The Tank Thread

[DBac]

Bud sat Dennis for the 4th quarter of the Suns game. Unless Schlenk buzzed in, that was a pretty deliberate act.

[davis171]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Someone needs to go back and read what was said.

I said I wouldn't take Philly's team in general, over anyone, and it is because I am categorically and emphatically against tanking.  So, I don't really care if Joel Embiid goes to Wakanda and gets a vibranium skeleton and becomes the league's next uber star, I absolutely loathe the method the 76ers took, so I would never favor that team over any team.

Well your Atlanta hawks will be doing it and there is nothing you can do about it! I'm done trying to convince you live in your misery and negative attitude you are so against taking a step back to take 2 steps forward that there is no reasoning with you. 

Edited March 30, 2018 by davis171

[Peoriabird]

38 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Oh, yeah, because Travis Schlenk gave him such great damn options to play at center when John Collins, Dewayne Dedmon, and Mike Muscala were missing time.

Dude John Collins only missed 6 games...Dedmon 19!  How do you explain Plumlee starting when they were healthy???

[KB21]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

Dude John Collins only missed 6 games...Dedmon 19!  How do you explain Plumlee starting when they were healthy???

He started and played like 10 minutes a game over a stretch of time, but I wouldn't expect those who don't pay attention to pick up on that.  You think that starting a player means that coach feels said player is the best player.  Travis Schlenk simply gave Bud crap to work with.  It's one reason why Bud will not be the coach after this year.

[davis171]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Dude John Collins only missed 6 games...Dedmon 19!  How do you explain Plumlee starting when they were healthy???

Dude Bud is 100% in on it KB just won't admit it. He is the one that gave away Korver still a great shooter for a 1st round pick lmao Schlenk wasn't even here. KB has 0 proof he isn't in on it and there are articles saying he has been in on it the entire time.

Edited March 30, 2018 by davis171

[Peoriabird]

12 minutes ago, KB21 said:

He started and played like 10 minutes a game over a stretch of time, but I wouldn't expect those who don't pay attention to pick up on that.  You think that starting a player means that coach feels said player is the best player.  Travis Schlenk simply gave Bud crap to work with.  It's one reason why Bud will not be the coach after this year.

In December Plumlee averaged 19 minutes per game...January 16 minutes per game. February 15 minutes per game and in March 17 minutes per game

[KB21]

21 minutes ago, davis171 said:

Well your Atlanta hawks will be doing it and there is nothing you can do about it! I'm done trying to convince you live in your misery and negative attitude you are so against taking a step back to take 2 steps forward that there is no reasoning with you. 

Well, considering that Schlenk will be fired before this team is good again, I will just take my pleasure with tell you that I told you so and look forward to the new GM who will come in and actually try to put a competitive team on the court.

[davis171]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Well, considering that Schlenk will be fired before this team is good again, I will just take my pleasure with tell you that I told you so and look forward to the new GM who will come in and actually try to put a competitive team on the court.

STOP Ressler wanted the reset so he hired a GM that agreed. If that happens it will be similar to Hinkie being fired and the new GM rides the talent Hinkie brought in.

[Buzzard]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

This why this exercise is futile, because no matter what is said about how the team, if kept intact, was a playoff caliber team, those of you who are tank slurpers and think that tanking is the only way you can build a championship team will continue to say it isn't.  

If the Hawks bring the same team back from last year, in this conference where there are only 3 really good teams, the Hawks are a 4-5 seed team in the playoffs.  And on top of that, you would have seen more development and progression from Taurean Prince, better development of John Collins's game, and you may have also been able to salvage Dennis to an extent.

This is what you are missing KB and I think it is what AHF has been saying throughout this whole thread. You need a generational talent to compete for championships on a regular basis. It has gotten to the point in the modern era that you almost need two. You are living in lala land if you think last years capped out Hawks could attract and sign a free agent talent similar to those who are on this list.

We attracted Moses Malone in 1986 and the primary reason he came was because we had Wilkins. Once we get a generational talent; then maybe we can attract one. Until then, we need to keep losing and drafting.

This is your reality check.

