Simple Question: Will the Hawks Start the season OVER OR UNDER the Luxury Tax?

[JayBirdHawk]

Still under!

 

NBA free agency: Way-too-early look at 2024 landscape for every team

Atlanta Hawks

Unfortunately, shipping out John Collins was not nearly enough to get the Hawks out of their salary predicament beyond this season even with Dejounte Murray signing a reasonable extension that kicks in for the 2024-25 campaign. They are over the cap and roughly $20 million below the tax with nothing for pending restricted free agents Onyeka Okongwu and Saddiq Bey, so expect Hawks GM Landry Fields to have to offload at least one more big-ticket player over the next year-plus unless success this season makes ownership more willing to pay the tax.

(Always the same lie to keep hope, we're not paying the tax, smh)

https://theathletic.com/4775728/2023/08/28/nba-free-agency-2024-outlook/?source=nbatw

[Final_quest]

Remember the years the Knicks finally understood they couldn't keep signing and paying Allstar wannabees like they were the best players in the league?  They went and cleared cap to make a run at guys like Durant.  It failed, but it was still the right thing to do vs continuing to overpay for guys who had no business signing big contracts.

By their actions this off season I feel like they cut Collins to make a run at players like KAT and Siakam.  All of the media reporting and "insider" info indicates that is true.  We even had insiders saying directly that ownership would pay the tax.  I can't reconcile that evidence while also understanding that actually being below the tax line strongly reinforces the idea that "Ressler won't pay the tax". 

It's clear that any action, statement, or report will not be enough for the fans who are focused on seeing us pay a luxury tax.  Only actually paying the tax will suffice.  I'm just saying be careful what you wish for and we could easily be like the Knicks and accomplish that "goal".

[TheNorthCydeRises]

48 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Remember the years the Knicks finally understood they couldn't keep signing and paying Allstar wannabees like they were the best players in the league?  They went and cleared cap to make a run at guys like Durant.  It failed, but it was still the right thing to do vs continuing to overpay for guys who had no business signing big contracts.

By their actions this off season I feel like they cut Collins to make a run at players like KAT and Siakam.  All of the media reporting and "insider" info indicates that is true.  We even had insiders saying directly that ownership would pay the tax.  I can't reconcile that evidence while also understanding that actually being below the tax line strongly reinforces the idea that "Ressler won't pay the tax". 

It's clear that any action, statement, or report will not be enough for the fans who are focused on seeing us pay a luxury tax.  Only actually paying the tax will suffice.  I'm just saying be careful what you wish for and we could easily be like the Knicks and accomplish that "goal".

 

The Knicks were never an over the top Luxury Tax team, if memory serves me correctly.  If anything, the Knicks didn't do enough to bring in top level talent.  Either that, or the top level talent never wanted to play with the Knicks.  They traded for Amare ( which actually worked under 1 season with Woody as the coach ). Traded for Bargnani.  Traded for Tyson Chandler. Traded for Derrick Rose.  The crazy thing is that all of those guys were gone within 2 seasons.

Our situation is different.  We have a young top 20 level player that may have not reached his prime yet.  We have another young top 50 player that hasn't reached his prime yet.  We are a top 30 impact player away from becoming really really good.

A team that goes into the Luxury Tax has not only signed a high level player via free agency or traded for a high level player, they've also retained a few of their own young guys that they value very highly, and paid them as such.

The truth about this front office / ownership actually comes next summer, when Okongwu and Bey are up.  They could lock both of them up before the season starts. Or they can wait until the off-season and let them hit free agency.  Hawks can, and probably will match anything Okongwu receives. And they probably have a set number they would want to give Bey.  But if the Hawks prove to be a good team that makes a deep run in the playoffs, the Hawks could match both Okongwu and Bey.

We're already committed to 145M in contracts in 2024 - 25 without Okongwu and Bey being signed.  So if the team is real good, and Ressler balks at paying both Okongwu and Bey, that's a clear indication that he has no intention of paying the tax.

 

 

[Gray Mule]

UNDER!

[macdaddy]

I'm not hell bent on paying the tax just for the sake of doing it but in the last two years we've lost Huerter, Collins, Wright, Gallo, Lou from our rotation and we hadn't added anyone until we acquired Bey.  So I"m ready to see some ownership commitment to winning now.  

[Final_quest]

3 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

The Knicks were never an over the top Luxury Tax team, if memory serves me correctly.  If anything, the Knicks didn't do enough to bring in top level talent.  Either that, or the top level talent never wanted to play with the Knicks.  They traded for Amare ( which actually worked under 1 season with Woody as the coach ). Traded for Bargnani.  Traded for Tyson Chandler. Traded for Derrick Rose.  The crazy thing is that all of those guys were gone within 2 seasons.

Our situation is different.  We have a young top 20 level player that may have not reached his prime yet.  We have another young top 50 player that hasn't reached his prime yet.  We are a top 30 impact player away from becoming really really good.

A team that goes into the Luxury Tax has not only signed a high level player via free agency or traded for a high level player, they've also retained a few of their own young guys that they value very highly, and paid them as such.

The truth about this front office / ownership actually comes next summer, when Okongwu and Bey are up.  They could lock both of them up before the season starts. Or they can wait until the off-season and let them hit free agency.  Hawks can, and probably will match anything Okongwu receives. And they probably have a set number they would want to give Bey.  But if the Hawks prove to be a good team that makes a deep run in the playoffs, the Hawks could match both Okongwu and Bey.

We're already committed to 145M in contracts in 2024 - 25 without Okongwu and Bey being signed.  So if the team is real good, and Ressler balks at paying both Okongwu and Bey, that's a clear indication that he has no intention of paying the tax.

