As bad as we played, this is what probably lost the game

[Peoriabird]

8 minutes ago, marco102 said:

So Bud should have played Hardaway more by your logic? You know cause he grew so much during the season and all.

Nooooo.  Hardaway was having a bad game...others were having better games namely Moose, Ilyasova, Dunleavy and Bazemore...The guys having the good games should play more than the guys having bad games...This isn't that complicated.  Plus match ups matter....play your players when the match up favors your guys not the other way around.

[Peoriabird]

5 minutes ago, Bankingitbig said:

I would hardly say Morris was "destroying" Millsap. He was only 8-19 from the field and 2-6 from the three. And Millsap was doing a decent job of drawing fouls against him (and should have had more). That said, Millsap definitely didn't play up to his par and needs to do better on the boards.

I think it would be a horrible, amateur and kneejerk decision to bench my best player and allstar in Game 1 of a series so that my backup can get more minutes. History tells us that Millsap is a MUCH better defender than Ilyasova, so why would I trust Ilyasova to be better at defending Morris. We need Millsap to play well and like himself to win this series. Not going to win it by taking minutes from Millsap and giving them to Ilyasova.

You illustrated my point for me.  Even though Morris shot a poor percentage overall which is largely due to someone else guarding him.  He shot a very high percentage while Millsap was guarding him which means Bud was asleep at the wheel.  His percentage would have been even worse if Bud had limited Sap's minutes facing Morris.

[NBASupes]

23 hours ago, Lurker said:

Here's some tweets from the other side on PNR coverage:

 

@Diesel

Edited April 18, 2017 by NBASupes

[Bankingitbig]

15 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

You illustrated my point for me.  Even though Morris shot a poor percentage overall which is largely due to someone else guarding him.  He shot a very high percentage while Millsap was guarding him which means Bud was asleep at the wheel.  His percentage would have been even worse if Bud had limited Sap's minutes facing Morris.

What.... How does me showing you that Morris shot inefficiently prove your point? I didn't show the splits of who was guarding Morris. Your logic is off the charts. You just incorrectly assumed that all of Morris' misses were when someone else other than Millsap was guarding him... Lol that is hilarious. Let me actually take the time to do the analysis so you don't have to go throwing around false information.

Morris with Millsap ON COURT (and most likely defending Morris) had 21 points with 8-18 from the field and 2-6 from three along with 5 REBs, 2 ASTs, 1 STL, 2 TOs and 4 PFs. I would hardly call that "destroying"... Millsap's minutes were literally matched with Morris. But Morris did play 5 more minutes without Millsap on the court and went 0-1 with 2 REBs and 4 BLKs. So no... Morris' bad shooting percentage was still a result of Millsap guarding him.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Bankingitbig

[NBASupes]

14 hours ago, Lurker said:

Word on the street was this might not have been his choice.

Where did you hear this at?

[Peoriabird]

9 minutes ago, Bankingitbig said:

What.... How does me showing you that Morris shot inefficiently prove your point? I didn't show the splits of who was guarding Morris. Your logic is off the charts. You just incorrectly assumed that all of Morris' misses were when someone else other than Millsap was guarding him... Lol that is hilarious. Let me actually take the time to do the analysis so you don't have to go throwing around false information.

Morris with Millsap ON COURT (and most likely defending Morris) had 21 points with 8-18 from the field and 2-6 from three along with 5 REBs, 2 ASTs, 1 STL, 2 TOs and 4 PFs. I would hardly call that "destroying"... Millsap's minutes were literally matched with Morris. But Morris did play 5 more minutes without Millsap on the court and went 0-1 with 2 REBs and 4 BLKs. So no... Morris' bad shooting percentage was still a result of Millsap guarding him.

Millsap was not guarding the whole time he was in the game sorry...If you watched the game, When Millsap was guarding him, Millsap was ineffective.

[Lurker]

14 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Where did you hear this at?

It might just be speculation but it's a lot of two and two being put together of "why would Bud want a center like Howard with his system?"

Word around the block is it might have been more Grant Hill's efforts than anyone.

[Lurker]

Giving it some thought, if there actually does happen to be a starting lineup change this time, it's going to likely be Howard being put on the bench and Ilyasova starting, which is going to be an absolute PR NIGHTMARE in Atlanta media.

There are more issues than the half court defense but with me comparing some of Wall's strengths to Westbrook's in my head, it might make sense to at least try to do what the Hawks did against Westbrook after the first 3 quarters against him. Which was go small (Howard did not play one minute of the last 5 quarters in the 2 game OKC series) and switch everything.

Westbrook dropped 40+ in the second game but it was effective as he was baited into more of one on one scoring.

