2023-24 NBA Free Agency 06/30 at 6PM

[theheroatl]

Wow did y’all happen to notice the raptors media day.. what a circus.. couldn’t help notice how off putting Siakam was to the media. Plus the Masai comment about him was shocking from a GM. It’s almost as if they were disappointed they couldn’t get their golden haul for him.

 

 

[kg01]

1 hour ago, akay said:

Paying Devin nearly 30 million a year doesn't sound like the best idea, kind of seems like a massive overpay unless I'm missing something.

This dude and DJM are making almost the same money? 

I mean, he'd good but not that good.  Seems like there's about 2 or 3 rookies a year that are as good as he's projected to be.  Whatevs tho, I guess.  Now somebody will tell us that's the 'going rate'..  

[JayBirdHawk]

48 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I mean, he'd good but not that good.  Seems like there's about 2 or 3 rookies a year that are as good as he's projected to be.  Whatevs tho, I guess.  Now somebody will tell us that's the 'going rate'..  

Let me be the one to say it 'Going Rate'

Spoiler

....Until it isn't  

 

[JeffS17]

52 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I mean, he'd good but not that good.  Seems like there's about 2 or 3 rookies a year that are as good as he's projected to be.  Whatevs tho, I guess.  Now somebody will tell us that's the 'going rate'..  

It's only like 17% of the soft cap aka not that much money.  14% of the luxury floor.  So you could have a 7 man rotation of guys making about this much money and not have to pay the luxury tax.  Seems like a fair deal, but it is hard to adjust to the inflating salary cap

[AHF]

On 9/16/2023 at 3:24 PM, LarsV8 said:

There is no 16.8m next season. 

Right now Houston's options are

1.) Waive him, and eat his 1m guaranteed next season. 

2.) Trade his expiring contract + asset for another impactful player to a team looking to clean up their books. The other team would simply waive him and he would never report. 

Again Houston doesn't need anyone to "eat" anything. 

 

On 9/18/2023 at 10:01 AM, AHF said:

Correct me if I am wrong.  There is $15.8M this season and $1M next season.  Add those together and that is $16.8M in eaten salary.  If you trade Porter's contract, it is the other team eating $16.8M and of course Houston isn't eating anything.  But that is why the other team is going to expect something more valuable than "please let us eat Porter's contract for you."

But that also probably puts us a bit closer together.  Because another word for a "team looking to clean up their books" is "a team with a negative value, toxic contract on their books that they can't unload for anything they actually want."  That scenario works in my mind because you are taking someone with negative value and a short contract (Porter) and dealing them for someone with negative value and a long contract (the player the other team wants to dump).  

If the other team's "impactful player" was good enough to draw actual interest, they would have already dealt them in a deal that landed them on a team with space (either directly ala the Hawks taking on Kyle Korver or indirectly where a third team facilitates the deal).  If the player's value is negative (i.e., you have to attach assets to get someone to take him), then it makes sense.  I'm just a bit skeptical of how impactful such a player will be at this time of year when teams have already had a ton of opportunity to clean up their books over the summer.

Just to follow-up on this, Houston has now publicly announced Porter is no longer with the team.  Houston's GM stated:

Quote

"The allegations against him are deeply troubling," Stone said. "Going back a few weeks, as soon as I heard the allegations, I informed his representatives that he could not be part of the Houston Rockets. He has not been with the team or around it since that time."

So, again, I don't think Houston has the slightest bit of leverage here to get real value back for him when they are calling his situation "deeply troubling" and conceding that he is done with the team.  I think the idea of getting a productive player for him who isn't a toxic contract is a fantasy.  The Rockets are going to either need to eat his contract this year and next (with next year being pretty palatable) or could use him a toxic contract in a larger deal (either paying someone to take him or using him as a way to allow another team to reduce their payroll for next year).  But any team that takes him is also going inherit a lot of ugly PR.

[kg01]

38 minutes ago, AHF said:

 

Just to follow-up on this, Houston has now publicly announced Porter is no longer with the team.  Houston's GM stated:

So, again, I don't think Houston has the slightest bit of leverage here to get real value back for him when they are calling his situation "deeply troubling" and conceding that he is done with the team.  I think the idea of getting a productive player for him who isn't a toxic contract is a fantasy.  The Rockets are going to either need to eat his contract this year and next (with next year being pretty palatable) or could use him a toxic contract in a larger deal (either paying someone to take him or using him as a way to allow another team to reduce their payroll for next year).  But any team that takes him is also going inherit a lot of ugly PR.

I find it weird anyone would think this wasn't a situation where HOU would be eating his deal. 

[LarsV8]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

I find it weird anyone would think this wasn't a situation where HOU would be eating his deal. 

 

The post was in response to the suggestion that there was 16m in salary that needed to be eaten NEXT year. 

 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, LarsV8 said:

 

The post was in response to the suggestion that there was 16m in salary that needed to be eaten NEXT year. 

 

That was never said.  What was said that a team trading for him would have to eat $16.8M this season and next.  This season hasn't even started yet so if a team trades for him this summer and cuts him they are still eating $16.8M this season and next ($15.8M this year and $1M next year).  You have to pay for someone to flush $16.8M down the drain either by giving up value or taking on their toxic contract so they save more than that in the future while giving up someone they didn't want to keep.

Here was the original post in our exchange:

On 9/15/2023 at 9:22 AM, AHF said:

So you think anyone wants him right now enough to give up valuable consideration for him?   I think that you may be overestimating the appetites of teams to take on that kind of risk.  The reason you need someone to eat him is to avoid the $16.8M this season and next.  If Houston doesn't value someone eating that, I think  your suggestion that they will just waive him makes sense. 

