SO....MANY....DOUBTERS

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

What else can you go off of to draw conclusions about how elite someone is?

You have to understand the stats if you are going to use them.  Assists in hockey have a different meaning than in soccer.  Assists have different rules in Europe than NA.  He was an elite passer in Europe.  No need to pretend NA assists are compared apples to apples with European assist stats.

Bigger picture Trae is now our leader in training.  I don’t think it will take him a year to be our starter - I am expecting that to come this season.  Elements of his game should take a couple years to fully blossom but his shooting should be there out of the gate and this year’s team will be a low pressure environment to learn in. Pierce knows this is the guy who will be pulling the strings on his offense for years to come so he needs to give him the right guidance from the start and just work on each element of Trae’s game at it own pace.

Trae should be a huge upgrade on Dennis for feeding Collins from day 1 and the two of them should make a very exciting pick and roll pair with elite rim running and shooting elements.  

Trae doesn’t make draft decisions so anyone (myself included) who wanted Doncic shouldn’t hold it against him.  Like Kg said, we are Hawks fans first and foremost and he is our highest upside Hawk in a while.  Can’t wait to see him on the floor.

 

[deester11]

Hat. Grrrr

[mrhonline]

There was a study a few years back that compared Euroleague assist rates to NBA rates for players that played in both leagues. I can't seem to find it right now, but I did find this one again:

http://basketball-statistics.com/howdoeuroleaguestatisticstranslatetothenba.html

Quote

NBA field goal attempts, field goal percentage, free throw attempts, and fouls are the least predictable based on a player’s Euroleague stats.  Three point attempts, three point percentage, rebounds, assists, and blocks are the most predictable. 

Regardless, I think both Young and Doncic will be good passers in the NBA. The differences between them are Young's lack of size and Doncic's lack of consistent perimeter shooting.

Looking at the draft, it's clear that the Hawks are going all-in on perimeter shooting ability. Whether favoring shooting over all other skills is the right move...well, time will tell.

[mrhonline]

Found it.  It was from Hollinger (and it's dated): Euro translations

Quote

The reason this works is that there's a predictable relationship between a player's stats in the Euroleague -- the highest level of European basketball -- and what they'll be in the NBA. Crossing the Atlantic does the following to a player's results:

• Scoring rate decreases 25 percent
• Rebound rate increases by 18 percent (there are more missed shots in NBA play)
• Assist rate increases by 31 percent (Euro scorers are tightwads with assists)
• Shooting percentage drops by 12 percent
• Overall, PER drops by 30 percent.

 

[Spud2nique]

15 minutes ago, AHF said:

You have to understand the stats if you are going to use them.  Assists in hockey have a different meaning than in soccer.  Assists have different rules in Europe than NA.  He was an elite passer in Europe.  No need to pretend NA assists are compared apples to apples with European assist stats.

Bigger picture Trae is now our leader in training.  I don’t think it will take him a year to be our starter - I am expecting that to come this season.  Elements of his game should take a couple years to fully blossom but his shooting should be there out of the gate and this year’s team will be a low pressure environment to learn in. Pierce knows this is the guy who will be pulling the strings on his offense for years to come so he needs to give him the right guidance from the start and just work on each element of Trae’s game at it own pace.

Trae should be a huge upgrade on Dennis for feeding Collins from day 1 and the two of them should make a very exciting pick and roll pair with elite rim running and shooting elements.  

Trae doesn’t make draft decisions so anyone (myself included) who wanted Doncic shouldn’t hold it against him.  Like Kg said, we are Hawks fans first and foremost and he is our highest upside Hawk in a while.  Can’t wait to see him on the floor.

 

He’s gonna hit the floor running for sure. Highest upside Hawk in a while for sure and he might be the best passer we’ve ever had. The best natural passer. Better than Doc, Spud, Mookie, Teague etc. His vision is off the charts imo. I’ve seen a few guys with his vision..Jason Kidd, Steve Nash and Kendall Marshall...ok maybe Kendall almost had it...but it’s been a long time coming for us.

 

When I was younger I always wanted a Zeke for us likenthe Pistons had..then a Kidd...Nash..cp3..etc. We finally got our guy. Exciting times ahead no doubt!

[Jody23]

I've been digesting the results of the draft and although I wish there were less protections on that pick from Dallas, I'll give Schlenk credit for at least getting one in this situation.

I'll admit that during the season, I was a big fan of what Trae did in college and not that big off a Doncic fan, although I don't want to short change his talent and what he has the potential to become.  Although I'm excited to have Trae Young as a Hawk, his lack of size does concern me.  But, I'll be rooting for him and the Hawks nonetheless.

[Spud2nique]

4 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

I've been digesting the results of the draft and although I wish there were less protections on that pick from Dallas, I'll give Schlenk credit for at least getting one in this situation.

