Time to have the uncomfortable conversation about Bogdanovic

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

You are so funny!  You are actually comparing these 2???  LOL!

Funny you should mention.  I was not happy with the original deal to get Bogi and the squawk experts said "he's the closest thing to having Klay".   I would take a Busted up/repaired Klay over Bogi...   Bogi's defense is not in the same Galaxy as Klay's.   But Bogi does have Heart.   I will give him that... he's fiery.   But right now it seems like we got a much better deal with Gallo. 

[Peoriabird]

6 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Funny you should mention.  I was not happy with the original deal to get Bogi and the squawk experts said "he's the closest thing to having Klay".   I would take a Busted up/repaired Klay over Bogi...   Bogi's defense is not in the same Galaxy as Klay's.   But Bogi does have Heart.   I will give him that... he's fiery.   But right now it seems like we got a much better deal with Gallo. 

Klay Thompson is the same age as Bogi...Has never shot under 40% from 3 in any season for his career and is career 42% 3 point shooter on 7 attempts per game during his 8 year career.  Bogi has been in the league only 4 years and is a 39% 3 point shooter on 5.8 attempts per game with a season low of 36% from 3 his 2nd year in the league.  We don't even want to talk playoff performances so no they aren't even close on offense

[marco102]

31 minutes ago, Cwell said:

The Knicks were garbage and he wasn't even good against them. Stop the cap. This is a result of the injury plus Bogi being shook. When Kevin gets to the FT line more than you there's a problem. Not even one attempt vs the knicks

Go pull up Trae's percentages and tell me he's not any good. 

[Cwell]

deflection

[Diesel]

5 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Klay Thompson is the same age as Bogi...Has never shot under 40% from 3 in any season for his career and is career 42% 3 point shooter on 7 attempts per game during his 8 year career.  Bogi has been in the league only 4 years and is a 39% 3 point shooter on 5.8 attempts per game with a season low of 36% from 3 his 2nd year in the league.  We don't even want to talk playoff performances so no they aren't even close on offense

OT...  GS is building a monster over there.   They got 2 more lottery picks in this lottery and Klay is coming back.   IF they did parlay Wiggins and Obry into Simmons.. they would be a defensive Juggernaut with Steph, Klay, Simmons, Green, and Wiseman on the floor together.   They'd lock up the West. 

[Cwell]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

Go pull up Trae's percentages and tell me he's not any good. 

deflection

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, Cwell said:

deflection

No it's a greater point.  Pero has an agenda and we all admit Bogi isn't playing well.  However, that doesn't mean we should trade him right away because Pero has some affliction with the young core members he thinks will be traded or not get playing time because Bogi is on the team. 

We should at least want to see how a healthy Bogi performs in another playoffs run to determine if this is who he is in the playoffs.  Some players can play well through injury and some can't.  Bogi at the beginning of the season was recovering from Covid and sucked.  Then he caught fire.  I expect the real Bogi to be between who was at the end of the season and the injured one we are currently seeing. 

We can all agree he's not playing well and probably should get less playing time.  However, trading him and saying he's always sucked is the point you are supporting from Pero.  When BOGI and his play is one of the main reasons we got to the playoffs in the first place. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by marco102

[kg01]

7 minutes ago, Diesel said:

OT...  GS is building a monster over there.   They got 2 more lottery picks in this lottery and Klay is coming back.   IF they did parlay Wiggins and Obry into Simmons.. they would be a defensive Juggernaut with Steph, Klay, Simmons, Green, and Wiseman on the floor together.   They'd lock up the West. 

GS drafts poorly now that the folks that built the dynasty are gone.  I ain't a-feared.  And Simmons and Draymond are basically the same player.

[marco102]

13 minutes ago, Diesel said:

OT...  GS is building a monster over there.   They got 2 more lottery picks in this lottery and Klay is coming back.   IF they did parlay Wiggins and Obry into Simmons.. they would be a defensive Juggernaut with Steph, Klay, Simmons, Green, and Wiseman on the floor together.   They'd lock up the West. 

I read they are willing to trade the number 7 pick, their current pick, and Wiseman for an upgrade.  I'd be very interested in Wiseman if I were the Hawks, but the Hawks aren't trading anything to get him. 

[Diesel]

5 minutes ago, kg01 said:

GS drafts poorly now that the folks that built the dynasty are gone.  I ain't a-feared.  And Simmons and Draymond are basically the same player.

I liked the Wiseman pick.  It made a lot of sense.   And I guess the litmus for your statement will be Nico Mannion vs. Skylar Mayes.

 

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I read they are willing to trade the number 7 pick, their current pick, and Wiseman for an upgrade.  I'd be very interested in Wiseman if I were the Hawks, but the Hawks aren't trading anything to get him. 

