The East becoming a bloodbath like the West used to be

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, RedDawg#8 said:

How we score is going to change.

This ^.

 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

How we score is going to change. We will not have the safety net of long range shooters that can bail us out of otherwise poor possessions. Murray should provide a higher quality of looks, especially when Trae sits, that allows more possessions to end at the rim or the FT line, that will hopefully mitigate not always having a bunch of 3pt shooters on the floor together.

 

I think this is the biggest thing that people have to get.

We are no long Trae PNR with Clint and surrounded by shooters.   That has changed. 

1.  We have a fast break.

2.   We have a slasher.

3.   Trae can play off ball...

and we still have everything else. 

I say we have failed if we don't institute a fast break.

[Spud2nique]

Just now, Diesel said:

 

I think this is the biggest thing that people have to get.

We are no long Trae PNR with Clint and surrounded by shooters.   That has changed. 

1.  We have a fast break.

2.   We have a slasher.

3.   Trae can play off ball...

and we still have everything else. 

I say we have failed if we don't institute a fast break.

Transition team no doubt. We need to run.

[Diesel]

14 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Transition team no doubt. We need to run.

This year, Nate has no excuse.  He has to make it a plan to run.  Murray is a fast break lead guard.  JC and Capela and Hunter can all finish.   JC especially.  If we run Fast Break BB, we will get 3 guys into the Allstar game and we will be one of the best teams in the league.  That plus, we can still get in the halfcourt set, turn it over to Trae and play PNR.

 

 

[Final_quest]

I think our type of scoring will change a bit and that we will get more transition buckets.  But we have two of the top PNR facilitators in the league, who are also two of the top mid range scorers.  DM gets a ton of buckets with his shot to the left and right of the FT line from PNR action.  

Our offense is still going to be mainly PNR, and that is our strength.  We will not be the Steve Nash Suns.  We will shoot less 3's but will also have more mid range shots and more transition buckets generated by defense.  So in that sense the offense will change, but it's more of a tweak and less of a complete overhaul.  

[Spud2nique]

43 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I think our type of scoring will change a bit and that we will get more transition buckets. 

 

19 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Transition team no doubt. We need to run.

Ya

[Final_quest]

Spud, when I say more transition buckets, I mean we won't be bottom 5 in the league anymore.  To me a "transition team" means that is your dominant offensive philosophy.  We are a PNR team not a transition team, right?  As in we are more likely to be a top 5 PNR buckets team than a top 5 transition buckets team.    

[Spud2nique]

58 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Spud, when I say more transition buckets, I mean we won't be bottom 5 in the league anymore.  To me a "transition team" means that is your dominant offensive philosophy.  We are a PNR team not a transition team, right?  As in we are more likely to be a top 5 PNR buckets team than a top 5 transition buckets team.    

I may be reading this wrong, or just plain dumb but I don’t get it.

[Final_quest]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

I may be reading this wrong, or just plain dumb but I don’t get it.

Long winded way of saying we will run more but our offensive identity is pick and roll.  We won’t be the worst transition team anymore, though.  

[RedDawg#8]

I am a big fan of the collection of talent in Cleveland.

I feel strongly that Evan Mobley is going to be the best player on that roster eventually. He is the only 2 way player they have and he is already dang good defensively with no real holes on offense, just raw.

In the mean time, Mitchell and Garland are both straight buckets, and Mobley and Allen are an elite defensive duo.

Matchup wise, we have the advantage in that they only have 1 strong perimeter defender in Okoro. One of Trae/Murray will always be able to go off. Not to mention, Dre will always have a smaller defender on him who likely is the weakest of their starters. This means that we will always have 2 favorable matchups to exploit on the outside. Cleveland would have to run a lot of zone to funnel guys to the teeth of their defense where the bigs are.

On defense, Dre and Murray are good enough to bother Mitchell and Garland. Trae gets Okoro who is a self check. Allen is only a threat at the rim, where Capela is the best. Mobley is their best matchup on offense against JC, especially because he can score from everywhere. OO is the perfect defender against a player like Mobley.

Chicago, Toronto, Miami, and Milwaukee didn’t really do anything to improve their rosters. Miami and Milwaukee may be good enough to sustain status quo, but Chicago and Toronto will likely take a step back.

Boston got better but only marginally so now that Gallo went down.

Philly is primed to take a leap. Like the Nets, they have the best top end talent with a chip and something to prove. 

My loose predictions:

1. Philly (top 3 guaranteed)

2. Boston (top 3 guaranteed)

3. Milwaukee (can swing from 1-6)

4. Brooklyn (can swing from 1-10)

5. Atlanta (I have us at 4 or 5, upsetting one of the favorites from last season)

6. Miami (they finish within a game of us. We potentially win division on tie breaker scenarios. I predict the biggest drop off of all contender from last season)

7. Cleveland (Can swing anywhere from 4-7)

8. Toronto (will make everyone’s life hard, all season long)

9. Chicago (too talented to suck, but not quite as good as everyone else)

10. Charlotte (too talented to suck, but not quite as good as everyone else)

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

8. Toronto (will make everyone’s life hard, all season long)

Higher.

