The Disingenuous One Speaks

[KB21]

http://atlantahawks.blog.ajc.com/2017/09/22/hawks-gm-travis-schlenk-q-and-a-we-are-going-to-be-competitive/

We are going to be competitive and play hard every night and are looking for growth can be translated into we are going to suck, but we want say we are going to be competitive so this doesn't look like an intentional tank job.  

I'd have a higher opinion of this guy if he would just quit bullshitting around and state the obvious.  This team is going to suck, and it will suck for several years before this gets better.  Just come out and say it.  Travis is the one that made the decision to bottom the team out, but he is trying to avoid the negative connotation of tanking by being completely disingenuous about what his short term goals are.  

 

[High5]

Have you ever heard a GM (or anyone in a similar position outside of sports) speak before? 

Quote

The one thing I would say about this group is these are scrappy guys. These are competitive guys. These are prideful guys. Now, we are going to be young and, historically, teams who are young take it on the chin a little bit. Like I said, what we are looking for is that growth not only from individual players but as a collective unit from the start of the season to the end of the season. I think we are going to show up every single night and we are going to play hard, and play together and play the right way and we are going to be able to live with the results.

We're going to be "scrappy" and "take it on the chin" and "play hard" and "live with the results." It doesn't get much more honest than that. You're really reaching for things to get upset about. 

[KB21]

1 hour ago, High5 said:

Have you ever heard a GM (or anyone in a similar position outside of sports) speak before? 

We're going to be "scrappy" and "take it on the chin" and "play hard" and "live with the results." It doesn't get much more honest than that. You're really reaching for things to get upset about. 

He's tanking the roster.  Just be honest about it and say it instead of hiding behind descriptors such as competitiveness and scrappy.  Like I said, it was his decision to follow a foolish strategy.  He might as well own that foolish strategy.

[Buzzard]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

He's tanking the roster.  Just be honest about it and say it instead of hiding behind descriptors such as competitiveness and scrappy.  Like I said, it was his decision to follow a foolish strategy.  He might as well own that foolish strategy.

1st off you cannot admit to tanking in any professional sport. What you are asking him to do could have ramifications that may very well include the loss of draft picks. 

2nd: Quit bitching about him NOT saying something STUPID that could cost us draft picks and instead be happy he is not.

We are rebuilding with youth, picks, and cap space flexibility. That is the company line. Given our drop from 1st in the East with the loss of Horford to 5th in the East last season, I am inclined to agree with the strategy.

 

Edited September 23, 2017 by Buzzard

[KB21]

I prefer a strategy where I try to correct problems to improve the team and not one where I all but guarantee that the team will be losing over a long period of time.

[Buzzard]

22 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I prefer a strategy where I try to correct problems to improve the team and not one where I all but guarantee that the team will be losing over a long period of time.

I liked Ferry's strategy in the end but part of that strategy was all but dumping J-Smoove and Childress by letting them both walk. This time around, once we loss Horford and went from ECF Finals to 1st round exit, tying up a lot of money in 32 year old Millsap seemed like a waste. At least we got a pick out of it.

We were looking at tying up 53.5 million dollars for two players ( Howard 23.5 and Millsap 30. 0 resigned ) on a team that suffered a 1st round exit. Something drastic needed to be done. Period, end of story.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Buzzard

[cam1218]

You can be competitive and still lose games. I expect our team to play hard and have some close games that don't result in wins. 

You aren't telling players and the fan base we expect to lose a lot of games. Hearing that type of message from the top of your organization just doesn't happen. They expect the players to play hard, compete, grow, and we will see what comes out of it. It's not like he is spewing out stuff about championships.

[KB21]

57 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I liked Ferry's strategy in the end but part of that strategy was all but dumping J-Smoove and Childress by letting them both walk. This time around, once we loss Horford and went from ECF Finals to 1st round exit, tying up a lot of money in 32 year old Millsap seemed like a waste. At least we got a pick out of it.

We were looking at tying up 53.5 million dollars for two players ( Howard 23.5 and Millsap 30. 0 resigned ) on a team that suffered a 1st round exit. Something drastic needed to be done. Period, end of story.

So the best response is to bottom the roster out, guaranteeing that you will spend the next 5-6 years building to get to the point where you were already at?

