The Tank Thread

[KB21]

5 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So do you truly think that if we were trying to win that we would have bought out Ilyasova and Belinelli?

What about declare Baze, Delaney and Dennis out for the season for minor injuries

Do you really think that Plumlee would have a role on a team trying to win...What about Magette, Morris and White?

You think Tyler Dorsey would be getting over 20 minutes per game if something wasn't up?  What about Taylor and Lee

Y'all are basically hopeless if you think for 1 minute that this team is trying to win games!!!!

Oh yeah, I forgot about cavanaugh

If the Hawks were trying to win, neither Belinelli nor Ilyasova would have been their “big” off season acquisitions.  

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

What administration does and what goes on on the court are two different things.   Our FO is tanking.  Our players on the court are not trying to tank.  Our FO has put our players on the court in a position where we lack the chemistry and skill to be a 35 win team as you have suggested.   Even after we get the draft pick.. that may be a good player or may be a miss, we still will be in "lottery terroritory" because He can only do so much and he has a lot to learn.  Moreovr, you have to consider that we just may move Dennis. 

That's your opinion!  But trust me...the tank was on!  I didn't believe at first myself and argued with AHF over this at mid season...Then it became very obvious at one point when we started winning too many games.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

If the Hawks were trying to win, neither Belinelli nor Ilyasova would have been their “big” off season acquisitions.  

Not win a title fool but to be competitive and they were.  But when they blew thru the west, changes had to be made to right the ship thus Belinelli and Ilyasova were 1st benched for no reason and then bought out!

[KB21]

Do you even understand what NBA level talent is?

[Peoriabird]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Do you even understand what NBA level talent is?

Who is that question for?

[KB21]

To even think this team could even remotely come close to winning this season shows a distinct lack of understanding of nba talent as well as a lack of understanding of advanced stats.  

I calculated Atlanta’s win total based off WARP to be 17 wins, and I gave them a bump to 23 based solely on Bud’s coaching and his ability to maximize what he has.  

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

To even think this team could even remotely come close to winning this season shows a distinct lack of understanding of nba talent as well as a lack of understanding of advanced stats.  

I calculated Atlanta’s win total based off WARP to be 17 wins, and I gave them a bump to 23 based solely on Bud’s coaching and his ability to maximize what he has.  

Winning what??? games?  Yeah, they won games and then dismantled the team...3/5 of the starting line up and much of the veteran bench gone.  Who is left...Tyler Cavanaugh, Plumlee, White, Lee, Dorsey, Magette, Taylor, they were even throwing Morris in there before he went down.  None of those guys were playing when we were beating up the west but when they started getting a lot of playing time, the Hawks started going on long losing streaks.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

Winning what??? games?  Yeah, they won games and then dismantled the team...3/5 of the starting line up and much of the veteran bench gone.  Who is left...Tyler Cavanaugh, Plumlee, White, Lee, Dorsey, Magette, Taylor, they were even throwing Morris in there before he went down.  None of those guys were playing when we were beating up the west but when they started getting a lot of playing time, the Hawks started going on long losing streaks.

The team was dismantled in the off season. 

[Peoriabird]

Just now, KB21 said:

The team was dismantled in the off season. 

Yeah...To get that NBA talent that you spoke of earlier at the top of this year's draft

[Diesel]

9 hours ago, Buzzard said:

So you are going to discount Boston and Bird 6th pick, Boston and Pierce 10th pick, Detroit and Isiah Thomas 2nd pick.

Deisel you are grasping for straws here; and that is just three players off the top of my head.

Oh.  I thought we were talking about in the one and done years.   because in the one and done years, the lottery picks mean a lot less than when guys had to stay 3 and 4 yrs in college.  

[noble]

I've stopped trying to argue this. KB was perfectly happy making the playoffs and being a team with zero superstars, no chance of getting one in FA, and just hoping it happens one day later in the draft. He has said he found the Hawks of the past few years the most he has enjoyed watching the Hawks because there was no selfish star on the team and they played team basketball. I've watched as he has stated repeatedly they could have won a ring with a few minor tweaks, of course forgetting that no team has won a ring without a superstar or at least a lottery pick like the ONE Pistons team. He has made up his mind that because they went full rebuild this team will be bad for 10 years, as if they haven't been "bad" since coming to Atlanta. And when I said bad I mean having zero legitimate shot at a title, at least since Nique was here and had his classic Bird vs Nique series. The NBA is about Superstars, period. It is about being lucky enough to have a generational talent. It so happens that the odds say you are more likely to get one earlier in the draft rather than later. 

So what if we miss getting a Superstar? Fact is you have to have one to win a ring. You have to have one to bring "NBA Level" talent to your team to have a legitimate shot. As much as I loved the last few years and prayed for a miracle, fact is we all knew our weakness was we didn't have a guy who could take over a game, much less a team that could beat a team that had one. A good regular season does not mean you realistically have a shot at a title. Essentially the NBA is 2 seasons. Regular season where you just have to be steady to get into the playoffs. And the playoffs where you need elite talent to make it to the finals.

