No true center can play in small ball lineups

[JTB]

I'm not trying to defend Howard but if you look around in the NBA playoffs all teams run small in the 4th quarter! Bud pointed it out and it's a fact.

ALL TRUE CENTERS ARE BEING TAKEN OUT OF THE LINEUPS WHEN TEAMS RUN SMALL.....

Did you see the bulls series when they started playing Gerald Green at Pf for big minutes and basically benched Amir Johnson (who's not a true center but a slower pf) ....bulls got circles ran around them with Lopez on the floor similar to the Hawks not being able to get back in transition with Howard on the floor when beal and wall pushed the ball up court every chance they got.

wizards exploited us cause had they had to take more half court offensive shots I don't believe they'd been as efficient. They knew gortat getting early fouls in the first drew by Howard only benefited them. Running small ball is just the way to go in the new NBA era.

WE STILL NEED HOWARD....

we were supposed to have millsap, horford, howard. To be able to switch from big lineups and small lineups. That scenario would have worked perfectly. There's no need to believe we don't need Howard...he did improve our rebounding struggles and defended the rim well enough when he was able to get back. If we need to generate offense simply taking Howard out and running horford/millsap lineup would have worked.

I GET WE PAYED HOWARD ALOT OF MONEY BUT....

Until we are able to trade him atleast  we have a big man that can match up with other traditional bigs and don't have to worry about that. We now need to find our quick non traditional center aka small lineup again. 

HOWARD WILL ONLY WORK WITH EFFICIENCY ON OFFENSE AND SHOOTERS AROUND HIM....

this isn't anything new! We all knew this coming into the season. No shooters equal an even worse Howard on the floor. I still don't believe Howard is this terrible but by no means can you run offense through him or even try. However if we had another true scorer that could drop 30 on any given night to pair with Dennis and millsap a lot of the flaws Howard has would be hidden. 

HOWARD ISNT PERFECT WE ALL KNOW HIS FLAWS BUT HE CAN STILL BE VERY USEFUL SO HERES MY HOPES FOR THE OFF SEASON......

My fix is to get either Blake Griffin or Melo here simple as that but I prefer Blake.....trade away baze for melo plus whatever else in that scenario or at all means trading Baze to free up that cap is big priority, resign THJ and Sap, draft Bam. We need a clutter of big men to match what's going on in the NBA. Bigs rotation is extremely important especially when you already have your pg of the future Locked down. Before moving on to the starting lineup Howard will and should be coming off the bench until needed.

Starting lineup w/ Griffin:

pg- Dennis 

sg- THJ

sf- Prince 

pf-Sap 

C-Blake Griffin 

We can afford a defensive backtrack to generate more offense at this point  (I get Blake isn't a great defender) but Small ball is in however again you still need your traditional center.

When big lineups are needed we start Howard or Bam. Now the reason I said to draft Bam is to replace Howard since he's an athletic younger version of Howard and starter material in the near future  or if we happen to trade Howard. We won't be able to trade Howard due to reputation so easily  but investing more big money in the front court is basically my fix for the team. Perhaps eventually we will get a trade offer for Howard over next season  and we then can roll with Griffin, Sap, Bam as our main rotation bigs along with moose who should be cheap.

THIS IS A DREAM SCENARIO BY THE WAY I HAVE NOT DONE ANY NUMBERS but I would think getting rid of Baze would help this become a true option.

[Lurker]

Holy long post but Bud waited WAY too late to do what he should have done to start game 6. Forget protecting Prince from something he's uncomfortable with, even if Dwight played well (and admittedly, he played as well as he could in the first quarter), the Hawks weren't going to win that game with him starting.

He waited way too late to pull the trigger on Millsap/Prince as C/PF in game 5. That should have been the fourth quarter lineup after you "give up on Howard playing". It should have been the starting lineup yesterday.

Starting the series with Howard starting is fine, but once you face a really desperate situation, he needed to go from the lineup, period, no questions asked at all. But doing so causes a PR nightmare in Atlanta media. Heck, what was actually DONE, is likely causing a PR nightmare in the media.