 

 

I think you are remembering wrong about the Knicks.

A couple snippets from a quick Google search:

The Knicks were losing money as recently as 2007 due to a bloated payroll
 

With their title chances closing quickly, the Knicks once again rolled the dice this past summer, trading Steve Novak, Marcus Camby and three draft draft picks to the Toronto Raptors in exchange for former number one overall pick Andrea Bargnani.

In so doing, the Knicks further hamstrung themselves in the short term—they have over $142 million committed just to Anthony, Stoudemire, Chandler and Bargnani alone over the next two years—while assuring they’ll have most of the deck cleared for the summer of 2015, when a slew of big-time free agents hit the market.

That might sound like a logical approach on its face. But Knicks fans are only too familiar with the harsh reality of James Dolan’s meddlesome ways, which have long been more about reloading than rebuilding. The concern is that the team will end up exactly where it was in 2010: Whiffing on LeBron James, Kyrie Irving or Kevin Love, and settling for—and likely overpaying—a flawed, second-tier superstar instead.

 

 

[Final_quest]

9 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I'm not hell bent on paying the tax just for the sake of doing it but in the last two years we've lost Huerter, Collins, Wright, Gallo, Lou from our rotation and we hadn't added anyone until we acquired Bey.  So I"m ready to see some ownership commitment to winning now.  

They are paying for mistakes from signing or extending most of the roster to big contracts, predominantly Hunter and Collins were overpaid.  More bad cap management in the present isn't going to fix past bad cap management. 

One of Collins or Hunter should have been traded when they had value, but guess what people would have said?  The Hawks were too cheap to sign them to a contract.  

Most of my attention is focused on adding a third allstar.  I'm much less concerned if the present Hawks team signs a bunch of mediocre players to get over the luxury tax.  

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

They are paying for mistakes from signing or extending most of the roster to big contracts, predominantly Hunter and Collins were overpaid.  More bad cap management in the present isn't going to fix past bad cap management. 

One of Collins or Hunter should have been traded when they had value, but guess what people would have said?  The Hawks were too cheap to sign them to a contract.  

Most of my attention is focused on adding a third allstar.  I'm much less concerned if the present Hawks team signs a bunch of mediocre players to get over the luxury tax.  

I think we're basically all saying the same thing.  You can make mistakes with contracts.  Every team does.  But you can't make mistakes AND be cheap.  That's what we're seeing and it will impact winning in a big way unless you get lucky with guys on rookie deals.  

[JayBirdHawk]

 

[macdaddy]

Tony still sleeping soundly

[JayBirdHawk]

[JayBirdHawk]

5  more days!

[JayBirdHawk]

I can safely make my last post and bring this thread to a close.

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I can safely make my last post and bring this thread to a close.

@AHF I’m yours… uhhh my avatar! It’s time to pay the piper.  

[AHF]

On 10/23/2023 at 9:58 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

I can safely make my last post and bring this thread to a close.

 

On 10/24/2023 at 12:53 AM, Spud2nique said:

@AHF I’m yours… uhhh my avatar! It’s time to pay the piper.  

Unless I'm mistaken, we could still end up paying the tax, right?  We could (for example) trade for Siakam next week and take back less salary to push us in the tax right?  If so, I think the bet is still on because it wasn't about how we would start the season but whether we would ultimately pay it this season.

@JayBirdHawk

@Spud2nique

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

 

Unless I'm mistaken, we could still end up paying the tax, right?  We could (for example) trade for Siakam next week and take back less salary to push us in the tax right?  If so, I think the bet is still on because it wasn't about how we would start the season but whether we would ultimately pay it this season.

@JayBirdHawk

@Spud2nique

I said 'START' the season but I'm not sure what you and Spud's bet was.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I said 'START' the season but I'm not sure what you and Spud's bet was.

Absolutely that was this thread.  I'm just saying our bet was whether the Hawks would pay the tax this year and @'d you to confirm that we could still do so.  I think Spud is off the hook for now and could still win this one!

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

Absolutely that was this thread.  I'm just saying our bet was whether the Hawks would pay the tax this year and @'d you to confirm that we could still do so.  I think Spud is off the hook for now and could still win this one!

Even better!  

[Final_quest]

On 8/29/2023 at 12:07 PM, macdaddy said:

I think we're basically all saying the same thing.  You can make mistakes with contracts.  Every team does.  But you can't make mistakes AND be cheap.  That's what we're seeing and it will impact winning in a big way unless you get lucky with guys on rookie deals.  

Two months later... I think there are advantages to roster flexibility when you have less money committed short and long term.  Just like when teams, OKC for example, stay well below the tax so that allows them to make more deals to improve the future while stock piling and developing young talent.  

It's a lot easier to think about trading for a player like KAT at $50M/year if you are positioned to sustain a long term high salary commitment.  I don't see where there is a win in going into the luxury tax if it limits your ability to make trades and resign players.

I do see actual merit in spending more IF you are a true contender after you added someone like KAT or Siakam to the roster.  It's actually a cap management failure to spend well above the tax and be far out of reach of contender status. 

We've made a lot of prudent moves that will allow us to strike towards upward mobility.  I do understand why people don't trust that is what Ressler is doing, but our "insiders" stated they were actually talking about going over the tax IF we brought in someone like KAT.  To me that is the correct position.  

I guess if I heard more cap management theory from those banging the drum to pay the tax I could come around.  Who is an MLE player we should have signed so that we can bench who?  

[JayBirdHawk]

It's not to early to play the game sweeping Hawks Nation for next season:

Under the Tax or Over the Tax?