We are screwed no matter what happens!!

[Wurider05]

If we sign Millsap in all likelihood we remain a treadmill team. We let him go it increases our reputation of not wanting to pay our players (per Stu Jackson). Millsap's next contract is going to be worth more that what he has made in his entire career up until this point. Think about that.  How do we always end up in the same situation?  We overpaid Bazemore because Carroll left (we likely dodged a bullet there because Carroll maybe more overpaid that Bazemore--Carroll's knees are shot) so do we make the same mistake over again with Millsap because we lost Al. We sign Millsap and we are f*cked. 25+15+30 (at least)  and that is 70 million tied up in our front court where 2 of the players allegedly don't make our team better.   Our two greatest strengths are player development and that fact that our young players are playing well. Bringing back Millsap is a gamble that the young guys will improve enough to make us a threat.  We come to regret not trading him when we had the chance earlier this year.

Question--Can we do a sign and trade?  If he walks what does our money look like?

 

Either way a hard decision is going to have to get made and I hope they are all on the same page!!!

[Alex]

The team needs to rebuild.  Once the front office realizes this it will make the decision of letting Millsap walk easier.  Millsap is a fine player, but he's going to command a ton and a team like the Hawks can't be strapped with his salary when they need to be getting younger.  

[skimaskway23]

I'm torn. Millsap would be great to keep around the youngsters but it would mean we are stuck unless we somehow dump bazemore and Howard. 

Then on the other hand we ain't beating bron for the next 2 years so why not just full blown tank? Just keep tim dennis bembry and prince. 

Somebody got a decision to make.

[BigDog90]

21 hours ago, Wurider05 said:

If we sign Millsap in all likelihood we remain a treadmill team. We let him go it increases our reputation of not wanting to pay our players (per Stu Jackson). Millsap's next contract is going to be worth more that what he has made in his entire career up until this point. Think about that.  How do we always end up in the same situation?  We overpaid Bazemore because Carroll left (we likely dodged a bullet there because Carroll maybe more overpaid that Bazemore--Carroll's knees are shot) so do we make the same mistake over again with Millsap because we lost Al. We sign Millsap and we are f*cked. 25+15+30 (at least)  and that is 70 million tied up in our front court where 2 of the players allegedly don't make our team better.   Our two greatest strengths are player development and that fact that our young players are playing well. Bringing back Millsap is a gamble that the young guys will improve enough to make us a threat.  We come to regret not trading him when we had the chance earlier this year.

Question--Can we do a sign and trade?  If he walks what does our money look like?

 

Either way a hard decision is going to have to get made and I hope they are all on the same page!!!

Hawks could do a sign and trade but teams rarely do it anymore. Millsap could sign with his new team without them giving up assets.

I'm not exactly sure about the money since there are so many cap holds with the other FAs. Not sure if they'll get resigned. I know Millsap got a 30 mil cap hold.

[Thomas]

This from ex Squawker Hawksfanatic on the Peachtree Hoops site. Looks like a contradiction between those paragraphs, so which is it? His opt in is at 21.5 million I believe.

Paul Millsap could be traded if he agrees to pick up his Player Option, but there would have to be precarious circumstances for this to make sense. Let’s not talk about it. I’ve already talked about Paul Millsap’s contract situation previously, so go there if you want to learn more about it. Paul has until June 29th to pick up his Player Option, but there is hardly a chance he does. And that will complete the contract he signed in the 2015 off-season.

By way of example, if Atlanta were to sign and trade away Paul Millsap at a starting salary of $35 million, then Atlanta would use $20,072,033 as his outgoing salary since half of $35 million is only $17.5 million. Atlanta could bring back up to $25,190,042 in salaries. But a team receiving Paul would need to send out at least $27,920,000 in salary in order to receive a $35 million player...which is too much for Atlanta to be allowed to take back. This makes a direct two-team trade complicated, although not impossible. A third team with cap space could allow the team receiving Paul to salary dump their required $27.92 million to make the math work. Another option would be to have Atlanta include more salary to raise the amount of money that Atlanta could take back. And another alternative would be for Paul to have a lower starting salary.

[Wurider05]

37 minutes ago, Thomas said:

This from ex Squawker Hawksfanatic on the Peachtree Hoops site. So which is it? His opt in is at 21.5 million I believe.

Paul Millsap could be traded if he agrees to pick up his Player Option, but there would have to be precarious circumstances for this to make sense. Let’s not talk about it. I’ve already talked about Paul Millsap’s contract situation previously, so go there if you want to learn more about it. Paul has until June 29th to pick up his Player Option, but there is hardly a chance he does. And that will complete the contract he signed in the 2015 off-season.

By way of example, if Atlanta were to sign and trade away Paul Millsap at a starting salary of $35 million, then Atlanta would use $20,072,033 as his outgoing salary since half of $35 million is only $17.5 million. Atlanta could bring back up to $25,190,042 in salaries. But a team receiving Paul would need to send out at least $27,920,000 in salary in order to receive a $35 million player...which is too much for Atlanta to be allowed to take back. This makes a direct two-team trade complicated, although not impossible. A third team with cap space could allow the team receiving Paul to salary dump their required $27.92 million to make the math work. Another option would be to have Atlanta include more salary to raise the amount of money that Atlanta could take back. And another alternative would be for Paul to have a lower starting salary.

So basically we are screwed!!!

[Ropadope]

Let Sap walk, draft Bam Adebayo to eventually replace D8, Ersan at the stretch 4, desperately hope that a 3 and D shooting guard can be coaxed into coming to ATL. That's about the best we can do for the upcoming season in my mind. 