It might not work but might end up being worth a try. I'm not just talking about the defensive end, I'm talking about what was done on the offensive end, which with what I read on social media, Millsap was trying for the first half.

Even if you don't go to the OKC gameplan on defense, Howard either has to fight for more offensive rebounds, or he has to have his minutes limited for the rest of the series.

[Bankingitbig]

28 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Millsap was not guarding the whole time he was in the game sorry...If you watched the game, When Millsap was guarding him, Millsap was ineffective.

Funny I did watch the game.......... I don't recall Howard guarding Morris instead of Gortat. Do you? I don't recall Prince guarding Morris instead of Porter.... Do you? So the majority of minutes Morris was being guarded by Millsap. I mean Millsap's minutes were literally matched with Morris. I don't recall seeing Millsap guarding Gortat or Smith when Howard, Ilyasova or Muscala were paired with him and even if he did it would have been for a short period. But sure keep on with your amatuer armchair coaching while avoiding the stats. Here is game flow since you don't believe the On/Off court stats.
http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20170416&game=ATLWAS

Edited April 18, 2017 by Bankingitbig

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, Bankingitbig said:

Funny I did watch the game.......... I don't recall Howard guarding Morris instead of Gortat. Do you? I don't recall Prince guarding Morris instead of Porter.... Do you? So the majority of minutes Morris was being guarded by Millsap. I mean Millsap's minutes were literally matched with Morris. I don't recall seeing Millsap guarding Gortat or Smith when Howard, Ilyasova or Muscala were paired with him and even if he did it would have been for a short period. But sure keep on with your amatuer armchair coaching while avoiding the stats. Here is game flow since you don't believe the On/Off court stats.
http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20170416&game=ATLWAS

Actually Howard did guard Morris a few times but Millsap and Howard weren't in the game together 100% of the time.

[Lurker]

Let me look at the highlights to be the breaker here in a few moments with this argument.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 minute ago, Bankingitbig said:

What.... How does me showing you that Morris shot inefficiently prove your point? I didn't show the splits of who was guarding Morris. Your logic is off the charts. You just incorrectly assumed that all of Morris' misses were when someone else other than Millsap was guarding him... Lol that is hilarious. Let me actually take the time to do the analysis so you don't have to go throwing around false information.

Morris with Millsap ON COURT (and most likely defending Morris) had 21 points with 8-18 from the field and 2-6 from three along with 5 REBs, 2 ASTs, 1 STL, 2 TOs and 4 PFs. If that is your definition of "destroying"... Millsap's minutes were literally matched with Morris. But Morris did play 5 more minutes without Millsap on the court and went 0-1 with 2 REBs and 4 BLKs. So no... Morris' bad shooting percentage was still as a result of Millsap guarding him.

We have the tools at our disposal to see exactly if this is true or not.

 

1ST QUARTER

- 3 point make over Hardaway Jr ( Millsap lost his shoe )

- Missed 3, with Millsap running out at him

- Missed 18 ft jumper with Millsap on him

- Dunk on a fastbreak ( in which Millsap lost his shoe AGAIN, and was putting it back on as Morris was streaking down the other end )

 

2ND QUARTER

- Missed 11 ft turnaround post up jumper over Ilyasova

- Midrange step back made jumper, with Calderon and Dwight in the area. ( Millsap is 10 feet away, shading toward Jason Smith )

- Airballed a 16 ft jumper with Millsap closing out on him hard

- Missed a tip shot off of an offensive rebound ( Millsap fails to box him out )

 

3RD QUARTER

- 3 point make off of a broken play ( Dwight is the closest to him, and closes hard out on him, didn't matter )

- 11 ft made jumper in the paint over Millsap

- Missed 9 ft jumper ( Millsap closed out hard on Beal, who passed to an open Morris. Dwight was in the area when Morris shot the ball )

- Made a driving floater in the paint over Millsap ( poor defensive effort by Sap here )

- Missed a 13 foot jumper while going to the basket. ( Millsap had switched on Beal. Morris drove past Dennis, but was met in the lane by Dwight, who contested the shot. Wiz would get the ball, because they called a push off on Millsap on the rebound. )

- Bad turnover by Dennis leads to a fastbreak, in which Morris is rewarded by Wall with a dunk over Hardaway

- A beautiful alley-oop by Wall leads to a Morris dunk right on Millsap, who was caught napping on the play

- Misses a 3 pointer ( Millsap sinks into the lane to prevent a Wall drive, then closes out hard on Morris to contest the 3 )

 

4TH QUARTER

- Morris misses another 3 ( Ersan with the late closeout )

