LarsV8 Posted October 18, 2023 Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 Yea, as I noted, not really a toxic contract, was easy to swap for basically nothing. Ended up actually saving a decent amount of space this year. Get a peak at Earl, a trade exception and replacement expiring contract for future trades in VO. I speculated they would dangle the Brooklyn first with to try and get back a solid rotation guy, but we are in the time of year where everyone loves their team, so harder to find trades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted October 18, 2023 Moderators Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 9 hours ago, LarsV8 said: Yea, as I noted, not really a toxic contract, was easy to swap for basically nothing. Ended up actually saving a decent amount of space this year. Get a peak at Earl, a trade exception and replacement expiring contract for future trades in VO. I speculated they would dangle the Brooklyn first with to try and get back a solid rotation guy, but we are in the time of year where everyone loves their team, so harder to find trades. Absolutely a toxic contract. Why do you think Houston gave up 2 second round picks and he was immediately cut? They paid a team to take him so they could unload his salary. What do you think OKC is getting out of it if not payment for taking a toxic contract? I will agree that it wasn't a huge contract so the price wasn't through the roof but pretending like a team who just gave you their junk contracts to match and then cut the guy they traded for immediately wasn't toxic is really weird. A toxic contract is one with negative value. Porter Jr. clearly had negative value. OKC wouldn't immediately cut a guy if he wasn't negative value. They did it only for the picks. The Hawks have done more than enough of these trades taking on toxic contracts that they either cut or let rot on the bench so we get it. The Hawks pick up a first or second and get that reward for eating that toxic contract. For example, we got a very similar return to what OKC just got when we traded for Camelo Anthony (and we gave up Dennis Schroder who was at least a solid player). We got a protected pick that was expected to convert into the same two second round picks that Houston just gave up to dump Porter Jr. Given that Carmelo's salary was considerably higher the upside of possibly getting a first round pick also makes sense. Two second round picks to clear that salary for Houston feels about right given the % of cap you eat this season and that there isn't much overhang after you eat his salary this season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarsV8 Posted October 18, 2023 Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 You have been implying there was a premium to be paid because the contract was toxic in nature. KPJ is absolutely a toxic player, but the contract is just essentially just dead money for the year, not inherently toxic. There was no "assuming of the liability and negative publicity" for OKC that you cited. This just ended up being a small cap deal. I would agree it was toxic if it were long term, as you originally believed, but on an expiring deal, no, I don't think that is accurate. The assets given were just to bridge the gap between cap value of two aggregated contracts. (15.8m for KPJ vs 11.4m for VO/JER). Houston pays for trade exception, to save some cash, and preserve the trade filler they might need for future deals. This is essentially OKC just buying two mediocre seconds for 5m, which is about the going rate for 2nds. That would be like saying that Garuba and TyTy were toxic contracts when we traded them to Atlanta with 2nds. They weren't, it was just a cap deal. Or if we were to say Victor Olidipo's deal is toxic, which we got back in trade. I don't think you would find agreement in those characterizations. Anyway, its just semantics, doesn't really matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg01 Posted October 18, 2023 Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 This is such a weird thing to argue about. Who cares. Let the dude fade off into the Bolivian (as Mike Tyson would say). 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted October 18, 2023 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted October 18, 2023 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 James Harden missing practice today 'only the beginning' of what he's planning to do to force trade NBA on ESPN: @ramonashelburne on James Harden not showing up to practice: This is an escalation of tactics, this is ‘I’m not happy’ and someone close to him told me ‘This is only the beginning of what he plans to do here.’ – via Twitter ESPNNBA Top Rumors, Trade, James Harden, Philadelphia 76ers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted October 18, 2023 Moderators Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 5 hours ago, LarsV8 said: You have been implying there was a premium to be paid because the contract was toxic in nature. KPJ is absolutely a toxic player, but the contract is just essentially just dead money for the year, not inherently toxic. There was no "assuming of the liability and negative publicity" for OKC that you cited. This just ended up being a small cap deal. I would agree it was toxic if it were long term, as you originally believed, but on an expiring deal, no, I don't think that is accurate. The assets given were just to bridge the gap between cap value of two aggregated contracts. (15.8m for KPJ vs 11.4m for VO/JER). Houston pays for trade exception, to save some cash, and preserve the trade filler they might need for future deals. This is essentially OKC just buying two mediocre seconds for 5m, which is about the going rate for 2nds. That would be like saying that Garuba and TyTy were toxic contracts when we traded them to Atlanta with 2nds. They weren't, it was just a cap deal. Or if we were to say Victor Olidipo's deal is toxic, which we got back in trade. I don't think you would find agreement in those characterizations. Anyway, its just semantics, doesn't really matter. Any contract that has negative value is toxic. Just a matter of how toxic. A certainly agree that if his contract had been fully guaranteed