Paul Millsap signed a 2 year deal with a team option.  That contract was in no way a prohibitive deal to sign.  It would have had zero effect on the team's long term financial flexibility.  Who exactly are they going to use this newfound flexibility over the next two years to get that will help the team and give them what Paul would have given the team over the next two years?  We showed what we can do with that financial flexibility by spending around $13 million on what will amount to be the 28th pick in the draft.  More importantly, having Paul Millsap over the next two years would have made the team better over that time span.

That's not the route Travis chose to take though.  He chose to take the route that has proven to fail more than it succeeds by tanking the roster to the bottom of the league as far as winning potential in hopes of landing that unicorn prospect in the draft that will change the direction of the franchise by himself.   As a result, he has ensured that his next 5-6 years will be spent trying to dig out of the hole he dug himself into.  

[cam1218]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

So the best response is to bottom the roster out, guaranteeing that you will spend the next 5-6 years building to get to the point where you were already at?

You can't guarantee that it is going to take that long, you just think it will. Each rebuild is unique. You have different situations at GM/Coach, ownership, current players, etc. 

We won 43 games last year, I doubt it will take 5-6 years to get back to that. I wasn't a huge fan of the rebuild, but last year was full of blowouts and bad basketball. After going through that I'm okay with taking a step back and seeing what happens.

[Buzzard]

25 minutes ago, KB21 said:

So the best response is to bottom the roster out, guaranteeing that you will spend the next 5-6 years building to get to the point where you were already at?

Paul Millsap signed a 2 year deal with a team option.  That contract was in no way a prohibitive deal to sign.  It would have had zero effect on the team's long term financial flexibility.  Who exactly are they going to use this newfound flexibility over the next two years to get that will help the team and give them what Paul would have given the team over the next two years?  We showed what we can do with that financial flexibility by spending around $13 million on what will amount to be the 28th pick in the draft.  More importantly, having Paul Millsap over the next two years would have made the team better over that time span.

That's not the route Travis chose to take though.  He chose to take the route that has proven to fail more than it succeeds by tanking the roster to the bottom of the league as far as winning potential in hopes of landing that unicorn prospect in the draft that will change the direction of the franchise by himself.   As a result, he has ensured that his next 5-6 years will be spent trying to dig out of the hole he dug himself into.  

We are talking sports KB and there is no guarantee. You are talking like you know it all for the next 5 - 6 years. You are basically saying that you know:

1-None of our future draft picks over the next two seasons will be any good.

2-None of our future free agent signings over the next two seasons will be any good.

3- None of our current signed players will be any good.

Since the 1st two items of the three I listed have not even happened yet, I don't believe you know anything much less that you can guarantee everything you posted.

These doom and gloom and sky is falling type post got tiresome about three months ago.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Buzzard

[Watchman]

1 hour ago, cam1218 said:

You can't guarantee that it is going to take that long, you just think it will. Each rebuild is unique. You have different situations at GM/Coach, ownership, current players, etc. 

We won 43 games last year, I doubt it will take 5-6 years to get back to that. I wasn't a huge fan of the rebuild, but last year was full of blowouts and bad basketball. After going through that I'm okay with taking a step back and seeing what happens.

And you can't guarantee that it won't take 10 years either. 

[Watchman]

1 hour ago, Buzzard said:

We are talking sports KB and there is no guarantee. You are talking like you know it all for the next 5 - 6 years. You are basically saying that you know:

1-None of our future draft picks over the next two seasons will be any good.

2-None of our future free agent signings over the next two seasons will be any good.

3- None of our current signed players will be any good.

Since the 1st two items of the three I listed have not even happened yet, I don't believe you know anything much less that you can guarantee everything you posted.

These doom and gloom and sky is falling type post got tiresome about three months ago.

With respect to your discussion points:

1.  We don't have much of a track record with lottery picks. 

2.  Free agents aren't interested in coming here, or we would not have been in the shape we're in.

3.  Being "any good" is not an indicator of championship potential.  

Tell me what makes you believe that we won't get the next Wiggins rather than the next Lebron?

 

[Buzzard]

21 minutes ago, Watchman said:

With respect to your discussion points:

1.  We don't have much of a track record with lottery picks. 

2.  Free agents aren't interested in coming here, or we would not have been in the shape we're in.

3.  Being "any good" is not an indicator of championship potential.  

Tell me what makes you believe that we won't get the next Wiggins rather than the next Lebron?

 

1- No one has much of a track record with lottery picks. Maybe we get lucky the first two drafts, maybe it takes drafts in years three and four. My point is there is no guarantee and that knife cuts both ways.

