Why do we continue to start Titanic Howard?

[Sothron]

1 hour ago, rd79 said:

For me it looks like Dwight is the one who wants to get his at the expense of winning. That's at least what I think when I seem him repeatedly refusing Dennis' pick requests an head into the post instead where he turns the ball over or doesn't score unless he is in dunk range...

Yeah, let's ignore Dwight putting up 14 and 14 for the two times a game he doesn't want to set a screen for someone.

[Sothron]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

Dwight could play more fundamentally sound for sure.  He's not above blame.  But he isn't turning the ball over anymore than he has the rest of his career and he's rebounding like crazy.     His per36 total rebounds and offensive rebounds are by far the highest in his career.   So it's not like he isn't working for the points he gets.   

Exactly. Dwight is putting up 14 and 14 on great numbers with limited minutes and people want to blame him. I don't know what is more sad: blaming Dwight being exactly the player the team knew he was before they signed him or one guy crying every day because an ex Hawk left the team and is not coming back.

[Watchman]

15 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Moose doesn't stink. He is just a backup but he does a lot for a backup. I have no quarrels with him. He is not starting. Splitter was good when he was healthy, problem is, he's never healthy.

So, who did you have in mind to start if Howard didn't?  I guess I left off Humphries.  He is a better option than Muscala and Splitter for sure.

BTW, Muscala, after an atypical good start, has resumed his customary stinking, so yes, he does stink.  4 rpg in 22 mpg for a 6-11 guy is pathetic.  Even more pathetic than Horford.

 

[Sothron]

56 minutes ago, Watchman said:

So, who did you have in mind to start if Howard didn't?  I guess I left off Humphries.  He is a better option than Muscala and Splitter for sure.

BTW, Muscala, after an atypical good start, has resumed his customary stinking, so yes, he does stink.  4 rpg in 22 mpg for a 6-11 guy is pathetic.  Even more pathetic than Horford.

 

Don't forget the game he started where he scored as many points as you or I did.

[Guest]

Dennis and Dwight can both play better, give more to gekp each other etc.

Part of the problem is how teams are now defending the PnR action and we've found no counter for it because no one else can hit a bucket, no help from the wings to alleviate the pressue. Here it from Kyle and Dwight:

Kyle Korver wrote:Some things we have to get better with, our pick and roll actions, Dennis and Dwight are still new to each other in a lot of ways and they’re still figuring it out. We have to do whatever we can to help them, give them better spacing, but I think it’s a lot of parts of the offense that’s a problem, not just the pick and roll.

 

Dwight Howard wrote:Teams are sending three or four bodies at me as I’m rolling to the basket to make sure I don’t get any easy baskets. They are forcing our guards to make plays, so it’s just a little adjustment that we are going to fix.

[Sothron]

That's just it: we are getting nothing from our perimeter players. They won't attack the basket, they can't hit shots, heck Korver literally can't even get off his man to put up a shot. We need a wing player that can attack the basket to start with Dennis and Dwight. I don't know why Baze is not doing this but he should be.

[hawkman]

4 minutes ago, Sothron said:

That's just it: we are getting nothing from our perimeter players. They won't attack the basket, they can't hit shots, heck Korver literally can't even get off his man to put up a shot. We need a wing player that can attack the basket to start with Dennis and Dwight. I don't know why Baze is not doing this but he should be.

Baze can't dribble. When he does drive, he's out of control and either throws the ball at the basket or turns the ball over trying to make a last second pass.

[rd79]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

Yeah, let's ignore Dwight putting up 14 and 14 for the two times a game he doesn't want to set a screen for someone.

I'd bet that's exact the same he is telling his team mates and Bud... And that may screw (or may already have) our team chemistry.

By the way, even Horf would put up personal best offensive rebounds the way they shoot the ball atm...

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Sothron said:

 I don't know why Baze is not doing this but he should be.

Because he can't and shouldn't. It'll be a turnover or an ugly ass shot which he thinks he gets fouled on then can't get his head in the game.

Teams are switching on Kyle on defense, so he can run 3 miles to try and get open, his guy gets picked but calls out and his teammate rotates right in Kyle's mug, he can't dribble so he's easy to trap with the ball, then it's a turnover.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, rd79 said:

By the way, even Horf would put up personal best offensive rebounds the way they shoot the ball atm...

No he wouldn't, our offense last year wasn't much better and Horford still could not/did not offensive rebound.

[Sothron]

46 minutes ago, rd79 said:

I'd bet that's exact the same he is telling his team mates and Bud... And that may screw (or may already have) our team chemistry.

