BS article on yahoo.

[macdaddy]

13 minutes ago, AHF said:

Agreed.  He is still a very good player but he is the same guy he was here - an ideal fit as a #3 on a championship team.  But the narrative has changed to make it seem like he is this legit superstar #1 scorer now that he is in Boston.  That narrative both pisses people off here when we enjoyed his best work and he wasn't regarded like that and it is easy pickings for sniping.  Saying he is going to draw double teams in the post, that he will be one of the best rebounders in the league, that he is a true #1 scoring option for a contender, and that he is a true post scorer is just silly.  And everyone of those things have been said.

If he averages anywhere near 9+ rebounds this season then i'll be super pissed knowing he dogged it last season.   

[AUhawksfan]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

I agree with all that including that I want to poo poo him.    I love the guy actually and I won't ever boo him.   But for such a solid guy and great player he didn't handle his leaving with very much grace.   I really don't have much against him though.  It's really the media fawning all over him and the Celtics when they rarely said much at all about him while he was a hawk.

The only thing I remember a Celtics related person saying when he was a Hawk was Heinsohn: "The additional encouraging part is if they can go out and stay aggressive at both ends of the floor, they can beat this team because (Al) Horford, as much as you think he’s a great player, he’s not a great player. Get a man on him and he has trouble scoring.”

Awkward.....though I'm sure Hensohn is oozing everything Al now that he is wearing green.

3 hours ago, bleachkit said:

I still think we should of kept him. He's solid, hes a great mid range shooter, good passer, good rebounder, good defender, High BBIQ.  He's not Wilt Chamberlain or anything, but he is a good player. Everyone just wants to poo poo him now that he left. 

You don't think we tried?  He had the chance to get more guaranteed money with us with an extra year and a chance to pair with Dwight down low and he still ran for the Celtics.  You can't keep someone that doesn't want to be here.

[ATLien_]

23 hours ago, macdaddy said:

If he averages anywhere near 9+ rebounds this season then i'll be super pissed knowing he dogged it last season.   

I strongly disagree; he will average close to 9 rebounds a game and it will be because he won't be asked to be on the perimeter protecting Jeff Teague and Kyle Korver. All  the hedging and trapping he did here had him out of rebounding position. He was the anchor of our defense that made opponents shoot further away from the basket than anyone else. There should also be more rebounds available with all the bad and volume shooters the Celtics have. 

Thomas  will be the only weak defender on that starting unit, so I expect to see pre Bud rebounding numbers. 

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, ATLien_ said:

I strongly disagree; he will average close to 9 rebounds a game and it will be because he won't be asked to be on the perimeter protecting Jeff Teague and Kyle Korver. All  the hedging and trapping he did here had him out of rebounding position. He was the anchor of our defense that made opponents shoot further away from the basket than anyone else. There should also be more rebounds available with all the bad and volume shooters the Celtics have. 

Thomas  will be the only weak defender on that starting unit, so I expect to see pre Bud rebounding numbers. 

You're saying our system kept him from rebounding?  Laugh. Out. Loud.

[ATLien_]

9 minutes ago, kg01 said:

You're saying our system kept him from rebounding?  Laugh. Out. Loud.

No I said having two sieves on defense at guard kept him out of rebounding position because he was the designated help man. He also played more of a shot blocking role than in the past. Hence the career  highs in blocks. 

No need to argue the proof  will be in the pudding. When his rebounding goes back up with the Celtics the butt hurt among  you will claim a 4 time Allstar mailed it in despite being universally lauded by NBA coaches  over his career for the type of pro he is and his work effort.

We will get killed by stretch bigs and on switches with Dwight. Certain teams will able to exploit this. Bud is going to have to come up with a way to run people off the perimeter and funnel them  to Dwight. That's the only way our  defense  can be as good. It will be the opposite of how we played defense before which was to increase opponent shot distance as much as possible by pressuring and switching. 

[Guest]

I hear you.  If his boards increase, it could indeed be a manifestation of the phenomenon you suggested.

However, I think it was clear he changed his style of play after his second pec tear independent of the system he was in.  If he returns to that pre-tear style of play for BOS it will indeed be a clear indication that folks' thinking he mailed it in were not totally unfounded.

And the very last thing I'll rely on w.r.t. anything Hawks - related is the opinions of the collective experts (sic) around the NBA.

[AHF]

On 10/22/2016 at 10:24 AM, ATLien_ said:

No I said having two sieves on defense at guard kept him out of rebounding position because he was the designated help man. He also played more of a shot blocking role than in the past. Hence the career  highs in blocks. 

No need to argue the proof  will be in the pudding. When his rebounding goes back up with the Celtics the butt hurt among  you will claim a 4 time Allstar mailed it in despite being universally lauded by NBA coaches  over his career for the type of pro he is and his work effort.