2- Howard and Millsap both came here. I think that proves under the right circumstances we can sign highly visible and talented free agents. 

3-We were not championship caliber last season. We needed to change to have any chance at all.

There is no guarantee we get the next Lebron. I can no more guarantee you a championship caliber team in 3 years than KB can guarantee we will still be in the lottery in years 4,5, and 6. 

Edited September 23, 2017 by Buzzard

[cam1218]

1 hour ago, Watchman said:

And you can't guarantee that it won't take 10 years either. 

Or two years either.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Watchman said:

And you can't guarantee that it won't take 10 years either. 

And no one can guarantee we wouldn't be in the same position resigning Sap.  The advanced metrics say Dwight hadn't done much for his teams' bottomline records in a few years and if Sap blew his knee out we'd be right where we are today just without the assets we have today.

GS went into the lottery

Cleveland went into the lottery

the Spurs haven't gotten close to a ring since their #1 overall pick retired 

the Heat went into the lottery

etc

This is not a franchise ender that we aren't sitting Collins on the bench for the next few years behind Sap and we aren't losing in the first round the next couple seasons.

[Buzzard]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

And no one can guarantee we wouldn't be in the same position resigning Sap.  The advanced metrics say Dwight hadn't done much for his teams' bottomline records in a few years and if Sap blew his knee out we'd be right where we are today just without the assets we have today.

GS went into the lottery

Cleveland went into the lottery

the Spurs haven't gotten close to a ring since their #1 overall pick retired 

the Heat went into the lottery

etc

This is not a franchise ender that we aren't sitting Collins on the bench for the next few years behind Sap and we aren't losing in the first round the next couple seasons.

Agree 100%. Dwight was past his peak and in his thirties, SAP was at his peak and in his thirties, and the best we could do was a 1st round exit. It was and is time to get younger.

[AHF]

I will say I didn't like the original messaging suggesting we'd be right there fighting for a playoff spot late into the season.  I'm glad he dropped that.  I do agree with kb that he is overselling the competitiveness but no team is not going to do some variation on his themes in our spot.  The league won't abide another 76er process.

[DrReality]

They pay him a lot of money to spin it that way.  

[KB21]

Anthony Bennett, Victor Oladipo, Otto Porter, Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, Joel Embiid, Karl Anthony Towns, D'Angelo Russell, Jahlil Okafor, Ben Simmons, Brandon Ingram, and Jaylen Brown.

Those are the players who have been drafted with top 3 picks since 2013, not counting this year's class.  Is this a group of players that generates excitement for you that you feel if Atlanta gets one, they will have their star player?  That's 12 players over a 4 year period, where only one of them is a legitimate star caliber player in the NBA.

This is part of the reason the rebuild will take longer than many of you want it to take.  The college game is not producing quality NBA talent.  We are seeing young, underdeveloped players get taken high, and they aren't becoming what many feel their "potential" is.  

Now, some may try to say that I'm being too hard on these young players.  Well, you're telling me that the plan Travis Schlenk has in place to bottom the team out to the bottom of the NBA standings so they can get a high draft pick will allow this team to have a 2 year, short term rebuild.  So, that means that these 19 year old prospects should be able to come in and contribute to winning basketball within 2 years.

[TheFuzz]

50 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Anthony Bennett, Victor Oladipo, Otto Porter, Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, Joel Embiid, Karl Anthony Towns, D'Angelo Russell, Jahlil Okafor, Ben Simmons, Brandon Ingram, and Jaylen Brown.

Those are the players who have been drafted with top 3 picks since 2013, not counting this year's class.  Is this a group of players that generates excitement for you that you feel if Atlanta gets one, they will have their star player?  That's 12 players over a 4 year period, where only one of them is a legitimate star caliber player in the NBA.

This is part of the reason the rebuild will take longer than many of you want it to take.  The college game is not producing quality NBA talent.  We are seeing young, underdeveloped players get taken high, and they aren't becoming what many feel their "potential" is.  

Now, some may try to say that I'm being too hard on these young players.  Well, you're telling me that the plan Travis Schlenk has in place to bottom the team out to the bottom of the NBA standings so they can get a high draft pick will allow this team to have a 2 year, short term rebuild.  So, that means that these 19 year old prospects should be able to come in and contribute to winning basketball within 2 years.

Do you want Doncic or not, lol?