goons.

If you think "fear" in terms of being respected (not necessarily fear of being molly-whopped), we should rank near the top.  However, as perpetual wet-blanketeer @AHF says, that respect won't just be given to us.  We'll have to go out and ... earn it like they said in that old Smith Barney commercial.

[DS17Fanboy]

Mind that we also where top D because of not going after second chances and Horford being a great leaper. He is also elite at taking over switches and shutting passing lanes while giving up the rim action. So we will see a whole new D. It remains to be seen if it will be better. I doubt it will. But we will be better at the rim no doubt.

[thecampster]

You need about 40 games for Prince/Bembrey to adjust to pro style defense and then yes. You completely left Prince out of the discussion. He has very real potential and an amazing mentor in Thabo.

[BigDog90]

57 minutes ago, kg01 said:

 

If you think "fear" in terms of being respected (not necessarily fear of being molly-whopped), we should rank near the top.  However, as perpetual wet-blanketeer @AHF says, that respect won't just be given to us.  We'll have to go out and ... earn it like they said in that old Smith Barney commercial.

I just want to see some of these guards be scared driving in the paint. Kyrie, IT, LeBron, etc. literally sleep walked in the paint. First play somebody need to lay them out with a block, they won't drive in the paint no more.

[AHF]

32 minutes ago, thecampster said:

You need about 40 games for Prince/Bembrey to adjust to pro style defense and then yes. You completely left Prince out of the discussion. He has very real potential and an amazing mentor in Thabo.

Both Prince and Bembry have a chance to be very good defense after some seasoning.  They have much better tools than our non-Thabo wings from last year.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

You need about 40 games for Prince/Bembrey to adjust to pro style defense and then yes. You completely left Prince out of the discussion. He has very real potential and an amazing mentor in Thabo.

 I can't put my trust in a midround rookie.  It has never fared well for us Hawks fans.  Shall I remind you  (think of their rookie Year) ?

Anthony Avent, Adam Keefe, Doug Edwards,  Alan Henderson, Cal Bowdler, Dion Glover, DeMarr Johnson, Boris Diaw, Josh Smith*, Jeff Teague,   John Jenkins, Damian Jones,  & Adriene  Payne.

Josh Smith is the only one to have a good rookie year.  

I hope that Prince and Bembrey will surprise, but my expectation is that they have 1 year in Bud U before they can be impactful. 

 

[High5]

Horford is a very good defender in his own right. Let's not forget that. Howard brings a different defensive style, which may or may not be more effective on our team. I'm optimistic, though. If Howard can defend at a high level in the paint then maybe we won't have to leave so many 3pt shooters open (in addition to possibly improved perimeter defenders). Also the extra rebounds will take extra possessions away. We'll see. 

[thecampster]

5 hours ago, High5 said:

Horford is a very good defender in his own right. Let's not forget that. Howard brings a different defensive style, which may or may not be more effective on our team. I'm optimistic, though. If Howard can defend at a high level in the paint then maybe we won't have to leave so many 3pt shooters open (in addition to possibly improved perimeter defenders). Also the extra rebounds will take extra possessions away. We'll see. 

I've posted on this a few times, the numbers don't bear out the narrative. When playing the PF, Horford's Opponent PER was a paltry 13.5. But when playing the center, his opponent posted a 19.4 PER. Howard's opponent managed a 17.9.  Comparing to a few other centers in the league,  Cousins opponents scored a 17.8 PER at center, Tristan Thompson's a 17.8, Gortat's against a 17.2, Gasol- 15.4, Bogut 16.4. At least half the centers in the league held their opponent's PER lower than Horford.

Looking at Horford's opponent PER, the difference is rebounding. Horford scored a - 4.6 rebounds differential against opposing centers per 48. Rebounding for a big man is 1/2 of your defense. Horford no longer is in the right position to be effective on the defensive end.

[thecampster]

Thoughts on Defense and Rebounding, from some of the greatest basketball minds of our time. Read and think about the effect Al had, every time he drifted away from the basket.