I respect his stance even though I disagree with it. It's too late to decide whether the team is tanking or not. It is where it is. You don't like it, don't watch. Plain and simple. We are on a path that regardless if you agree or disagree we can't change course now. Let's just look toward the draft and FA and hope our Hawks one day become legitimate title contenders while we are all alive.

Edited April 2, 2018 by noble
Added the final paragraph.

[buckyboy2]

Smh at Milwaukee blowing it...

[Vol4ever]

I thought the idea of tanking was to get the Number 1 pick and get a superstar player.   Well I guess that wont be happening.  

Bottom line is the Hawks do not, just like the Braves, want to spend money.   There are 3 teams in this league that can win a championship, Cleveland, GS, and Houston.    I dont see a game changing player in this draft.  Lebron and Jordan come along once in 10 years or so.

Its gonna be 5-10 years before we contend again.

 

[KB21]

46 minutes ago, Vol4ever said:

I thought the idea of tanking was to get the Number 1 pick and get a superstar player.   Well I guess that wont be happening.  

Bottom line is the Hawks do not, just like the Braves, want to spend money.   There are 3 teams in this league that can win a championship, Cleveland, GS, and Houston.    I dont see a game changing player in this draft.  Lebron and Jordan come along once in 10 years or so.

Its gonna be 5-10 years before we contend again.

 

Actually, the point of tanking is to control payroll cost while you are bad to increase ownership profits, but they try to convince you that is is all about getting that #1 pick.  

[AHF]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Actually, the point of tanking is to control payroll cost while you are bad to increase ownership profits, but they try to convince you that is is all about getting that #1 pick.  

Which is why we didn't cut payroll this season and have made less profits this year given the decreased attendance, food sales, merchandise sales, etc.  We are doing this all for the money even though by this decision we know we will make less of it!

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Which is why we didn't cut payroll this season and have made less profits this year given the decreased attendance, food sales, merchandise sales, etc.  We are doing this all for the money even though by this decision we know we will make less of it!

Two points.  First, you will see what I mean by controlling costs when Atlanta doesn’t spend any money in the off season.  

Second, it’s not a coincidence that they tanked just after having a record revenue year due to TV contracts   Increased revenue plus controlled cost expenditure equals increase profit.  

 

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Two points.  First, you will see what I mean by controlling costs when Atlanta doesn’t spend any money in the off season.  

Second, it’s not a coincidence that they tanked just after having a record revenue year due to TV contracts   Increased revenue plus controlled cost expenditure equals increase profit.  

 

I'm not sure what you mean.  Are you talking about spending less in FA while taking on more money in trades?  How does that save the team money YOY if the end result is a payroll that is basically the same (started higher this year than last year)?

[Peoriabird]

32 minutes ago, AHF said:

I'm not sure what you mean.  Are you talking about spending less in FA while taking on more money in trades?  How does that save the team money YOY if the end result is a payroll that is basically the same (started higher this year than last year)?

I swear something ain't right with that guy.  1st people are complaining about how we are over paying for Baze and Plumlee and then the argument shifts to we are too cheap!  Which is it?

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, AHF said:

Which is why we didn't cut payroll this season and have made less profits this year given the decreased attendance, food sales, merchandise sales, etc.  We are doing this all for the money even though by this decision we know we will make less of it!

Not so sure about that.  Not resigning Paul and THJr was a money saver.   Yeah, moving Dwight was just a stupid deal that will save a small amount in the future but the other part of a new GM coming in is just cleaning house. 

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Not so sure about that.  Not resigning Paul and THJr was a money saver.   Yeah, moving Dwight was just a stupid deal that will save a small amount in the future but the other part of a new GM coming in is just cleaning house. 

We would have paid the tax this year with both of them.  That is just avoiding being a moron.  Tax line was roughly $119M.  This team might not even make the playoffs.  Why would you pay the tax when we weren't willing to pay the tax in prior years?

When we have never been willing to pay the tax, you aren't saving money by only slightly increasing your opening day payroll.

 

Roster Spots	Diesel Roster	Salary
1	Dwight Howard	$23,500,000
2	Paul Millsap	$31,269,231
3	Kent Bazemore	$16,910,113
4	Ersan Ilyasova	$6,000,000
5	John Collins	$1,936,920
6	Tyler Dorsey	$815,615
7	Dennis Schröder	$15,500,000
8	Malcolm Delaney	$2,500,000
9	Taurean Waller-Prince	$2,422,560
10	DeAndre' Bembry	$1,567,200
11	Mike Muscala	$5,000,000
12	Tim Hardaway	$16,500,000
13
14
15
	Total:	$123,921,639