This team still got fit issues

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Nope...

We play what some call prevent offense.   It's a reversion to what we did that worked in the playoffs and last year.  We had the personnel for that then... not now.  We have trust issues with our offense.  For you to think that our first half and second half offenses are the same means that either you're not watching or your not paying attention.   The ball flows in the first half.   Nique even notes it.  But in the second half,  4th quarter with the starters back out there... we walk it up, pound it out, let the defense get set and try to score against their best defense...  That's a reversion.   If we had somebody who could nail a three pointer then this offense would make sense.   But we don't so it doesn't. 

 

I don't agree. No such thing as prevent offense as you or Jay is saying. What I think you and her are talking about about is us being stationary in crunch time but we tend to be stationary a lot regardless of the quarter or half. 

[JayBirdHawk]

23 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I don't agree. No such thing as prevent offense as you or Jay is saying. What I think you and her are talking about about is us being stationary in crunch time but we tend to be stationary a lot regardless of the quarter or half. 

 

 

It's a tongue in cheek comment, but the difference in pace of play in the last 5/6 minutes of most of our games has been a snails space compared to other quarters more often than not

[Final_quest]

On 2/11/2023 at 6:31 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

It's a tongue in cheek comment, but the difference in pace of play in the last 5/6 minutes of most of our games has been a snails space compared to other quarters more often than not

It seems like a thing to me, and how is there no such thing as prevent offense?  You play at a slower pace, use more clock, and limit passing to cut down the risk of turnovers.  

If the starters have a high level net rating through 3 quarters, I'm not convinced the issue is fit when it could actually be scheme/coaching in the 4th.  

[NBASupes]

I think this team could be in serious trouble. 

[JayBirdHawk]

On 2/11/2023 at 9:24 AM, JayBirdHawk said:

Coaching.

[Watchman]

Yeah, the way they're playing is giving us all fits.

[theheroatl]

First and foremost, the drives into the paint are too easy. The Hawks start every defensive possession out of position to protect the painted area.

My guess is the assistant coaches departing the past two years had a big part in the decline of defensive schemes. The Hawks assistant coaching is basically amateur hour.

Somewhere along the way the Hawks were taught the wrong ways to defend and they kept practicing that in the offseason. 

Now as for players... Dre makes some bone-headed misses too much, CC still can't finish at the rim and has a limited offensive game for a center, JC is JC, Bogi runs around too much with the ball.

 

I still love AJ, OO, Trae, and DJ. Those guys show potential and show up for the most part every day. CC is great but time for a spacing center that can shoot 3's (KAT?).

Edited February 16, 2023 by theheroatl

[JayBirdHawk]

The fit issue we have is that Nate is not a FIT for this Personnel.  

I said it during the first 10 games of last season when we were taking mostly mid-rangers, said it in the early part of this season as well.  Outdated, antiquated, stubborn, resistant to change system.

[NBASupes]

39 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

The fit issue we have is that Nate is not a FIT for this Personnel.  

I said it during the first 10 games of last season when we were taking mostly mid-rangers, said it in the early part of this season as well.  Outdated, antiquated, stubborn, resistant to change system.

The fit issue is personnel based. Nate is just not the solution to our problem. I don't believe any coach is. We need major moves.

[AHF]

23 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

The fit issue we have is that Nate is not a FIT for this Personnel.  

I said it during the first 10 games of last season when we were taking mostly mid-rangers, said it in the early part of this season as well.  Outdated, antiquated, stubborn, resistant to change system.

 

22 hours ago, NBASupes said:

The fit issue is personnel based. Nate is just not the solution to our problem. I don't believe any coach is. We need major moves.

[JayBirdHawk]

On 2/11/2023 at 9:24 AM, JayBirdHawk said:

Coaching.

 

On 2/11/2023 at 10:28 AM, h4wkfan said:

The problem, to me, is Nate, depth and lineups (which is largely driven by depth). 

[JayBirdHawk]

On 2/11/2023 at 10:58 AM, NBASupes said:

I've watched Nate too much to know at worst he's solid and at best he's very good. Generally speaking, he gets out what we usually have. He's showed that everywhere he's been. See all of the teams he's coached. No one got better after he left without personnel changes. I always avoided the idea that he's the problem even if he might not be the solution.

The issue is offense when you don't account for Bogi or Kevin. When you have Trae, offense is far more valuable as he can carry you in the area. 

DJ, Hunter, Capela, and JC are all good to excellent defenders. That's not just average guys. Those are + and ++ guys. I would say very good defenders but JC is very matchup dependent. 

I honestly think yall blame Nate too much when fit is the obvious problem. A coach can't make this shit work. 

You still believe this?

[NBASupes]

44 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

You still believe this?

I don't have a large enough sample size to answer this question with a change in philosophy 

[NBASupes]

13 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

You still believe this?

I had a chance to watch the last 5 games. 

Yes and no. 

The fit issues are with 

Young/Murray/Hunter/JC/Capela

We don't have fit issues with 

Young/Murray/Hunter/Bey/Capela

 

The problem with this team is Capela. 