Yeah.. i would too... I can't believe that statement.   What would they consider as an Upgrade?

For Wiseman and #7.. I would easily give them Reddish. 

Yeah..

Bogi &Reddish for Oubre, Wiseman and #7 is a done deal all day. 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

So was Embiid!  We cover this

This is so fundamentally unsound.  For so many reasons.  Bad argument.

[Diesel]

I just did the reading.

 

Siakam for Wiseman and #7.

Damn.

I would say offer Collins.  But.... 

Damn.

 

[Cwell]

5 minutes ago, marco102 said:

No it's a greater point.  Pero has an agenda and we all admit Bogi isn't playing well.  However, that doesn't mean we should trade him right away because Pero has some affliction with the young core members he thinks will be traded or not get playing time because Bogi is on the team. 

We should at least want to see how a healthy Bogi performs in another playoffs run to determine if this is who he is in the playoffs.  Some players can play well through injury and some can't.  Bogi at the beginning of the season was recovering from Covid and sucked.  Then he caught fire.  I expect the real Bogi to be between who was at the end of the season and the injured one we are currently seeing. 

We can all agree he's not playing well and probably should get less playing time.  However, trading him and saying he's always sucked is the point you are supporting from Pero.  When BOGI and his play is one of the main reasons we got to the playoffs in the first place. 

No it's a blatant deflection to take accountability away from Bogi being shook in the playoffs. The same as saying his struggles is 100% on his injury. You're talking about what another man said. He's not me. Talk about what I said. You can't say Bogi's early season play is the exception while his astronomical play in just April and May are the rule when he's never played like that his entire career. He's somewhere in the middle. Bogi's play down the stretch is a big reason we turned our season around. He was averaging 22 points on 50% from the field and from 3. Do you REALLY think he was gonna maintain that?

Bogi's numbers have been down across the board in every playoff series, but your response is "BUT LOOK AT TRAE!"? Is that not the definition of deflecting? Trae isn't falling from 22 ppg to 14 to 13 to 6, but look at Trae. 50% to 33% vs a trash team that didn't even fight back to dumpster

[kg01]

11 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I liked the Wiseman pick.  It made a lot of sense.   And I guess the litmus for your statement will be Nico Mannion vs. Skylar Mayes.

 

It was the easy choice, I guess.  Mannion and Poole are on the list.  Which of their other picks have panned out in any meaningful way?

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, Cwell said:

No it's a blatant deflection to take accountability away from Bogi being shook in the playoffs. The same as saying his struggles is 100% on his injury. You're talking about what another man said. He's not me. Talk about what I said. You can't say Bogi's early season play is the exception while his astronomical play in just April and May are the rule when he's never played like that his entire career. He's somewhere in the middle. Bogi's play down the stretch is a big reason we turned our season around. He was averaging 22 points on 50% from the field and from 3. Do you REALLY think he was gonna maintain that?

Bogi's numbers have been down across the board in every playoff series, but your response is "BUT LOOK AT TRAE!"? Is that not the definition of deflecting? Trae isn't falling from 22 ppg to 14 to 13 to 6, but look at Trae. 50% to 33% vs a trash team that didn't even fight back to dumpster

Nope.  My response was you can't just pull up stats without some context.  Bogi has already proven that he doesn't play well with injury. In my post I said exactly what you are saying. He's some where in between. He's probably not as bad as this playoff run with the injury and not as good he was at the end of the season.  All I'm saying is we would probably want to get a look at him semi healthy before trading him away or saying this is who he will be in the playoffs going forward. Especially considering this is also his first playoff run.  

Not saying his play doesn't suck. Just saying his sucky play should not mean don't give him credit for getting us here and this some referendum on who he is. 

But if you guys want to continue bitching about something that won't change (Bogi being on the team). Proceed. 

[Peoriabird]

41 minutes ago, AHF said:

This is so fundamentally unsound.  For so many reasons.  Bad argument.

Why? Both guys had Knee injuries that were being monitored.  In fact, Embiid had an actual diagnosis leading to pain and swelling after each game while Bogi did not. I don't even think Bogi got an MRI which indicates a lack of concern by the medical staff.  Embiid actually missed time while Bogi did not.  Embiid has more responsibility on offense and defense so he had more pressure to perform vs Bogi limited role. Embiid wore down in the 2nd halves of games because of lack of conditioning because of the injury and heavy minutes but always bounced back the next game.  Bottom line is y'all like this guy and you're willing over exaggerating his injury to explain away his poor playoff performances thus far.

[AHF]

36 minutes ago, Cwell said:

No it's a blatant deflection to take accountability away from Bogi being shook in the playoffs. The same as saying his struggles is 100% on his injury. You're talking about what another man said. He's not me. Talk about what I said. You can't say Bogi's early season play is the exception while his astronomical play in just April and May are the rule when he's never played like that his entire career. He's somewhere in the middle. Bogi's play down the stretch is a big reason we turned our season around. He was averaging 22 points on 50% from the field and from 3. Do you REALLY think he was gonna maintain that?