The drop PNR coverage was fine to begin with but it's mind boggling that Bud never tried what he did against Westbrook/OKC. It really was his only realistic choice and it only MIGHT have appeared late in game 6. Trying to trap is not going to work with as good of a three point shooting team here. Switching everything might.

And I'm sorry, but Koonin is feeding you stuff that is false. The Hawks had a trade ready to go to Phoenix with Millsap if Horford resigned. It's PR reasons that he said "the plan was for all 3 players to be here", because he didn't want fans to be mad at the organization.

[JTB]

28 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Holy long post but Bud waited WAY too late to do what he should have done to start game 6. Forget protecting Prince from something he's uncomfortable with, even if Dwight played well (and admittedly, he played as well as he could in the first quarter), the Hawks weren't going to win that game with him starting.

He waited way too late to pull the trigger on Millsap/Prince as C/PF in game 5. That should have been the fourth quarter lineup after you "give up on Howard playing". It should have been the starting lineup yesterday.

Starting the series with Howard starting is fine, but once you face a really desperate situation, he needed to go from the lineup, period, no questions asked at all. But doing so causes a PR nightmare in Atlanta media. Heck, what was actually DONE, is likely causing a PR nightmare in the media.

The drop PNR coverage was fine to begin with but it's mind boggling that Bud never tried what he did against Westbrook/OKC. It really was his only realistic choice and it only MIGHT have appeared late in game 6. Trying to trap is not going to work with as good of a three point shooting team here. Switching everything might.

And I'm sorry, but Koonin is feeding you stuff that is false. The Hawks had a trade ready to go to Phoenix with Millsap if Horford resigned. It's PR reasons that he said "the plan was for all 3 players to be here", because he didn't want fans to be mad at the organization.

Maybe so but I'm just going off what he said and to me it was sincere quote a real thing. Having horford instead of millsap is no better but having all 3 is not only smart but the perfect situation. You have a response for every lineup thrown at you. 

Now the best thing to do is get melo or Blake griffin to pair with Sap. 

Melo can play pf at this stage of his career and actually hold a big advantage and may even be better on defense guarding a slower position.

or get Blake to play center with Sap at Pf or vice versa . 

Whatever the case is, bud need another big man that can actually impact the game. There's no need to go out a get a pg, sg, or sf...those positions are locked down. The only debate may be at sg position with THJ but I say he need more time actually starting , other than that bembry has potential to be a good player.

 

P.S.

sorry for the long post. I tend to give out all my thoughts at once.

Edited April 29, 2017 by JTB

[Lurker]

14 minutes ago, JTB said:

Maybe so but I'm just going off what he said and to me it was sincere quote a real thing. Having horford instead of millsap is no better but having all 3 is not only smart but the perfect situation. You have a response for every lineup thrown at you. 

Can't take what is PR as ground truth.

[JTB]

36 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Can't take what is PR as ground truth.

I get that but assuming everything they say is a lie shouldn't be your first thoughts of whatever comes out of their mouth either.

[Watchman]

3 hours ago, Lurker said:

Holy long post but Bud waited WAY too late to do what he should have done to start game 6. Forget protecting Prince from something he's uncomfortable with, even if Dwight played well (and admittedly, he played as well as he could in the first quarter), the Hawks weren't going to win that game with him starting.

He waited way too late to pull the trigger on Millsap/Prince as C/PF in game 5. That should have been the fourth quarter lineup after you "give up on Howard playing". It should have been the starting lineup yesterday.

Starting the series with Howard starting is fine, but once you face a really desperate situation, he needed to go from the lineup, period, no questions asked at all. But doing so causes a PR nightmare in Atlanta media. Heck, what was actually DONE, is likely causing a PR nightmare in the media.

The drop PNR coverage was fine to begin with but it's mind boggling that Bud never tried what he did against Westbrook/OKC. It really was his only realistic choice and it only MIGHT have appeared late in game 6. Trying to trap is not going to work with as good of a three point shooting team here. Switching everything might.