- Morris misses his 3rd straight 3. ( Millsap leaves Morris to keep Oubre from getting an open corner 3. Oubre tosses it back to Morris.  Taurean Prince closes out hard on Morris, forcing a pump fake. Prince still contest the shot with a 2nd jump.  But no one blocks out Beal, who gets the score off the offensive rebound )

- Morris misses an open 9 ft jumper ( Moose leaves Gortat and closes out late on Morris. That led to Gortat getting the offensive rebound, but came down on Prince's knee and went to the ground

 

In all, it looks like in a direct matchup of Morris vs Sap, Markeith was 3 - 7 FG for 6 points.   The problem is that those 3 makes and 6 points came in the critical 3rd quarter . . over Millsap.  And it was Markeith's baskets that broke that game open.  We could've survived if it were just Wall getting his points.  But Wall was getting his, plus creating for others like Morris.  Wall had 15 points in the quarter, while Morris had 11.

 

Verdict:  You BOTH are right.  Morris didn't destroy Millsap throughout the course of the game . .  but he did destroy him in the most crucial point in the game.

 

 

[Lurker]

I just looked. I see a lot of both Howard and Millsap looking old in those highlights.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

56 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

@Diesel

But Wall shot 3 - 9 FG on midrange jumpers.  So his assertion about giving Wall the midrange jumper is flat out wrong.

Beal is a different story.  He shoots a whopping 51% on midrange jumpers.  He's a guy you MUST close out on, or make sure you fight through the screen as hard as you can.  But even with Beal, you'd rather give him a ton of midrange jumpers, than to let him get hot from 3.

Edited April 18, 2017 by TheNorthCydeRises

[Lurker]

Wall isn't as bad as he has been before on mid range jumpers. It and Gortat lobs are more desirable than the other options but someone in the media said you have to respect him in the mid range now and the Hawks need to trash their defensive gameplan completely.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

We have the tools at our disposal to see exactly if this is true or not.

 

1ST QUARTER

- 3 point make over Hardaway Jr ( Millsap lost his shoe )

- Missed 3, with Millsap running out at him

- Missed 18 ft jumper with Millsap on him

- Dunk on a fastbreak ( in which Millsap lost his shoe AGAIN, and was putting it back on as Morris was streaking down the other end )

 

2ND QUARTER

- Missed 11 ft turnaround post up jumper over Ilyasova

- Midrange step back made jumper, with Calderon and Dwight in the area. ( Millsap is 10 feet away, shading toward Jason Smith )

- Airballed a 16 ft jumper with Millsap closing out on him hard

- Missed a tip shot off of an offensive rebound ( Millsap fails to box him out )

 

3RD QUARTER

- 3 point make off of a broken play ( Dwight is the closest to him, and closes hard out on him, didn't matter )

- 11 ft made jumper in the paint over Millsap

- Missed 9 ft jumper ( Millsap closed out hard on Beal, who passed to an open Morris. Dwight was in the area when Morris shot the ball )

- Made a driving floater in the paint over Millsap ( poor defensive effort by Sap here )

- Missed a 13 foot jumper while going to the basket. ( Millsap had switched on Beal. Morris drove past Dennis, but was met in the lane by Dwight, who contested the shot. Wiz would get the ball, because they called a push off on Millsap on the rebound. )

- Bad turnover by Dennis leads to a fastbreak, in which Morris is rewarded by Wall with a dunk over Hardaway

- A beautiful alley-oop by Wall leads to a Morris dunk right on Millsap, who was caught napping on the play

- Misses a 3 pointer ( Millsap sinks into the lane to prevent a Wall drive, then closes out hard on Morris to contest the 3 )

 

4TH QUARTER

- Morris misses another 3 ( Ersan with the late closeout )

- Morris misses his 3rd straight 3. ( Millsap leaves Morris to keep Oubre from getting an open corner 3. Oubre tosses it back to Morris.  Taurean Prince closes out hard on Morris, forcing a pump fake. Prince still contest the shot with a 2nd jump.  But no one blocks out Beal, who gets the score off the offensive rebound )

- Morris misses an open 9 ft jumper ( Moose leaves Gortat and closes out late on Morris. That led to Gortat getting the offensive rebound, but came down on Prince's knee and went to the ground

 

In all, it looks like in a direct matchup of Morris vs Sap, Markeith was 3 - 7 FG for 6 points.   The problem is that those 3 makes and 6 points came in the critical 3rd quarter . . over Millsap.  And it was Markeith's baskets that broke that game open.  We could've survived if it were just Wall getting his points.  But Wall was getting his, plus creating for others like Morris.  Wall had 15 points in the quarter, while Morris had 11.

 

Verdict:  You BOTH are right.  Morris didn't destroy Millsap throughout the course of the game . .  but he did destroy him in the most crucial point in the game.

 

 

Finally, whew.