The NBA Needs to Put Their Foot Down on Player Collusion

[AHF]

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/paul-george-reportedly-already-recruiting-185442023.html

 

You've got to stop players from openly recruiting players under contract with another team.  In this case, it is even one step worse since George is not even recruiting them to the team that pays his salary.  This is a tough to monitor issue but if you let it go, management will collude with players to make this happen indirectly when they are barred from tampering ala what Riley did with Wade.  It is bad for the game and fan confidence in the product.

[Admin]

The league should fine the players big time for this type of public discussion. We all know it can't be stopped behind closed doors but if they're openly recruiting and especially to other teams that's just not right. I don't think Silver has it in him to go after the leagues stars though. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

So is the problem that players are doing it out in the open . . or that they're just doing it, regardless if it's out in the open or behind closed doors?

Just want to clarify what the issue is.

[AHF]

10 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

So is the problem that players are doing it out in the open . . or that they're just doing it, regardless if it's out in the open or behind closed doors?

Just want to clarify what the issue is.

It is a problem that they are doing it at all.  When someone employs you, you owe it to them not to undermine them.  That is like convincing clients to make plans to abandon your employer for an employer you plan to jump to in the future while you are still cashing paychecks.  Once your contract ends, then have at it but until then refrain from working for a competitor who isn't paying you.

The fact that they are doing it in the open creates a separate problem that undermines confidence in the league.  If fans can't trust players to actually commit to the team while under contract (or at least not to work for another team) then they sure can't trust they will really give their best on the floor either.  That becomes exacerbated in the era of super teams where the league already has a problem convincing fans of most teams that they have a legit chance to compete with the best teams in the league.  Now your best player already has one foot out the door and is actively helping a rival team?

So it is both.  Add in the fact that management involvement becomes inevitable (Magic sending word through agents or other intermediaries that PG should start recruiting for the Lakers) and this needs to be stopped.

[HawkItus]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

It is a problem that they are doing it at all.  When someone employs you, you owe it to them not to undermine them.  That is like convincing clients to make plans to abandon your employer for an employer you plan to jump to in the future while you are still cashing paychecks.  Once your contract ends, then have at it but until then refrain from working for a competitor who isn't paying you.

The fact that they are doing it in the open creates a separate problem that undermines confidence in the league.  If fans can't trust players to actually commit to the team while under contract (or at least not to work for another team) then they sure can't trust they will really give their best on the floor either.  That becomes exacerbated in the era of super teams where the league already has a problem convincing fans of most teams that they have a legit chance to compete with the best teams in the league.  Now your best player already has one foot out the door and is actively helping a rival team?

So it is both.  Add in the fact that management involvement becomes inevitable (Magic sending word through agents or other intermediaries that PG should start recruiting for the Lakers) and this needs to be stopped.

I really don't see how you police this.  Conduct detrimental clause?  But,, even then this is a reporter saying this not Paul himself.  Let's say he did speak to Klay on his cellphone that he pays for.  What can the team or NBA do?  And all Klay would have to do is deny the allegations and its a none story.   And being part of a union these players have protected communication from the  employer.  So unless the NBA is looking for an expensive legal fight they would be best to grin and take it.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

So what is your take on the Chris Paul situation?   Same thing?

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19758509/la-clippers-trade-chris-paul-houston-rockets

Edited June 28, 2017 by TheNorthCydeRises

[AHF]

Difficulty policing it and the bad attention from drawing more attention to it is the problem.  They need to get the players on board with it as an NBA culture to avoid confrontations.  This never used to be an issue so it is possible. But I think they need to stomp out the cases where people are doing it openly.  The message needs to at least to be smart and quiet about it so you don't undermine the image of the league.

16 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

So what is your take on the Chris Paul situation?   Same thing?

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19758509/la-clippers-trade-chris-paul-houston-rockets

I don't see anything  about Paul recruiting players to join the Rockets in there.  I don't even see anything in there about Paul talking with Harden or others.

I see a lot about Paul souring on the Clippers and Doc Rivers in particular which led to him telling the Clippers he was going to leave.

Quote

Sources told Eaves that Paul had become unhappy with Doc Rivers over the preferential treatment of his son over other guys on the roster. Sources told Eaves that Doc Rivers would yell at guys for certain things during games and practices, but would not get on Austin Rivers in the same manner for similar transgressions.

In addition, sources told Eaves that Paul lost both trust and faith in his coach after Doc Rivers ultimately declined a trade last season that would have sent Carmelo Anthony and Sasha Vujacic to the Clippers in exchange for Jamal Crawford, Paul Pierce and Austin Rivers.

I'd need to hear more before I considered them similar situations.

[Sothron]

I agree that this is horrible for the NBA but I have no idea how you stop it. Other leagues don't have this issue. But the NBA? Oh hell yes. These guys get together and decide whose going where and they don't care what team they are currently on. Actual GMs and coaches would be fined or banned from the NBA for doing this but the players get away with it.