[Diesel]

11 hours ago, Final_quest said:

Spud, when I say more transition buckets, I mean we won't be bottom 5 in the league anymore.  To me a "transition team" means that is your dominant offensive philosophy.  We are a PNR team not a transition team, right?  As in we are more likely to be a top 5 PNR buckets team than a top 5 transition buckets team.    

I don't think you have to be either or with this, you can be both and .  I think situation dictates what type of offense we have.  meaning, we be opportunistic with the PNR.  If we play teams that are not getting back in transition, then we become a transition team and fast break them to death.  If a team does get back in transition, we quickly move into the PNR.  See Phoenix Suns under D'Antoni.  Part of his appeal to me was that he insisted that his team get up the floor in a hurry.. but when they got there, he had a PNR game that took 7 seconds to develop.   To me, if you can work that out, you will end up breaking down other teams... especially teams of this era.

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Higher.

I don't think Toronto is that good.   A lot of teams benefited from conditions and injuries.   People are excited about Barnes but Barnes didn't show dominance.   He showed consistence.   Now that the report is out on him, he will suffer from the sophomore fallback.   Van Fleet is OK... Pascal is OK... However, I don't think they have that it factor to even be a threat to the top 7 teams.   8 is a gift.  Chicago and the Knicks might be better. 

 

[RedDawg#8]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

I don't think Toronto is that good.   A lot of teams benefited from conditions and injuries.   People are excited about Barnes but Barnes didn't show dominance.   He showed consistence.   Now that the report is out on him, he will suffer from the sophomore fallback.   Van Fleet is OK... Pascal is OK... However, I don't think they have that it factor to even be a threat to the top 7 teams.   8 is a gift.  Chicago and the Knicks might be better. 

 

Toronto is a team that plays better than the talent on paper. I initially had them behind Chicago, but they are just too well coached and fundamentally sound. They certainly give us fits every time we face them.

I would of put them ahead of Cleveland before the Mitchell trade.

On talent they are like 10th or 11th, but their organization gets the most out of their talent. If Toronto had our roster, they would be a top 3 seed easy. Maybe even number 1. If we had Toronto’s roster we would be in the lottery.

Edited September 5, 2022 by RedDawg#8

[Spud2nique]

7 hours ago, Diesel said:

I don't think Toronto is that good.   A lot of teams benefited from conditions and injuries.   People are excited about Barnes but Barnes didn't show dominance.   He showed consistence.   Now that the report is out on him, he will suffer from the sophomore fallback.   Van Fleet is OK... Pascal is OK... However, I don't think they have that it factor to even be a threat to the top 7 teams.   8 is a gift.  Chicago and the Knicks might be better. 

 

Agreed on the individual talent but collectively they seem to work well together. Prolly a case of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.

 

[Spud2nique]

5 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Toronto is a team that plays better than the talent on paper. I initially had them behind Chicago, but they are just too well coached and fundamentally sound. They certainly give us fits every time we face them.

I would of put them ahead of Cleveland before the Mitchell trade.

On talent they are like 10th or 11th, but their organization gets the most out of their talent. If Toronto had our roster, they would be a top 3 seed easy. Maybe even number 1. If we had Toronto’s roster we would be in the lottery.

Higher.

[Diesel]

41 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Agreed on the individual talent but collectively they seem to work well together. Prolly a case of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.

 

That only gets you so far in the NBA.    Toronto played a lot of hurt teams while they were healthy.   In the playoffs, the 76ers almost swept them and would have if Embiid doesn't tear the ligaments in his thumb.  That's the kind of season that Toronto has had.  They are not a dominant team but if you come in hurt, they will win.   Whether the organization/coaching is better, that may be a big factor.   But the guys that they can put on the court shouldn't scare anybody.   And Barnes stole the ROY from CADE Cunningham and Evan Mobley. 

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

On 9/4/2022 at 10:33 AM, Spud2nique said:

I may be reading this wrong, or just plain dumb but I don’t get it.

 

22 hours ago, Final_quest said:

Long winded way of saying we will run more but our offensive identity is pick and roll.  We won’t be the worst transition team anymore, though.  

Yep.

We'll still be a PnR team but maybe less reliant on 3s. We were already a low volume shooting 3 team, so unless Hunter and Collins up their attempts the philosophy changes further. Both Murray and Hunter are decent in the mid range.

The biggest difference will be on fast breaks. I think we've gotten more athletic replacing Huerter (Murray) and Gallo (hopefully Johnson) - so instead of flaring to the 3 point line they'll be running to the front of the rim. We'll need our our young guys to run hard.

[Gray Mule]

The great part of "Everyone in the east is better, including us," all these great teams must play each other.  Health will always be the #1 concern of all the teams.  The next item is coaching.  The number of active NBA coaches is limited.  You must have a good one to have success.

Every off season we hear that all teams are better than last season.  I would be a shock if we didn't.  We believe that we are!

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Gray Mule

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

The great part of "Everyone in the east is better, including us," all these great teams must play each other.  Health will always be the #1 concern of all the teams.  The next item is coaching.  The number of active NBA coaches is limited.  You must have a good one to have success.

My biggest concern is Nate and in game adjustments, coaching by feel and game flow when things are going down hill in lieu of sticking with his 'that's the rotation' mantra.