And I'm sorry, but Koonin is feeding you stuff that is false. The Hawks had a trade ready to go to Phoenix with Millsap if Horford resigned. It's PR reasons that he said "the plan was for all 3 players to be here", because he didn't want fans to be mad at the organization.

What, are you psychic hotline now?  How do you know he's lying, and why would you assume that the rumor was true?

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Watchman said:

What, are you psychic hotline now?  How do you know he's lying, and why would you assume that the rumor was true?

I reached that conclusion based on Millsap's reaction and behavior weeks after the rumor was live.  He was still really pissed they tried to trade him.  He is a team player by nature so that makes me think Koonin was spinning that one.

[Thomas]

When Sap was donating school supplies to the Paideia School this past summer he was asked about the trade rumors by some journalist derailing that day's efforts and a comment about it being a business was uttered by Sap so he seemed to be aware that something was up. Not sure where but that article was posted on here by someone. Woj even made some comments about the trade stuff and he is generally trusted. Phoenix as a destination was brought up by others as well including Chris Haynes. 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2649721-paul-millsap-trade-rumors-latest-news-speculation-surrounding-hawks-pf 

[Flight]

I honestly think Dwight's first year wasn't bad. He single handedily changed our rebounding dynamic lol. I think chemistry wise it went about as I expected. Transitioning from a front court that's been the same for so long definitely had its growing pains.

 

Going forward we definitely need to up the talent of the team as a whole. Even if it means taking a risk in the draft (Harry Giles, Anyone?) we should get some youth with potential.  Dwight needs more shooters around him and Dennis needs time to expand his game even more. We definitely need to be able to play small ball with a lot more effective of a lineup, but we need some retooling on some role players for that. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Flight said:

I honestly think Dwight's first year wasn't bad. He single handedily changed our rebounding dynamic lol. I think chemistry wise it went about as I expected. Transitioning from a front court that's been the same for so long definitely had its growing pains.

 

Going forward we definitely need to up the talent of the team as a whole. Even if it means taking a risk in the draft (Harry Giles, Anyone?) we should get some youth with potential.  Dwight needs more shooters around him and Dennis needs time to expand his game even more. We definitely need to be able to play small ball with a lot more effective of a lineup, but we need some retooling on some role players for that. 

Dwight did everything that was expected of him this season.   He had a very good regular season, in my opinion.  He had a poor playoffs, even though he did average 8 ppg - 11 rebs and shot 50% FG.  With the rest of the big men on the team playing like hot garbage, we needed at least "regular season Dwight" to show up.   While I wouldn't be against giving Ilyasova another run next season, Moose HAS to go.  Too weak to defend strong 4s or regular sized 5s.  And pretty much useless offensively because the only thing he can do is take spot up jumpers ( which he can't make consistently ).

But the only people that came to play in this series was Millsap and Schröder, who both played like top 15 level NBA players this series.  They both were fantastic.  Prince showed flashes of what the future for him could be like, so I'm excited about him.  He should be groomed to take on a big role in the offense next season, regardless of what we do.  Good contribution for Calderon as well, who was crucial in Game 3.

 

[Bankingitbig]

14 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Dwight did everything that was expected of him this season.   He had a very good regular season, in my opinion.  He had a poor playoffs, even though he did average 8 ppg - 11 rebs and shot 50% FG.  With the rest of the big men on the team playing like hot garbage, we needed at least "regular season Dwight" to show up.   While I wouldn't be against giving Ilyasova another run next season, Moose HAS to go.  Too weak to defend strong 4s or regular sized 5s.  And pretty much useless offensively because the only thing he can do is take spot up jumpers ( which he can't make consistently ).

 

I think Moose will be back. How can you call a center useless on offense who shot 42% on 110 threes this season? He had a bad playoffs, but who didn't on our team besides Dennis and Paul? I think Moose's defense is fine. He moves his feet well and understands when to switch/rotate to defend. It's not like he will be playing Zach Randolph in the post every game. Muscala's game is a good fit for this modern NBA.