The only way this stops frankly is if the NBA goes down hard with fans not watching or paying to see games and the next TV/endorsement deals shrink substantially. When fans vote with their wallets not to support 25 out of 30 teams in a given year just to be someone else's farm system then the players might realize that the talent needs to be spread out and not clumped together.

[AHF]

I still think ultimate remedy is removal of the max salary but that doesn't appear likely to happen soon.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I actually love what some of these players are doing.  They're taking the guesswork out of what will happen in free agency, and letting their current teams decide what to do with them in that final year.

Like I've said in previous topics, there are some BAD GM's across the NBA.   They dish out bad contracts.  They don't know how to properly construct teams.  And they make bad trades ( cough ) Travis ( cough ).  

These players have actually done more to shape the landscape of the NBA, than most of these GMs.  It's unfortunate that Atlanta isn't part of the free agent / star player destination frenzy, but it's our own dang fault.  Everything will play itself out though, and the league as a whole will have to adjust.  

The players are taking their destinies into their own hands and bucking the perceived notion that money alone will drive all of their decision making.  The irony is that these players simply want to be in a better situation in order to win.  But the fans of the teams being left out in the cold, and some in the media, have a problem with how they're going about it.

This is actually good for the Hawks as well.  If we know that "said player" has no interest in playing with us, there's no need to even try to court him.  Maybe Schröder can become our "player GM" and start recruiting some guys to play with him in Atlanta in future seasons.

[AHF]

I think the superfriends teamups are terrible for the NBA.  I think that shaping of the league is terrible.

I agree that early notice to teams of a free agent's intent to leave is good for everyone.

I don't like players under contract spending their energy trying to improve a competitor. It smacks of disloyalty and an unprofessional lack of investment.  I can be ok with an upcoming free agent telling me that he will leave but will give it his all when he is under contract.  It is a step too far for me when he tells me he is trying to build a competitor before he leaves.  That is my fan perspective.

I think this situation is much worse for the Hawks than it is good if we ever want to see them win big.  The silver lining you point out is there but to me it is outweighed by the negatives and it isn't close.  These super teams are likely to keep the Hawks from winning a playoff game past the first or second round for the indefinite future.  Would have loved to have faced an organically grown Cleveland team instead of the jury rigged bunch of Lebron + 3 #1 overall picks (and others).

I totally agree these players are prioritizing winning and the out of basketball benefits (potentially greater ad revenue, etc.) over a couple of million of salary.  They prefer the easier path to winning.  I'd like to see Durant turn down 25M more rather than some single digit amount if he is going to do it.  That is why I want to see the elimination of max salaries and see if he will really take 26M like last year when as a truly unrestricted free agent he would probably get >50M.

[HawkItus]

16 hours ago, AHF said:

I still think ultimate remedy is removal of the max salary but that doesn't appear likely to happen soon.

I agree.  Also, since we are talking about fantasy, I would like to see contract lengths dropped at a certain threshold.   Maybe tie it to the salary cap?  If your salary is over 10% of the teams cap you can only sign for two years.

[Buzzard]

I like what is going on in free agency with more super teams being formed. It gives us hope that one day we could have a player like Harden, Curry, Bron who can attract good free agents.

All teams have the same amount of cap to use. Bad teams have picks and cap. It is balanced but one cannot sit on their ass and be competitive. The Timberwolves could be one of the future super teams out West; while Philadelphia may be a future super team in the East.

Just the fact that we can talk about Minnesota and Philadelphia as having a future is proof to me that the system works. But bad management, as in any league, will hurt your chances and drag a rebuild out for more years.

Players want to win and CP3s decision is proof positive that HOF players will take a pay cut to go to a winner. Furthermore, he left the LA market to go to the Houston market. That is a clear message to the whole league, build something decent and players will come. Sit on your ass and your players will leave.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Buzzard

[Buzzard]

I do not see anything the league can do. This would be akin to telling friends they cannot talk about work and they cannot say "hey man it would be cool if you could get a job with me."

We, everyday people, do this all the time and I am pretty sure saying we can't would be a freedom of speech violation.

[AHF]

10 hours ago, Buzzard said:

I do not see anything the league can do. This would be akin to telling friends they cannot talk about work and they cannot say "hey man it would be cool if you could get a job with me."

We, everyday people, do this all the time and I am pretty sure saying we can't would be a freedom of speech violation.

There is no freedom of speech issue unless it is the government that is restricting speech.  Private citizens can agree amongst themselves to limit speech any number of ways.

The two most common ways of doing this are a nonsolicitation clause or a duty of loyalty clause.  In either case, recruiting for a competitor would violate the clause and give the offended party (the league or the team paying the player or both) whatever rights they choose to spell out.

I may be best friends with Joe but if I sign a nonsolicit then I am in breach if I solicit him to come work with me.  This culture is poisonous to the league, imo.