The Tank Thread

[davis171]

Just now, Diesel said:

Mark Jackson had them too.

Steph was hurt and younger. You have to have a superstar to win championships and none are coming to ATL in free agency.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, davis171 said:

Steph was hurt and younger. You have to have a superstar to win championships and none are coming to ATL in free agency.

Like I said earlier, you take it for granted that all you have to do is dip down into the lottery, draft a superstar player (which is few and far between since the one and done rule came into effect), and then you are back on your way up in short order.

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, davis171 said:

Steph was hurt and younger. You have to have a superstar to win championships and none are coming to ATL in free agency.

They'll be less likely now that we're tanking.   Ilyasova, who is not a superstar, doesn't want to be here.   How do you think other vet FAs feel about it. 

Secondly.  Not just a superstar but a vet. Superstar.   Young players don't win nothing.   So, you're hoping to get a superstar, then the question becomes... what will you do to keep him?... if you even get that right??  Hello Marvin. 

 

[davis171]

Just now, KB21 said:

Like I said earlier, you take it for granted that all you have to do is dip down into the lottery, draft a superstar player (which is few and far between since the one and done rule came into effect), and then you are back on your way up in short order.

Okay so you don't want championships and I do I gotcha!

[DBac]

9 minutes ago, KB21 said:

So tell me, how many teams have won a championship with a player they have drafted with the 1st overall pick?

Spurs, Cavs, Lakers, Rockets

[Diesel]

Just now, DBac said:

Spurs, Cavs, Lakers, Rockets

Cavs is actually a no.  Lebron left... the Lebron that brought a championship to the Land was a FA acquistion. 

Lakers is shaky.  You're talking about Magic.  But the Lakers are the epitome of bring in a vet. FA and win a championship.  Hello Kareem.   Hello Shaq.  Hello Wilt.  

 

[davis171]

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

They'll be less likely now that we're tanking.   Ilyasova, who is not a superstar, doesn't want to be here.   How do you think other vet FAs feel about it. 

Secondly.  Not just a superstar but a vet. Superstar.   Young players don't win nothing.   So, you're hoping to get a superstar, then the question becomes... what will you do to keep him?... if you even get that right??  Hello Marvin. 

 

locked up for at least 7 years I understand the risk but if you crush the pick you set your franchise up for championships and their is no other substantial example other than drafting early because 90% of stars come from the lottery.

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Cavs is actually a no.  Lebron left... the Lebron that brought a championship to the Land was a FA acquistion. 

Lakers is shaky.  You're talking about Magic.  But the Lakers are the epitome of bring in a vet. FA and win a championship.  Hello Kareem.   Hello Shaq.  Hello Wilt.  

 

Um we don't sign those guys ever so we just stay average I like it! Regardless first time around Lebron did more to cleveland than any player in ATL history

Edited February 26, 2018 by davis171

[davis171]

Name a vet superstar that could have lead us to a championship that has ever entertained coming to ATL only way is drafting one 

[Diesel]

Just now, davis171 said:

locked up for at least 7 years I understand the risk but if you crush the pick you set your franchise up for championships and their is no other substantial example other than drafting early because 90% of stars come from the lottery.

7 years... is that long enough?  How long has Greek Freak been in the league?  Do you think that Milwaukee is going to keep him?

Quote

Even though Milwaukee Bucks star Giannis Antetokounmpo is still three full seasons away from free agency, Philadelphia 76ers center Joel Embiid got an early start on the recruiting process. 

Antetokounmpo said during Wednesday's practice session that Embiid made a pitch to the Bucks' MVP candidate during All-Star Weekend in Los Angeles. 

"He told me I should trust the process and come play for Philly," Antetokounmpo said with a laugh, per Matt Velazquez of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. "That was my reaction—I just laughed.”

Embiid has not been shy about approaching the NBA's biggest stars in an effort to get them to join him in Philadelphia. 

We will be like Milwaukee.  A place that has that one star (after several years of sucking) then somebody comes along and says.. we're trying to win a championship over here... and he will leave.  

 

[davis171]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

7 years... is that long enough?  How long has Greek Freak been in the league?  Do you think that Milwaukee is going to keep him?

We will be like Milwaukee.  A place that has that one star (after several years of sucking) then somebody comes along and says.. we're trying to win a championship over here... and he will leave.  

 

So what sounds good to you what would you have done? who would you have signed with the little cap we had and no flexibility on contracts with ownership unwilling to go into the luxury tax?

Edited February 26, 2018 by davis171

[DBac]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Cavs is actually a no.  Lebron left... the Lebron that brought a championship to the Land was a FA acquistion. 

Lakers is shaky.  You're talking about Magic.  But the Lakers are the epitome of bring in a vet. FA and win a championship.  Hello Kareem.   Hello Shaq.  Hello Wilt.  

 

Kyrie was scoring 27 ppg in the finals and hit the game winner. It counts.

[CBAreject]

This thread is full of straw men, mostly due to KB.  Here are a couple.  

1) Prove to me that “tanking is the best strategy!!!”