We will get killed by stretch bigs and on switches with Dwight. Certain teams will able to exploit this. Bud is going to have to come up with a way to run people off the perimeter and funnel them  to Dwight. That's the only way our  defense  can be as good. It will be the opposite of how we played defense before which was to increase opponent shot distance as much as possible by pressuring and switching. 

The stretch big is likely to be guarded by Sap right?  I get the argument that if Dwight gets switched onto the stretch big that he'll struggle more there but most teams have their stretch paired with a more traditional big man.  For example, Sap will check Love while Dwight checks Tristan.

 

I agree that the system was a factor in his rebounding but it does not account for the full drop.  He just didn't battle in the post for boards when he did have position the last two years like he did pre-pec tear.  The single biggest factor in rebounding is "want to" and Horf didn't want to the last few years like he did early in his career.

[Thomas]

He didn't seem to want to rebound for twelve million a year so paying a lot more for him to rebound carries quite a bit of risk with it. Interesting season coming up for both teams and I wish I could hear what Heinsohn is saying in 2017 right now. Will he be praising Al for his boards or bitching about Al's treatment from the refs, etc... 

[ATLien_]

7 hours ago, AHF said:

The stretch big is likely to be guarded by Sap right?  

The single biggest factor in rebounding is "want to" and Horf didn't want to the last few years like he did early in his career.

I saw enough of Sap guarding Love and Channing Frye in the playoffs. After record setting 3 point shooting I'm  not convinced this is good either. I like Sap much more against guys that try to out quick or physical him. 

As to your second point I think there's some truth to it, but I think what your asked to do can change your mentality and set the tone. I'll give a football analogy. Have you ever seen a spread offense team that passed 65%of the time be physical on the goaline? There all about speed and fooling people, so when they have to just lineup and bang out  a yard on the goaline they can't do it. Oregon  was notorious for this and would run into an SEC school and get dominated on the line of scrimmage. Oregon had great talent but their style made them soft. My overall point is you're only as good at what you practice and what you practice against. Alabama wears people out because the practice man whoop  a man all day everyday, and probably face better competition in practice than in games. What did we ask Al to do and who was he practicing against Muscala? Then Tristan  Thompson shows  up and you want him to turn into a banger. By the way Tristan dominated Sap too when he was on him. 

I think Boston will ask Al to be in the paint more and are a blue collar physical team. I expect him to adjust just like he did with Woody and just like he did with Bud. Al is an amoeba.

Edited October 24, 2016 by ATLien_

[AHF]

If Al gets soft by being coach by Bud but Sap plays hard, then I am not sure you and I are saying radically different things.  I call that "six of one, half dozen of the other."  

[ATLien_]

17 hours ago, AHF said:

If Al gets soft by being coach by Bud but Sap plays hard, then I am not sure you and I are saying radically different things.  I call that "six of one, half dozen of the other."  

Fair enough. It will be interesting to track.

If they ask Millsap to play the role Al did his rebounding will definitely decline, but I don't  expect us to play that way anymore. We have better wing  defenders and I expect less helping. 

[Vol4ever]

On 10/22/2016 at 11:11 AM, kg01 said:

I hear you.  If his boards increase, it could indeed be a manifestation of the phenomenon you suggested.

However, I think it was clear he changed his style of play after his second pec tear independent of the system he was in.  If he returns to that pre-tear style of play for BOS it will indeed be a clear indication that folks' thinking he mailed it in were not totally unfounded.

And the very last thing I'll rely on w.r.t. anything Hawks - related is the opinions of the collective experts (sic) around the NBA.

Lol, I thought he wanted to be a 4.  What happened to all of that talk?  

[Thomas]

11 minutes ago, Vol4ever said:

Lol, I thought he wanted to be a 4.  What happened to all of that talk?  

Maybe Al put a muzzle on Tito's mouth.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Vol4ever said:

Lol, I thought he wanted to be a 4.  What happened to all of that talk?  

Well, like @ATLien_ said, Alice is an amoeba.  His play demands change too?  I'm just messin with you, ATLien.  Don't yell at me.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Vol4ever said:

Lol, I thought he wanted to be a 4.  What happened to all of that talk?  

Sometimes people use excuses to make others think they have more talent than being displayed. Sorry Alice, it's the truth.

[Thomas]

For a guy that really avoids confrontation Al sure has created a plateful for himself this season.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Thomas said:

For a guy that really avoids confrontation Al sure has created a plateful for himself this season.

Looking forward to him getting confronted in the post when we play them.

[Sothron]

To me the truth is in the tape. Go watch Horford's before the pec tears. He fought for boards while also being in a position to switch out and do weak side help and get some blocks. He only started to disappear from the glass after those injuries. Last season was the worst I have ever seen him. There is no denying that he was thinking of his last big contract during last season.

[Thomas]

Usually players perform their best for that last big contract or any contract year. Al did the opposite and he still got a crazy fat one. Go figure.