Series: How Good Could John Collins Be?

[Diesel]

A 6'10"  PF/C Coming of a 20/10 Season.  IS this the best that he can be?  IF not How good could he be... and who in the History of Basketball do you think he could compare favorably with in Style of Play, Size, and Aggression?

[Peoriabird]

33 minutes ago, Diesel said:

A 6'10"  PF/C Coming off a 20/10 Season.  IS this the best that he can be? 

This is an easy one...No! Only a select few players peak out at 21.

[enrique]

I think JC can be our version of KG. He is already flashing a much better eFG% and instincts offensively. What will remain is the defensive play. He is no where near his peak!!!

[TheFuzz]

I see a lot of Amare in his prime. Has to learn to be a solid defender, but his roll+pop ability is gonna be NASTY

[JayBirdHawk]

His offense as explosive as it is can get a lot better, not necessarily scoring a bunch more points but in the way he scores.

1. When teams cut off the lob or at rim PnR action, he has to be able to make a play/pass if he has the ball. 

2. His ball handling in general. Dribble/shoot or dribble/pass

3. His post game

4. I would like to see a midrange PnP especially when teams clog the lane.

5. Improve his 3pt shot

Defense is where he needs work and consistency.

[NBASupes]

Modern 

[Diesel]

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

I believe JC can become so much better and has yet to hit his ceiling, but who we sign/trade/draft for our starting center spot could put a fork in the road for his career. A center who fills up the paint would force JC to be a stretch 4.  A center who can hit a three would free JC up to become better at what he already is.

[enrique]

52 minutes ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

I believe JC can become so much better and has yet to hit his ceiling, but who we sign/trade/draft for our starting center spot could put a fork in the road for his career. A center who fills up the paint would force JC to be a stretch 4.  A center who can hit a three would free JC up to become better at what he already is.

Thanks for resurrecting this thread! Definitely our supporting casts will effect jc development and performance. 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

I believe JC can become so much better and has yet to hit his ceiling, but who we sign/trade/draft for our starting center spot could put a fork in the road for his career. A center who fills up the paint would force JC to be a stretch 4.  A center who can hit a three would free JC up to become better at what he already is.

 

6 minutes ago, enrique said:

Thanks for resurrecting this thread! Definitely our supporting casts will effect jc development and performance. 

LP also needs to run sime plays for him.

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

LP also needs to run sime plays for him.

I've complained about that in the past but it boggles my mind that he doesn't run plays for John.  It's like "he is this good without plays so why bother?"  He should be the #2 featured player on our roster but sometimes seems like an afterthought for how he will get his shots.

[JTB]

12 minutes ago, AHF said:

I've complained about that in the past but it boggles my mind that he doesn't run plays for John.  It's like "he is this good without plays so why bother?"  He should be the #2 featured player on our roster but sometimes seems like an afterthought for how he will get his shots.

I think it’s because he’s so good as a big man at setting committed screens on and off ball, moving off ball (not necessarily like korver of course but moving in good position to be open), and then add his BBIQ being good on the offensive end when it comes to spacing or cutting to the goal even  when he’s not setting any picks...that LPs mindset as a coach is that this guy is going to be open and get his points on plays even when we literally run the play away from him or not for him.....

then on top of all that JC is very good at finishing plays PERIOD. Rolling to the goal or stepping out for the 3 doesn’t matter if Collins has a good look he will score!

that to me is the things collins can be elite at...he isn’t much of a put the ball on the ground and score type of scorer and think that’s why some of our fans undervalue him but I always say you need a guy on the team like Collins cause everyone can’t handle the ball , even if Collins did have that ability we would still need some off ball talent scorers to go with Trae & Huerter.

Collins to me is the Amare Stoudamire of this era but with a 3pt shot. Dude just excels at the things that don’t show up on the box score but he’s a good enough finisher to reveal the results. If there’s anything he could probably become elite at that will show up on the box score where it’d give him more recognition it would probably be him going from a 36% 3pt shooter to a 40% 3pt shooter. I actually believe he very well can do that in fact.