A year-by-year list of the Kia NBA Most Valuable Player Award winners:

 YEAR           PLAYER                TEAM
2016-17     Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City Thunder (Voting Totals)
2015-16     Stephen Curry, Golden State Warriors (Voting Totals)
2014-15     Stephen Curry, Golden State Warriors
2013-14     Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City Thunder
2012-13     LeBron James, Miami Heat
2011-12     LeBron James, Miami Heat
2010-11     Derrick Rose, Chicago Bulls
2009-10     LeBron James, Cleveland Cavaliers
2008-09     LeBron James, Cleveland Cavaliers
2007-08     Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles Lakers
2006-07     Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas Mavericks
2005-06     Steve Nash, Phoenix Suns
2004-05     Steve Nash, Phoenix Suns
2003-04     Kevin Garnett, Minnesota Timberwolves
2002-03     Tim Duncan, San Antonio Spurs
2001-02     Tim Duncan, San Antonio Spurs
2000-01     Allen Iverson, Philadelphia 76ers
1999-00     Shaquille O'Neal, Los Angeles Lakers
1998-99     Karl Malone, Utah Jazz
1997-98     Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls
1996-97     Karl Malone, Utah Jazz
1995-96     Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls
1994-95     David Robinson, San Antonio Spurs
1993-94     Hakeem Olajuwon, Houston Rockets
1992-93     Charles Barkley, Phoenix Suns
1991-92     Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls
1990-91     Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls
1989-90     Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers
1988-89     Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers
1987-88     Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls
1986-87     Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers
1985-86     Larry Bird, Boston Celtics
1984-85     Larry Bird, Boston Celtics
1983-84     Larry Bird, Boston Celtics
1982-83     Moses Malone, Philadelphia 76ers
1981-82     Moses Malone, Houston Rockets
1980-81     Julius Erving, Philadelphia 76ers
1979-80     Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles Lakers
1978-79     Moses Malone, Houston Rockets
1977-78     Bill Walton, Portland Trail Blazers
1976-77     Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles Lakers
1975-76     Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles Lakers
1974-75     Bob McAdoo, Buffalo Braves
1973-74     Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee Bucks
1972-73     Dave Cowens, Boston Celtics
1971-72     Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee Bucks
1970-71     Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee Bucks

[Lurker]

Once again, the only tanking moves related to games in which you can place on Schlenk (outside of the roster) are healthy scratches.

You are tinfoil hatting to the absolute extreme and being absolutely absurd if you are going to blame sitting players that started the game for a half, hockey style lineups, and the like on Schlenk.

How are you supposed to know? Are you a fly on Bud or Schlenk's shoulder? Unless you are, then you are tinfoil hatting yourself.

I don't know if Bud publically stated he's in on it, but those moves that I have cutely said were Bud tossing games in the trash can in the past, they ABSOLUTELY have been going on this season along with the bad roster. You'd think if he was hating it, that he wouldn't be doing it, but it's absolutely been happening.

[KB21]

Yeah, because all great coaches just love to put themselves into situations where they will have losing records for the next 5 years.  Not just losing records, but sub 25 win seasons.

[KB21]

41 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

This is what you are missing KB and I think it is what AHF has been saying throughout this whole thread. You need a generational talent to compete for championships on a regular basis. It has gotten to the point in the modern era that you almost need two. You are living in lala land if you think last years capped out Hawks could attract and sign a free agent talent similar to those who are on this list.

We attracted Moses Malone in 1986 and the primary reason he came was because we had Wilkins. Once we get a generational talent; then maybe we can attract one. Until then, we need to keep losing and drafting.

This is your reality check.

A year-by-year list of the Kia NBA Most Valuable Player Award winners:

 YEAR           PLAYER                TEAM
2016-17     Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City Thunder (Voting Totals)
2015-16     Stephen Curry, Golden State Warriors (Voting Totals)
2014-15     Stephen Curry, Golden State Warriors
2013-14     Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City Thunder
2012-13     LeBron James, Miami Heat
2011-12     LeBron James, Miami Heat
2010-11     Derrick Rose, Chicago Bulls
2009-10     LeBron James, Cleveland Cavaliers
2008-09     LeBron James, Cleveland Cavaliers
2007-08     Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles Lakers
2006-07     Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas Mavericks
2005-06     Steve Nash, Phoenix Suns
2004-05     Steve Nash, Phoenix Suns
2003-04     Kevin Garnett, Minnesota Timberwolves
2002-03     Tim Duncan, San Antonio Spurs
2001-02     Tim Duncan, San Antonio Spurs
2000-01     Allen Iverson, Philadelphia 76ers
1999-00     Shaquille O'Neal, Los Angeles Lakers
1998-99     Karl Malone, Utah Jazz
1997-98     Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls
1996-97     Karl Malone, Utah Jazz
1995-96     Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls
1994-95     David Robinson, San Antonio Spurs
1993-94     Hakeem Olajuwon, Houston Rockets
1992-93     Charles Barkley, Phoenix Suns
1991-92     Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls
1990-91     Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls
1989-90     Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers
1988-89     Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers
1987-88     Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls
1986-87     Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers
1985-86     Larry Bird, Boston Celtics
1984-85     Larry Bird, Boston Celtics
1983-84     Larry Bird, Boston Celtics
1982-83     Moses Malone, Philadelphia 76ers
1981-82     Moses Malone, Houston Rockets
1980-81     Julius Erving, Philadelphia 76ers
1979-80     Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles Lakers
1978-79     Moses Malone, Houston Rockets
1977-78     Bill Walton, Portland Trail Blazers
1976-77     Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles Lakers
1975-76     Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles Lakers
1974-75     Bob McAdoo, Buffalo Braves
1973-74     Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee Bucks
1972-73     Dave Cowens, Boston Celtics
1971-72     Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee Bucks
1970-71     Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee Bucks

Notice that none of those MVPs have been drafted since 2010.