Bogi's numbers have been down across the board in every playoff series, but your response is "BUT LOOK AT TRAE!"? Is that not the definition of deflecting? Trae isn't falling from 22 ppg to 14 to 13 to 6, but look at Trae. 50% to 33% vs a trash team that didn't even fight back to dumpster

Exactly.  He has played 250 games in the league.  That total sample size gives you a much better sense of who he is than any 10, 20, or 30 game sample.  He has averaged 14-16 ppg since his rookie season with about 3.5 boards and 3.5 assists.  He shoots roughly 44% / 39% / 82%.  What I dislike is seeing a poster jump on his first dozen or so games for this team (when he was hurt) and use those to try to suggest he was a massive mistake who will never contribute and then ignore 22 of the 43 games he played this season.  For the playoffs, I have a hard time drawing a ton of conclusions considering he got in maybe a half dozen or so games before his knee became a factor.  After six playoff games, Klay Thompson was averaging a very similar 14.7 ppg (34% 3pt), 3.7 rpg and 1.8 apg.  Klay is a 5x All-Star, multiple All-NBA player who is clearly better but that is kind of like saying LeBron has the better career than Hunter.  Duh.  Just shows that with a small sample size even someone that good can look subpar.  

So I totally agree that taking that majority of his season where he was at his best and acting like that is his true baseline is equally silly (even with a larger sample size).  Look at the larger sample size over his past several seasons and get a better sense for who he is when healthy.

Likewise, ignoring his injury would be crazy to do.  His struggles weren't 100% injury related (that 14.4 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 3.8 apg line against the Knicks came with a very unsatisfactory 33% 3pt%) but they were normal struggles we've seen a million players go through especially their first time in the playoffs.  Layer an injury in (that is clearly affecting his mobility and his shot) and the idea of using his current numbers as some sort of predictive proxy for his future value is just crazy to me.  (I know you aren't doing that but others are.)

[AHF]

41 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Why? Both guys had Knee injuries that were being monitored.  In fact, Embiid had an actual diagnosis while Bogi did not. I don't even think Bogi got an MRI which indicates a lack of concern by the medical staff.  Embiid actually missed time while Bogi did not.  Embiid has more responsibility on offense and defense so he had more pressure to perform vs Bogi limited role.  Bottom line is y'all like this guy and you're willing over exaggerating his injury to explain away his poor playoff performances thus far.

This is hard to process.  You have no idea whether Bogi has a diagnosis and know idea about what kind diagnostic evaluation has been done but you are playing doctor at home and assuming he did not have these things.  

Embiid played 7 games just like Bogi and played more minutes than Bogi and put up career best numbers but you assume his injury affected him worse.  That doesn't make sense.

You use a Superstar as a basis for comparison assuming that different injuries affect all players the same way.  Like if one guy can go with an ankle sprain all guys must be able to go equally well with an ankle sprain.  It doesn't make sense.

You do this while knowing Hunter is out for the playoffs with the same category of injury which just boggles my mind.  According to your logic, Hunter should be suiting up and playing unaffected because Embiid did so.  But that only applies to Bogi in your mind I guess.

Injuries doesn't work like that.  Each injury is specific to that player and the circumstances and limitations that come with them are not able to be peanut buttered over all other players.  Just because one guy with a knee injury is able to play and put up arguably his career best playoff series you think that has anything to do with whether another player is limited.  It doesn't.  A different players' knee injury may be much more debilitating than Embiid's was.  Embiid may be so extraordinary in certain ways that he can still have a dramatic impact on the game even if he is limited while other players may not have that kind of huge physical edge over their competition.  The logic here doesn't follow.

And just watching Bogi on the floor you can't see how the injury has affected him.  I don't get that.  I see the impact on both his mobility and the form / explosiveness of his shot.  How does anyone watching these games not see this?

I don't get it.  I struggle to follow the train of thought and the assumptions that lead from the statements made to the conclusions reached.

[Peoriabird]

On 6/28/2021 at 3:28 PM, AHF said:

And just watching Bogi on the floor you can't see how the injury has affected him.  I don't get that.  I see the impact on both his mobility and the form / explosiveness of his shot.  How does anyone watching these games not see this?

I don't get it.  I struggle to follow the train of thought and the assumptions that lead from the statements made to the conclusions reached.

O.K. Didn't the fans and coaching staff say that he looked better in last night game???  Why were the result  worse?  Maybe his knee is also affecting his decision making too since he screwed up that 3 on 1 fast break with his star point guard running free and a simple pass away.