He needs to replace him and OO simply can't do it as offensively, he's just not good enough nor does he fit what Trae needs at the 5. Capela has weaknesses but he's elite at screening, rolling, using his body for positioning, and understanding angles. He's an elite PnR threat even if he's a so-so finisher. OO was a superior finisher but he's just a decent PnR threat. His screens have improved but he's not much of a threat from the PnR as a finisher. He primarily sets screens for you to use it for your offensive advantage. Whereas Clint sets them for all possible options and he's even added passing out of the short roll to it which has made him even more lethal at the PnR especially since his finishing has gotten worse over the years. 

That said, Clint has anti-gravity. His defense isn't what it used to be. He's still special at paint and rim protection but everything else as gotten a lot worse. His impact on defense is a -0.9. That's f***ing worse than Trae this year. That's not good at all. I talk about JC's offensive impact and he is a -1.0. That's barely worse. He used to defend well in space, now, he's bad at it. He doesn't hedge well anymore. He doesn't like to cut off space anymore. He just wants to get back and get f***ing rebounds which makes idiots happy but pisses me off. 

Clint is killing us and his anti-gravity makes it hell to find a PF to play next to him. JC and JJ are rangy and can play with many 5s but Clint anti-gravity ass makes it so damn tough. It's almost like, it's better to just put a 3 at 4 is the best case for Clint's offense. 

I used to be Clint's biggest defender but we can do way better than Clint. He's still a good player but he's not the impact player he was when we got him. He's just not the athlete that he used to be. If I was a team like the Knicks. I would try to get him. He's still way better than someone like Mitchell Robinson and if they start Brunson/Grimes/Hart/Randle. They would have enough spacing for Capela and Brunson is really good at using PnRs so Capela can still be very effective with them. That would probably turn them into contenders. 

[NBASupes]

I don't think people understood how valuable Kevin was to us last year.

Kevin wasn't that productive offensively but his impact was +3.5. Kevin was 3rd to Clint at 3.9 and Trae at 3.6 for impact on offense last year. He was critical and part of our big 3 offense. This year, the spacing issues knocked Trae heavily. Seems like Hunter was massively better this year but a lot of that has to do with health for Hunter. Murray went from a +2.1 in SA to a -0.1 so let's say he and Trae got massively knocked by spacing issues. JC went down .2 points from -0.8 to -1.0 which isn't major at all. 

Right now, Capela is the most valuable offensive player and he's Mr. Anti-Gravity. You can't win that way, I have been screaming about this for YEARS! Kevin's loss hurt Trae more than anyone else. 3.6 to 2.1 is a +1.5 difference. This is what's killing Trae and his perception the most. 

The biggest advantage to Clint in PnRs to JC who's an elite movement guy or OO who's an elite finisher is that Clint doesn't get knocked off the path with heavy contract and can get in position to at least draw fouls from the roll. JC gets easily bumped off the path which is why a lot of his PnRs die. OO doesn't handle contact well on the move even though he is elite at handling it on the defensive end. He's the anti-Amar'e S. Amar'e can dish it but can't take it. That's why neither of them are ever going to be elite PnR threats or even very good ones. They are just too limited. Also, his size and strength of Clint are really good for a big and he's explosive with his body. Not just athleticism in the air. 

Edited February 26, 2023 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

Coaching! And as I said since the start of the season, having Collins on offense standing at the 3pt line like he's Davis Bertans is not the best use of his offensive skillset.

 

 

 

 

 

[Spud2nique]

24 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Bertans

Funny I just mentioned him a few days ago. Isn’t that cute Burd? We bof on his nuts …

 

My bad 

[NBASupes]

23 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Coaching! And as I said since the start of the season, having Collins on offense standing at the 3pt line like he's Davis Bertans is not the best use of his offensive skillset.

 

 

 

 

 

How can you use him better with the spacing issues we got due to Murray's arrival?

I agree, having him sit in the corner isn't a good thing for sure and Bertans is an elite movement 4 but he operates out of the 3 point line. But as with Bertans and JC, you don't want either just hanging at the 3pt line as neither are good contested 3pt shooters and JC even worse is also bad at open 3pt shots that aren't in rhythm.

[NBASupes]

41-41

Same record % against the east and the west. 

+24 which could be JJ number next year who's currently #1.

If things go well in the lottery odds, we would be 11 which is Trae number. 

Get 1st overall and Wemby gets #1. 

Wemby is the face of the franchise with Trae. 

[Gray Mule]

No such thing as prevent defense in the NBA?

I don't understand.  To me, this involves the delaying offense.  The Hawks trying to play 22 seconds of offense by keeping the ball, therefore preventing our opponent from getting the ball and scoring.  With 2 seconds left, they then heave up a desperation shot with a prayer that either it goes in or the Hawks grab the rebound.

This is not offense.  Therefore it must be prevent defense.  Offense is trying to score, not freeze the ball.  

When the Hawks do this, ask yourself, do we have our best offensive players on the floor or do we have our best defensive players out there?