[NBASupes]

11 minutes ago, JTB said:

I think it’s because he’s so good as a big man at setting committed screens on and off ball, moving off ball (not necessarily like korver of course but moving in good position to be open), and then add his BBIQ being good on the offensive end when it comes to spacing or cutting to the goal even  when he’s not setting any picks...that LPs mindset as a coach is that this guy is going to be open and get his points on plays even when we literally run the play away from him or not for him.....

then on top of all that JC is very good at finishing plays PERIOD. Rolling to the goal or stepping out for the 3 doesn’t matter if Collins has a good look he will score!

that to me is the things collins can be elite at...he isn’t much of a put the ball on the ground and score type of scorer and think that’s why some of our fans undervalue him but I always say you need a guy on the team like Collins cause everyone can’t handle the ball , even if Collins did have that ability we would still need some off ball talent scorers to go with Trae & Huerter.

Collins to me is the Amare Stoudamire of this era but with a 3pt shot. Dude just excels at the things that don’t show up on the box score but he’s a good enough finisher to reveal the results. If there’s anything he could probably become elite at that will show up on the box score where it’d give him more recognition it would probably be him going from a 36% 3pt shooter to a 40% 3pt shooter. I actually believe he very well can do that in fact.

Amare wasn't good at anything that didn't show up on a stat sheet though 

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

39 minutes ago, AHF said:

I've complained about that in the past but it boggles my mind that he doesn't run plays for John.  It's like "he is this good without plays so why bother?"  He should be the #2 featured player on our roster but sometimes seems like an afterthought for how he will get his shots.

He plays cleanup for us. He only shoots when he's open and he's not a guy that's going to breakdown a defender. The only plays that we'd run for him is in the post, but I cannot imagine string-bean JC backing someone down or having a post move. It would be cool if he added the Dream shake like KG did.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

12 minutes ago, JTB said:

Collins to me is the Amare Stoudamire of this era but with a 3pt shot. Dude just excels at the things that don’t show up on the box score but he’s a good enough finisher to reveal the results. If there’s anything he could probably become elite at that will show up on the box score where it’d give him more recognition it would probably be him going from a 36% 3pt shooter to a 40% 3pt shooter. I actually believe he very well can do that in fact.

Posters keep comparing him to A'mare but to me he's more of a cross between Kemp and KG.

[NBASupes]

Hard to find a real comparison for him this year. He kinda shows shades of a very young Rasheed Wallace. Tough. His PnR play reminds you on Shawn Kemp

[AHF]

53 minutes ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

He plays cleanup for us. He only shoots when he's open and he's not a guy that's going to breakdown a defender. The only plays that we'd run for him is in the post, but I cannot imagine string-bean JC backing someone down or having a post move. It would be cool if he added the Dream shake like KG did.

At a very bare minimum, you can run him off picks to help him rolling to the basket.  I don't accept that "cleanup" is all he can do, though.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

On 1/16/2020 at 11:40 AM, AHF said:

At a very bare minimum, you can run him off picks to help him rolling to the basket.  I don't accept that "cleanup" is all he can do, though.

Majority of his points comes at the hoop on oops and off rebounds. He can hit a three, can drive off a pass (give n go), and run the PnR, but he's not a guy you run the offense through like Embiid, Jokic, or other big guys. There's nothing wrong with it and I'm happy with his production. He's guy you want surrounded by shooters because those missed shots are like chocolates chips to the Cookie Monster... and he plays good defense and helps well.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

Majority of his points comes at the hoop on oops and off rebounds. He can hit a three, can drive off a pass (give n go), and run the PnR, but he's not a guy you run the offense through like Embiid, Jokic, or other big guys. There's nothing wrong with it and I'm happy with his production. He's guy you want surrounded by shooters because those missed shots are like chocolates chips to the Cookie Monster... and he plays good defense and helps well.

I don't think the offense should be run through him.  It will be and should be run through Trae.

That said, I still think there is more action you can run for him outside of him running to the hoop and grabbing offensive rebounds.  I've seen him successfully drive to the basket, shoot a fadeaway, post up, take 3's, etc. and think he can do more of that where it is being optimized with picks, etc. designed to get him open.