I'll admit that during the season, I was a big fan of what Trae did in college and not that big off a Doncic fan, although I don't want to short change his talent and what he has the potential to become.  Although I'm excited to have Trae Young as a Hawk, his lack of size does concern me.  But, I'll be rooting for him and the Hawks nonetheless.

Yes sir! And as you famously quoted on squawk...

”Onto the next one”..(whether it’s a draft of game just onto the next one).

[Jody23]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

Yes sir! And as you famously quoted on squawk...

”Onto the next one”..(whether it’s a draft of game just onto the next one).

And you know this man!  Go Hawks!

[Peoriabird]

20 minutes ago, mrhonline said:

Found it.  It was from Hollinger (and it's dated): Euro translations

 

So you are saying that his assist should be higher in Europe Right?

[terrell]

10 hours ago, JTB said:

 

 

~GO ATL Hawks

Quiz: What’s better than 3?...Trae!!!

Everyone wants to talk about Trae and Huerters defense, or lack there of, when the truth is, both Curry AND Klay were also bad defenders coming out. And they were both Juniors.....Mark Jackson taught them how to play defense...Just sayin...Defense CAN be taught. Will either of them ever make an All NBA defensive team? Nope. But I think theyll be alright in time.......

[Peoriabird]

6 minutes ago, terrell said:

Everyone wants to talk about Trae and Huerters defense, or lack there of, when the truth is, both Curry AND Klay were also bad defenders coming out. And they were both Juniors.....Mark Jackson taught them how to play defense...Just sayin...Defense CAN be taught. Will either of them ever make an All NBA defensive team? Nope. But I think theyll be alright in time.......

You can't say anything positive about the Hawks yet...Didn't you get that memo?

[terrell]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

You can't say anything positive about the Hawks yet...Didn't you get that memo?

I, for one,  think we've nailed 2 drafts in a row..Only time will tell though..I wanted Doncic, Bamba, or Young this draft tbh. I was torn. lol. But give me either one of those players AND a 1st rd pick? Im sold..

[terrell]

6 minutes ago, terrell said:

I, for one,  think we've nailed 2 drafts in a row..Only time will tell though..I wanted Doncic, Bamba, or Young this draft tbh. I was torn. lol. But give me either one of those players AND a 1st rd pick? Im sold..

I actually preferred offense over defense, so Im happy..Go Hawks.

[Flight]

I think one of the main things I’m excited about with Trae’s future is the magnetism he has. He’s the type of player that other players want to play with. If he really fulfills his potential he may be the one to change the culture of bringing free agents to Atlanta.

[terrell]

4 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

This is exactly how I feel. My annoyance is not the player but the return in general (should have been top 2 protected) and the initial rumors of what the trade entailed - dumping Baze. 

Meh. Im not a huge Baze fan, but I dont mind keeping him around. You need a few vets on a rebuilding team full of young players..Plus he can help hide Trae on defense while he learns.

[Devon]

i haven't posted here in a long time and I've been thinking about this move from THE ENTIRE DRAFT and I think it's full of overreaches for system players that Schlenk wants; you could see the room was divided on the draft cam.

My main gripe with the move is the pick protection(s) and the fact that I see Collin Sexton as a better player than Young and; aside from being a local product (Pebblebrook H.S.) that went 3 spots later, when the two went head-to-head Sexton ate Young's lunch...

- I do think Trae is too slight and those of you saying he's 6'2" are out of your mind... By no means is he finished developing strength but he's every bit of 6' and as we saw at OU the best way to play him is to body him up ala Jevon Carter at WVU or Sexton from 'Bama

- I dislike that people fail to highlight his leading of the nation in turnovers while also highlighting his scoring/assists... be real... He takes chances unnecessarily at times and it led to a LOT of TO's

- His defense will be a problem against certain guards in the NBA as was going to be the case no matter whom we drafted; his frame will only highlight this difficulty for the first 2-3 seasons IMHO

Huerter picked a bad school/system for his style of play... I also know he recently had or is having surgery on his shooting hand... I also know his composite draft ranking was somewhere around 38-42; I think we reached; I hope I'm proven wrong and he's more Klay Thompson than Adam Keefe.

Spellman was a reach but he's a winner from a winning program with a great coach. I think he'll be that tweener "Stretch4/Small Ball 5" that can shoot and unclog the lane... I'll hold out thoughts on this one even though on paper it looks like a player we could've had at #34...

Which brings me to that... Why in the world did we throw that pick away for two ('19 & '23) 2nd rounders from Charlotte? I wasn't really digging the Graham pick but once I saw the trade I was just downright pissed.

Next years' draft class sucks... Dallas will either go all out to win or be a competitor for Top5 next season and the same w/Cleveland and their Top10 protected pick we "have"...

i'm all for assets... I just think Doncic and getting back into the lottery for a Sexton/Porter, Jr./Knox type of player was the "Super Aggressive" way that Koonin had me fluffed into thinking we might actually pull off...

i go to a LOT of games... 