like I thought from the BR page that it would have cost a lot more. But Houston absolutely paid a price of two second round picks because of that toxicity. Compare that to the Obi Toppin trade where two second round picks got you the former lottery pick. When I discussed the negative publicity, etc. it was when you were claiming that Houston would get real value back for him because other teams would want Porter Jr. because he had value. Porter Jr. had no value other than negative value. That is why he was cut. Houston got back filler salary instead of real players because Porter Jr. and his contract were toxic. You are right to view the deal as financial in nature because OKC is not going to associate themselves for a second with Porter. I do agree with your suggestion that Oladipo's contract is toxic as well. The way to figure out whether something is toxic is pretty simple: Would another team add that player and contract to their roster if they could do so for free? If the answer is "yes" then the player has some value on their current contract. If the answer is "no" then the player/contract is toxic and some form of compensation is needed to get them to be taken. Toxic players can range from "we don't need to get rid of him but if we could cut him for free we would" to "I will pay you to take this player off my hands." KPJr fell in the "I will pay you to take this player off my hands" category. He just didn't cost an arm and a leg due to his contract. This isn't a particular critique of Houston. Atlanta has had their share of toxic players and they don't have to have bad attitudes or anything to represent toxic values. For example, Atlanta overpaid Kent Bazemore a number of years ago and were only able to unload him for a comparably toxic contract in Evan Turner. No team in the NBA would have added either of those players on those contracts without compensation (in this case the compensation was unloading their own toxic player). KPJr gets the bonus level of toxicity that I don't think any team would sign him today on a minimum, unguaranteed contract because his toxicity is more than simply being paid more than he is worth but includes all the PR side of things you reference. It isn't simply him being overpaid as with many toxic contracts. It is that he is currently untouchable for any team so if you are trading for him it is only trading for him to cut him for which you will need to be paid as OKC was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted October 19, 2023 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 Will The Prunty get promoted? It is going to be interested to see how things play out with the Bucks. They got Dame sure, but they also have a rookie head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted October 19, 2023 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 Damn! Patrick Beverley on Orlando Magic: If you have two Top 50 players, why are you so bad? NBA Central: Patrick Beverley calls out Paolo and Franz “If you’ve got two people out of the top 100 on your team, Orlando Magic, you should be winning games. If you have two people who are in the top 50, you should make the f***ing playoffs. Why are you so bad?” pic.twitter.com/ihYgtjgHVl – via Twitter TheNBACentral 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg01 Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 12 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said: Damn! Patrick Beverley on Orlando Magic: If you have two Top 50 players, why are you so bad? NBA Central: Patrick Beverley calls out Paolo and Franz “If you’ve got two people out of the top 100 on your team, Orlando Magic, you should be winning games. If you have two people who are in the top 50, you should make the f***ing playoffs. Why are you so bad?” pic.twitter.com/ihYgtjgHVl – via Twitter TheNBACentral No lies detected. The collective nba media needs to reevaluate how they evaluate(sic) players. Need to make a wider gap between 'good' and 'potential to be good'. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted October 20, 2023 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 What now? WOW!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg01 Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 7 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said: What now? WOW!! "ISS Da FERST TIME EVER BEEN DONE INNA GAME!!"- media 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted October 22, 2023 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 I don't get this at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted October 22, 2023 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 Say what? ...is he questioning Luka's leadership? ......how soon before he asks for a trade to LAL again? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted October 23, 2023 Moderators Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 On 10/22/2023 at 11:41 AM, JayBirdHawk said: Say what? ...is he questioning Luka's leadership? ......how soon before he asks for a trade to LAL again? What leading has Kyrie ever done? LMAO. He ran from leadership in Boston after flopping there and has chased roles as the #2 or #3 player on teams ever since. Same as he is doing today. Last year, he "led" Dallas from being in the playoffs to missing the playoffs completely. I guess that qualifies as leading in a "different way." 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warcore Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 On 10/19/2023 at 6:42 PM, JayBirdHawk said: What now? WOW!! Trae gets crucified for this. Wemby gets worshipped. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted October 23, 2023 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted October 23, 2023 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted October 23, 2023 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 Woah!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phunkabilly Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 9 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said: Woah!!! Holy smokes! Is this the first time the $60M/year mark has been eclipsed? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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