[Buzzard]

49 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Notice that none of those MVPs have been drafted since 2010.

That is right. It usually takes four or more years for a MVP type player to grow into being that player. I think AD, KAT, Embiid ( if he can stay healthy ) are well on their way. Nique never won the MVP but he was great enough to be a top five mention for many years.

Simple logic. The higher up you are drafting the better chance you have that a great player will be there. The further down you draft, your chances diminish. And here is more harsh logic: if you do not draft well as a lottery team, there is a 99.9% chance you will not make up for your mistakes in free agency.

The easiest path is draft well and then attract another MVP type player. It is almost the only path barring the Billup's led Pistons and the current Celtics ( who have still not won anything worth mentioning ).

Edited March 30, 2018 by Buzzard

[KB21]

18 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

That is right. It usually takes four or more years for a MVP type player to grow into being that player. I think AD, KAT, Embiid ( if he can stay healthy ) are well on their way. Nique never won the MVP but he was great enough to be a top five mention for many years.

Simple logic. The higher up you are drafting the better chance you have that a great player will be there. The further down you draft, your chances diminish. And here is more harsh logic: if you do not draft well as a lottery team, there is a 99.9% chance you will not make up for your mistakes in free agency.

The easiest path is draft well and then attract another MVP type player. It is almost the only path barring the Billup's led Pistons and the current Celtics ( who have still not won anything worth mentioning ).

Again, if that's the easiest path, then why do the teams that take this path rarely succeed?

[davis171]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Yeah, because all great coaches just love to put themselves into situations where they will have losing records for the next 5 years.  Not just losing records, but sub 25 win seasons.

Explain the Krover trade then that made the team worse.

Edited March 30, 2018 by davis171

[MaceCase]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Again, if that's the easiest path, then why do the teams that take this path rarely succeed?

Because you've chosen to create an arbitrary time frame for those teams to "succeed" while offering the assertion that a team can win ~40 games ad infinitum without any of the same stipulations for "success".

[Buzzard]

Just now, KB21 said:

Again, if that's the easiest path, then why do the teams that take this path rarely succeed?

You are wearing blinders. The only teams that have succeeded drafted at least one HOF type player. Wade, Curry, Dirk, Duncan, Kobe, Pierce, Durant, Harden, Westbrook, Irving,,,,,Do you think Bron goes back to Cleveland if Irving was a bust and they did not have a trade ready for Love?

We could always follow Houston's path and wait on a GM to draft a MVP type player ( Harden ); then hope he does not see his full potential and is therefore not willing to match all offers. Of course we would need to make sure we have the cap for that also ( Houston could have signed Harden outright ).

Presti is paying his big three now, Melo, George, and Westbrook. I bet he wishes like hell he was paying Harden, Durant, and Westbrook instead.

[MaceCase]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Yeah, because all great coaches just love to put themselves into situations where they will have losing records for the next 5 years.  Not just losing records, but sub 25 win seasons.

If Bud was so diametrically opposed to the strategy he could have resigned.

[Buzzard]

5 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

Because you've chosen to create an arbitrary time frame for those teams to "succeed" while offering the assertion that a team can win ~40 games ad infinitum without any of the same stipulations for "success".

That is it in a nutshell. KB does not like the lottery strategy but gives no examples on how holding a 40 win team together without one HOF player has ever paid off

[KB21]

11 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

You are wearing blinders. The only teams that have succeeded drafted at least one HOF type player. Wade, Curry, Dirk, Duncan, Kobe, Pierce, Durant, Harden, Westbrook, Irving,,,,,Do you think Bron goes back to Cleveland if Irving was a bust and they did not have a trade ready for Love?

We could always follow Houston's path and wait on a GM to draft a MVP type player ( Harden ); then hope he does not see his full potential and is therefore not willing to match all offers. Of course we would need to make sure we have the cap for that also ( Houston could have signed Harden outright ).

Presti is paying his big three now, Melo, George, and Westbrook. I bet he wishes like hell he was paying Harden, Durant, and Westbrook instead.

Yes, he would have gone back to Cleveland regardless of what they had done in the draft.  Hell, their drafts sucked, and he went back there.