I don't like this move, this draft, this long play suckitude... but its whatever

m'eh

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, Flight said:

I think one of the main things I’m excited about with Trae’s future is the magnetism he has. He’s the type of player that other players want to play with. If he really fulfills his potential he may be the one to change the culture of bringing free agents to Atlanta.

Yes...I believe this too. I made a thread suggesting we would be the biggest players in FA in a couple of years because everyone wants to play with Trae.

[kerrypack]

trae is 6'2.

https://stats.nba.com/draft/combine-anthro/#!?sort=HEIGHT_W_SHOES&dir=-1

average wingspan.

 

[terrell]

39 minutes ago, Devon said:

i haven't posted here in a long time and I've been thinking about this move from THE ENTIRE DRAFT and I think it's full of overreaches for system players that Schlenk wants; you could see the room was divided on the draft cam.

My main gripe with the move is the pick protection(s) and the fact that I see Collin Sexton as a better player than Young and; aside from being a local product (Pebblebrook H.S.) that went 3 spots later, when the two went head-to-head Sexton ate Young's lunch...

- I do think Trae is too slight and those of you saying he's 6'2" are out of your mind... By no means is he finished developing strength but he's every bit of 6' and as we saw at OU the best way to play him is to body him up ala Jevon Carter at WVU or Sexton from 'Bama

- I dislike that people fail to highlight his leading of the nation in turnovers while also highlighting his scoring/assists... be real... He takes chances unnecessarily at times and it led to a LOT of TO's

- His defense will be a problem against certain guards in the NBA as was going to be the case no matter whom we drafted; his frame will only highlight this difficulty for the first 2-3 seasons IMHO

Huerter picked a bad school/system for his style of play... I also know he recently had or is having surgery on his shooting hand... I also know his composite draft ranking was somewhere around 38-42; I think we reached; I hope I'm proven wrong and he's more Klay Thompson than Adam Keefe.

Spellman was a reach but he's a winner from a winning program with a great coach. I think he'll be that tweener "Stretch4/Small Ball 5" that can shoot and unclog the lane... I'll hold out thoughts on this one even though on paper it looks like a player we could've had at #34...

Which brings me to that... Why in the world did we throw that pick away for two ('19 & '23) 2nd rounders from Charlotte? I wasn't really digging the Graham pick but once I saw the trade I was just downright pissed.

Next years' draft class sucks... Dallas will either go all out to win or be a competitor for Top5 next season and the same w/Cleveland and their Top10 protected pick we "have"...

i'm all for assets... I just think Doncic and getting back into the lottery for a Sexton/Porter, Jr./Knox type of player was the "Super Aggressive" way that Koonin had me fluffed into thinking we might actually pull off...

i go to a LOT of games... 

I don't like this move, this draft, this long play suckitude... but its whatever

m'eh

Trae Young put up 29 and 5 vs West Virginia. lol. And when did Sexton "eat his lunch"?. They had similar numbers head to head..Trae had 17/8. Sexton had 18. Young is the better shooter and passer. Ill go with him...

[deester11]

38 minutes ago, Devon said:

i haven't posted here in a long time and I've been thinking about this move from THE ENTIRE DRAFT and I think it's full of overreaches for system players that Schlenk wants; you could see the room was divided on the draft cam.

My main gripe with the move is the pick protection(s) and the fact that I see Collin Sexton as a better player than Young and; aside from being a local product (Pebblebrook H.S.) that went 3 spots later, when the two went head-to-head Sexton ate Young's lunch...

- I do think Trae is too slight and those of you saying he's 6'2" are out of your mind... By no means is he finished developing strength but he's every bit of 6' and as we saw at OU the best way to play him is to body him up ala Jevon Carter at WVU or Sexton from 'Bama

- I dislike that people fail to highlight his leading of the nation in turnovers while also highlighting his scoring/assists... be real... He takes chances unnecessarily at times and it led to a LOT of TO's

I agree on the points about the protection, it is what it is.  If you truly watched the Sexton vs. Young matchup,, note quite a few things:  Alabama had better scorers, and Sexton put up 14 shots for his 18, while Young put up 17 for 17.  Now is that the be all factor? Nope.  They both had moments and that's why they are who they are.  As a matter of fact, Sexton torched Young on a drive to hoop that was nice.  But Young crossed over Sexton, left him to right and hit an uncanny 3!  I'm sure it'll be a battle for some time while they are pros.

Where you are wrong about the two is thinking along with all the media that Young is so slight that he was some pinwheel all the time.  Defensively, he has shortcomings, but you DO KNOW, at one point in the season head to head against Sexton, he beat him in points, assists (Sexton averaged 3.6 PER GAME) and REBOUNDS (.1 more, but still)?  Collin is more athletic and bigger.  That's undeniable, but one game of eating "Young's lunch," is simply not indicative of the better PG.