-Tanking is clearly not the best way to build a contender, and nobody has argued that.  The problem is, it may be the only feasible option to the Hawks as their roster stood in 2017.  Citing examples of the Lakers signing hall of famers is useless because we will never be able to attract FA like the Lakers.  

2) You think you can dip down into the lottery and be back in contention in two years!

-I still haven’t seen where anybody said this, at least not any of the people KB keeps indignantly accusing.  Maybe someone did, but it surely isn’t a widespread view.  Tanking doesn’t work out for most teams that try it.   Neither does spending big dollars in free agency.  Most teams don’t become contenders no matter what they do, but nearly all contenders have drafted one of their best two players in the lottery and/or traded top-10 picks to acquire stars.  

 

Edited February 26, 2018 by CBAreject

[DBac]

5 minutes ago, CBAreject said:

This thread is full of straw men, mostly due to KB.  Here are a couple.  

1) Prove to me that “tanking is the best strategy!!!”

-Tanking is clearly not the best way to build a contender, and nobody has argued that.  The problem is, it may be the only feasible option to the Hawks as their roster stood in 2017.  Citing examples of the Lakers signing hall of famers is useless because we will never be able to attract FA like the Lakers.  

2) You think you can dip down into the lottery and be back in contention in two years!

-I still haven’t seen where anybody said this, at least not any of the people KB keeps indignantly accusing.  Maybe someone did, but it surely isn’t a widespread view.  Tanking doesn’t work out for most teams that try it.   Neither does spending big dollars in free agency.  Most teams don’t become contenders no matter what they do, but nearly all contenders have drafted one of their best two players in the lottery and/or traded top-10 picks to acquire stars.  

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/sam-hinkie-explains-sixers-tanking-plan-2015-2

Explains my viewpoint pretty well.

As well as: 

https://cleaningtheglass.com/cornered-market/

 

 

[deester11]

25 minutes ago, davis171 said:

So what sounds good to you what would you have done? who would you have signed with the little cap we had and no flexibility on contracts with ownership unwilling to go into the luxury tax?

There's never any good reply when that question is asked.  But I'm waiting...

[MaceCase]

1 hour ago, Watchman said:

More likely they leave after five years, by accepting the qualified minimum contract for a year, and then becoming a free agent.  

More likely?  Literally only 3 players have done this ever in Ben Gordon, Greg Monroe, and Nerlens Noel and it had next to zero to do with them being "tired of losing" and everything to do with their original team not offering them a max contract for their highly sought after services.

[Watchman]

2 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

More likely?  Literally only 3 players have done this ever in Ben Gordon, Greg Monroe, and Nerlens Noel and it had next to zero to do with them being "tired of losing" and everything to do with their original team not offering them a max contract for their highly sought after services.

I wonder how many have threatened it, leaving their GM with no alternative other than to accept a crappy trade to avoid losing the player for nothing?  I bet that has happened more than a few times.

[davis171]

1 minute ago, Watchman said:

I wonder how many have threatened it, leaving their GM with no alternative other than to accept a crappy trade to avoid losing the player for nothing?  I bet that has happened more than a few times.

So don't draft talented players we hearing you loud and clear!

[deester11]

1 minute ago, Watchman said:

I wonder how many have threatened it, leaving their GM with no alternative other than to accept a crappy trade to avoid losing the player for nothing?  I bet that has happened more than a few times.

Perhaps the hawks should have felt threatened a few times....

[Watchman]

14 minutes ago, deester11 said:

There's never any good reply when that question is asked.  But I'm waiting...

We'll never know because Slinky blew the whole thing up, getting nothing for Millsap, and making his awesome trade to acquire Plumlee.  Kind of hard to speculate when you can't control any of it.

[KB21]

38 minutes ago, CBAreject said:

This thread is full of straw men, mostly due to KB.  Here are a couple.  

1) Prove to me that “tanking is the best strategy!!!”

-Tanking is clearly not the best way to build a contender, and nobody has argued that.  The problem is, it may be the only feasible option to the Hawks as their roster stood in 2017.  Citing examples of the Lakers signing hall of famers is useless because we will never be able to attract FA like the Lakers.  

2) You think you can dip down into the lottery and be back in contention in two years!

-I still haven’t seen where anybody said this, at least not any of the people KB keeps indignantly accusing.  Maybe someone did, but it surely isn’t a widespread view.  Tanking doesn’t work out for most teams that try it.   Neither does spending big dollars in free agency.  Most teams don’t become contenders no matter what they do, but nearly all contenders have drafted one of their best two players in the lottery and/or traded top-10 picks to acquire stars.  

 

Tanking is never the only feasible option for a team.  Look at the Houston Rockets.  They did not tank.  They clearly did a middle build.  They won 34 games in a strike shortened season.  Within 2 seasons, they were at 54 wins.  Now, they are looking at a 60 plus win season.  They may not beat the Warriors in the Western Conference finals.  Does that mean they should bottom out and be shitty for several years just because they can't beat the warriors?

Edit:  Look through this thread.  There are several, I'd say the majority of the pro tankers that believe this team will be back in the playoffs within a 2-3 year window.  It's just not going to happen.

 

Edited February 26, 2018 by KB21