“No rebounds – no rings” – Pat Riley

“I feel all great teams have two things in common: defense and rebounding. So, we stress defense and rebounding every day as the most important aspects in the game to win” – Larry Brown

“Good basketball always starts with good defense!” – Bob Knight

“The difference between a good defensive team and a bad defensive team is as little as three possessions” – Brad Stevens

“The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot” – Bill Russell

“I’m looking for activity. I put players in and take them out based on effort and defense, not making or missing shots” – Doc Rivers

“Winning is more related to good defense than good offense” – Dr. Jack Ramsay

“What do you do to help us win when you’re not scoring baskets?” – John Calipari

“My philosophy of defense is to keep the pressure on an opponent until you get to his emotions” – John Wooden

"Basketball is a simple game. Your goal is penetration, get the ball close to the basket, and there are three ways to do that. Pass, dribble and offensive rebound” – Phil Jackson

“You don’t need great skill to be a tough rebounder; being a rebounder is all about effort, determination, and physicality” – Mike Malone

[High5]

2 hours ago, thecampster said:

I've posted on this a few times, the numbers don't bear out the narrative. When playing the PF, Horford's Opponent PER was a paltry 13.5. But when playing the center, his opponent posted a 19.4 PER. Howard's opponent managed a 17.9.  Comparing to a few other centers in the league,  Cousins opponents scored a 17.8 PER at center, Tristan Thompson's a 17.8, Gortat's against a 17.2, Gasol- 15.4, Bogut 16.4. At least half the centers in the league held their opponent's PER lower than Horford.

Looking at Horford's opponent PER, the difference is rebounding. Horford scored a - 4.6 rebounds differential against opposing centers per 48. Rebounding for a big man is 1/2 of your defense. Horford no longer is in the right position to be effective on the defensive end.

I don't find much value in looking at his opposite number's PER. You can find plenty of examples of that not meaning a whole lot. For example, Korver defended SFs about as well as Kawhi (13.2 vs. 12.7) and was elite at shutting down SGs (9.7). Our defensive was very much a team effort and Horford was a crucial piece of that. Howard can be, too, but like I said, he won't do all the same things. Better or worse overall remains to be seen. 

[DS17Fanboy]

vor 12 Stunden, Diesel sagte:

 I can't put my trust in a midround rookie.  It has never fared well for us Hawks fans.  Shall I remind you  (think of their rookie Year) ?

Anthony Avent, Adam Keefe, Doug Edwards,  Alan Henderson, Cal Bowdler, Dion Glover, DeMarr Johnson, Boris Diaw, Josh Smith*, Jeff Teague,   John Jenkins, Damian Jones,  & Adriene  Payne.

Josh Smith is the only one to have a good rookie year.  

I hope that Prince and Bembrey will surprise, but my expectation is that they have 1 year in Bud U before they can be impactful. 

 

Most elite defenders where later draft picks. There is something about not being flashy and having to work yourself from the bottom up. Prince and Bembry(not as much) also have the body types and skillset to become that way. Unlike the Hawks rookies you listed. But indeed, its a bit much to see it the first year.

Edited August 2, 2016 by DS17Fanboy

[Diesel]

13 hours ago, High5 said:

Horford is a very good defender in his own right. Let's not forget that. Howard brings a different defensive style, which may or may not be more effective on our team. I'm optimistic, though. If Howard can defend at a high level in the paint then maybe we won't have to leave so many 3pt shooters open (in addition to possibly improved perimeter defenders). Also the extra rebounds will take extra possessions away. We'll see. 

I was looking at the nimbers.   Last year, we were the best (BEST) team when it came to defensive FG%.  That means that teams shot a worse percentage on us than any other team in the league.  However, we were 3rd worse in defensive rebounding.   We were third behind the 76ers and the Lakers.   What that tells me is that we had NBA championship defense and NBA Lottery rebounding.   

I think with the moves we made, we fixed our rebounding a little bit.   I think we'll be closer to the league average if not better than the league average.  I suspect that we actually made our defensive FG%  better.   This is basketball.  I think it will help us keep teams from scoring.   I supposed that we will be one of those boring teams to watch because we will keep teams under 90 points for the most part.  Teams may not fear playing us, but I believe that they will hate coming to Atlanta.