By the way, even Horf would put up personal best offensive rebounds the way they shoot the ball atm...

Dwight can't be both a low post player and our crash the glass offensive rebounder while also setting picks and screens on every possession at the three point line. I mean, let's be real here, he simply can't do that all the time. No player in the league could do that.

I agree he needs to set more screens (and good screens, for someone built like a tank he should be setting killer screens) but let's don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Watchman]

44 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

No he wouldn't, our offense last year wasn't much better and Horford still could not/did not offensive rebound.

I found his rebounding to be quite offensive.

[Sothron]

49 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Because he can't and shouldn't. It'll be a turnover or an ugly ass shot which he thinks he gets fouled on then can't get his head in the game.

Teams are switching on Kyle on defense, so he can run 3 miles to try and get open, his guy gets picked but calls out and his teammate rotates right in Kyle's mug, he can't dribble so he's easy to trap with the ball, then it's a turnover.

He needs to be. He is too athletic to not attack the basket. He can't just be a stand behind the three point line guy because he doesn't shoot them well enough to justify that. Plus it is a waste of his ability.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Sothron said:

He needs to be. He is too athletic to not attack the basket. He can't just be a stand behind the three point line guy because he doesn't shoot them well enough to justify that. Plus it is a waste of his ability.

All the athleticism in the world won't help his handles and vision when he forrays into the paint, he's also kinda h-awkward when he drives. Give him an open lane sure, in traffic - its been disastrous.

Bazes best shot is the step in 15 footer in rythym and a corner 3.

[Watchman]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

All the athleticism in the world won't help his handles and vision when he forrays into the paint, he's also kinda h-awkward when he drives. Give him an open lane sure, in traffic - its been disastrous.

To be fair, that is a pretty good description of Dennis too.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Watchman said:

To be fair, that is a pretty good description of Dennis too.

Not even close. Nothing wrong with Dennis' ability to handle the ball. It's his decision making that needs sharpening.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Sothron said:

He needs to be. He is too athletic to not attack the basket. He can't just be a stand behind the three point line guy because he doesn't shoot them well enough to justify that. Plus it is a waste of his ability.

Are you talking about Skip BazeLess?  Dude's not athletic (relatively speaking).  Like Bird said, he's a step-in midrange/corner-3 shooter/wide-open driver at best.  The reason he awkwardly misses so many layups is because he lacks top-end athleticism.  He's spastic.

[Watchman]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Not even close. Nothing wrong with Dennis' ability to handle the ball. It's his decision making that needs sharpening.

Yeah, mostly I was referring the drives when he gets up in the air and there's no one to pass too, or he bricks a layup off the backboard.  He can handle the ball, his body just gets ahead of his brain.  (Way ahead of his brain.)

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Yeah, mostly I was referring the drives when he gets up in the air and there's no one to pass too, or he bricks a layup off the backboard.  He can handle the ball, his body just gets ahead of his brain.  (Way ahead of his brain.)

Like i said decision making, we had another PG who loved the jump pass than went no where.

8 minutes ago, kg01 said:

  He's spastic.

That's the word.

Moose is skittish, Baze is spastic.

[Lurker]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Dennis and Dwight can both play better, give more to gekp each other etc.

Part of the problem is how teams are now defending the PnR action and we've found no counter for it because no one else can hit a bucket, no help from the wings to alleviate the pressue. Here it from Kyle and Dwight:

Kyle Korver wrote:Some things we have to get better with, our pick and roll actions, Dennis and Dwight are still new to each other in a lot of ways and they’re still figuring it out. We have to do whatever we can to help them, give them better spacing, but I think it’s a lot of parts of the offense that’s a problem, not just the pick and roll.

 

Dwight Howard wrote:Teams are sending three or four bodies at me as I’m rolling to the basket to make sure I don’t get any easy baskets. They are forcing our guards to make plays, so it’s just a little adjustment that we are going to fix.

And it's going to continue to be this way as long as the starting wings continue to show absolutely nothing. Teams are not afraid of collapsing because Howard won't pass out of the PNR, but even when there has been passes out (more with Millsap), keeping the paint packed up limits both starting wings unless Kyle has a (now random) great shooting night.

The team has been better with the other wings in because they don't need rhythm shots out of the PNR as much. Hardaway Jr plays off of screens from big men but he doesn't need his man to roll to the basket every time to be successful. Sefolosha is more limited offensively but his steals and rebounds (including offensive rebounds) can help generate offense. Prince hasn't had as much experience but I bet even with limited experience he could be like that.