[NBASupes]

If Atlanta can't land Paul George, Melo, Butler or another star, it's pretty much over. 

[ATLSmith]

The Hawks have to sign Sap.  They needed to trade Sap before last trade deadline if they were going to rebuild.

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, ATLSmith said:

The Hawks have to sign Sap.  They needed to trade Sap before last trade deadline if they were going to rebuild.

Trade him for what? Terrance Ross and a late 1st rounder. That wasn't value as we already have too much of that type of value in our arsenal. We just need to be honest, it's time to rebuild. 

[Thomas]

At the deadline Phoenix with their first rounder and either Knight or young prospects was in the mix or at least approached. 

[Guest]

On Thursday, May 04, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Wurider05 said:

Question--Can we do a sign and trade?  If he walks what does our money look like.

Yes, we can do a SnT but that would only happen if Millsap really wants to go to a 'winning' team and they don't have full capspace to sign him outright. But then that would likely mean taking back bad contracts to make salaries work. Teams that have the capspace to sign him outright have bo incentive to do a SnT.

If Millsap walks call a team like the Jazz for Favors (they are looking to resign Hayward and Hill this year, they may not have interest in resigning Favors next year) or a team like Detroit that are/will be over the cap for Tobias Harris. They can be absorbed with capspace from Millsap leaving. 

[NBASupes]

10 minutes ago, Thomas said:

At the deadline Phoenix with their first rounder and either Knight or young prospects was in the mix or at least approached. 

That wasn't available at the deadline. That was during the draft. 

[Thomas]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

That wasn't available at the deadline. That was during the draft. 

Your right, my bad. A timeline thing for me I guess.

[ATLSmith]

On 5/5/2017 at 3:21 PM, NBASupes said:

Trade him for what? Terrance Ross and a late 1st rounder. That wasn't value as we already have too much of that type of value in our arsenal. We just need to be honest, it's time to rebuild. 

And a first rounder would help the Hawks rebuild.

[NBASupes]

39 minutes ago, ATLSmith said:

And a first rounder would help the Hawks rebuild.

Not another late 1st. We already have two of them. That 2nd we have is a late 1st basically. If late 1st develop into role players, you got good value. More times than not, it's guys like Jared Cunningham and Jenkins.  

Edited May 7, 2017 by NBASupes

[ATLSmith]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Not another late 1st. We already have two of them. That 2nd we have is a late 1st basically. If late 1st develop into role players, you got good value. More times than not, it's guys like Jared Cunningham and Jenkins.  

I'll take whatever picks I can get.

[NBASupes]

24 minutes ago, ATLSmith said:

I'll take whatever picks I can get.

You will, Atlanta and the owner WON'T. 

 

Playoff money>>>>>>> A late 1st and Terrance Ross. 

[thecampster]

On 5/4/2017 at 9:03 AM, Wurider05 said:

If we sign Millsap in all likelihood we remain a treadmill team. We let him go it increases our reputation of not wanting to pay our players (per Stu Jackson). Millsap's next contract is going to be worth more that what he has made in his entire career up until this point. Think about that.  How do we always end up in the same situation?  We overpaid Bazemore because Carroll left (we likely dodged a bullet there because Carroll maybe more overpaid that Bazemore--Carroll's knees are shot) so do we make the same mistake over again with Millsap because we lost Al. We sign Millsap and we are f*cked. 25+15+30 (at least)  and that is 70 million tied up in our front court where 2 of the players allegedly don't make our team better.   Our two greatest strengths are player development and that fact that our young players are playing well. Bringing back Millsap is a gamble that the young guys will improve enough to make us a threat.  We come to regret not trading him when we had the chance earlier this year.

Question--Can we do a sign and trade?  If he walks what does our money look like?

 

Either way a hard decision is going to have to get made and I hope they are all on the same page!!!

Yes we can sign and trade him which is Sap's best option right now. There are no top level teams with real cap room this off-season. Boston has room, but that keeps them from signing people in the next off-season when 4 of their rotation players are all do raises. Boston signing Sap = Luxury tax the following year.  GS has room but has to sign their own FA including Curry.

There are no top 12 teams with the cap room to sign Paul.  A sign and trade would allow a select group of teams to shed salary enough to acquire Paul to compete (say Chicago, OKC, Memphis, etc).

The problem with the "sign and trade" option is that most teams would like picks included in the bounty for facilitating the sign n trade. The Hawks, already have 10 picks in 3 years. We are close to having too many draft assets. So any "sign and trade" with the Hawks would really need to be players for player and that would require another team sending us a shooter/backup point. We can't package anything with the signed player so it can't be used to drop other salary.

Just to jump back on this who is getting Millsap.  The cap next year is a projected 101 million (or 103 depending on who you read). Millsap's max contract for another team next year is $35,700,000.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/  So if you want to know who can afford Sap at the max next year, take a look at the teams under (101-35.7=) 65.3 million or if you are like me and believe Sap will get around $25 million per teams under 75.3 million. The click each team and look at which of their F/A came off the books this year and need to be signed. Re-add that number and check again for how much they can get.  Then look at the remaining teams at their F/A situation the following situation and see if signing Sap would impeded the signing of their own F/A next year (see Isaiah Thomas in Boston for example) and you'll see the list is almost non-existent.

Sap is not getting 35 next year. Sap is getting $25+ but only from a small, select group of teams.

[ATLSmith]

You will, Atlanta and the owner WON'T. 

 

Playoff money>>>>>>> A late 1st and Terrance Ross. 

 

You've lost me.

 

All I'm saying is the Hawks need to sign Sap because he's the best player on this team and if they decide to rebuild he has value as a trade asset as well.