Not a big deal if I wasn't clear enough or you misread it.  The bigger discussion is whether Houston could get back non-toxic value for him or not.  I didn't and still don't think that is possible.  I don't think anyone trades for him right now to have him play for them under his current contract.

[JayBirdHawk]

Pull up a chair folks!!!

James Harden Has 'Zero Intentions Of Rejoining Sixers In Earnest'

OCT 4, 2023 12:15 PM

James Harden has "zero intentions of rejoining [the Philadelphia 76ers] in earnest," sources tell Sam Amick of The Athletic. 

Harden skipped media day in Philadelphia on Monday, but was en route to Fort Collins, Colorado to join the Sixers on Tuesday. 

Sources also tell The Athletic Harden "remains just as incensed as before at [Daryl] Morey and is still liable to disappear on the Sixers at any moment."

The Sixers remain adamant that they will not trade Harden if it diminishes their chances of competing in the playoffs this season.

SAM AMICK/THE ATHLETIC

[JayBirdHawk]

10 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Pull up a chair folks!!!

James Harden Has 'Zero Intentions Of Rejoining Sixers In Earnest'

OCT 4, 2023 12:15 PM

James Harden has "zero intentions of rejoining [the Philadelphia 76ers] in earnest," sources tell Sam Amick of The Athletic. 

Harden skipped media day in Philadelphia on Monday, but was en route to Fort Collins, Colorado to join the Sixers on Tuesday. 

Sources also tell The Athletic Harden "remains just as incensed as before at [Daryl] Morey and is still liable to disappear on the Sixers at any moment."

The Sixers remain adamant that they will not trade Harden if it diminishes their chances of competing in the playoffs this season.

SAM AMICK/THE ATHLETIC

Well, he practiced today...

Tim Bontemps: Nick Nurse says James Harden was in “just about everything” throughout practice. Said he, along with a few other guys, is still being ramped up, but that he looked good and liked what he saw.

 

– via Twitter TimBontemps

 Nick Nurse, James Harden, Philadelphia 76ers

 

 

Tim Bontemps: By the time the media was let into practice here at Colorado State, James Harden had exited the court.

 

– via Twitter TimBontemps

 James Harden, Philadelphia 76ers

[Sothron]

I'm fully expecting Harden to be in Houston Exit mode when he clearly was half assing his way on the court. 

[JayBirdHawk]

^Speaking of Houston:

Rockets lost interest in James Harden when he expressed desire to win another scoring title?

ClutchFans: Stephen A Smith says James Harden blew his chance with the #Rockets. “James Harden actually talked himself out of a max deal because he went in there talking about how he wanted to return to being that scoring champion and Ime Udoka and them were like ‘Nah, we ain’t trying to have that here. We’re building something a little bit different.’ Had he come in there and said the right things, they would have given him a max four-year deal. He talked himself out of his own max deal.”

 

– via Twitter clutchfans

 

 

 

 

@kg01...thoughts on this development? 

[capstone21]

Harden still thinks he is the dominant player from 5 years ago.  He needs to accept he is a second banana vet who can help a team win instead of just trying to get stats.  

[LarsV8]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

That was never said.  What was said that a team trading for him would have to eat $16.8M this season and next.  This season hasn't even started yet so if a team trades for him this summer and cuts him they are still eating $16.8M this season and next ($15.8M this year and $1M next year).  You have to pay for someone to flush $16.8M down the drain either by giving up value or taking on their toxic contract so they save more than that in the future while giving up someone they didn't want to keep.

Here was the original post in our exchange:

Not a big deal if I wasn't clear enough or you misread it.  The bigger discussion is whether Houston could get back non-toxic value for him or not.  I didn't and still don't think that is possible.  I don't think anyone trades for him right now to have him play for them under his current contract.

I interpret your bolded as 16.8m for both years. 

[AHF]

27 minutes ago, LarsV8 said:

I interpret your bolded as 16.8m for both years. 

Considering his salary this year is $15.8M and next year is a $1M buyout (or $15.8M is a team isn't going to buy him out) that wouldn't any sense but I can see how it could be read like that.  (Would be like someone paid $10M per year and saying he gets $20M this year and next and reading that as saying he gets $40M instead of $20M).

Like I said, either way the fundamental issue is no one is giving value for him and Houston is going to have to pay someone one way or another to eat his contract if they expect to move him.  (That paying could be absorbing a toxic contract that the other team wants to unload.)  Given Houston's recent comments, I think they have come around to the idea that there is no deal for him and they are going to just waive him whenever it is most advantageous for them.

[kg01]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

^Speaking of Houston:

Rockets lost interest in James Harden when he expressed desire to win another scoring title?

ClutchFans: Stephen A Smith says James Harden blew his chance with the #Rockets. “James Harden actually talked himself out of a max deal because he went in there talking about how he wanted to return to being that scoring champion and Ime Udoka and them were like ‘Nah, we ain’t trying to have that here. We’re building something a little bit different.’ Had he come in there and said the right things, they would have given him a max four-year deal. He talked himself out of his own max deal.”

 

– via Twitter clutchfans

 

 

 

 

@kg01...thoughts on this development? 

The outsiders blessed the site with this news weeks before it came out.  Then, when it came out, certain folks acted all brand new.  All I can do is smh.  Maybe I should be grateful since that's basically how the outsiders were born. 

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, kg01 said:

The outsiders blessed the site with this news weeks before it came out.  Then, when it came out, certain folks acted all brand new.  All I can do is smh.  Maybe I should be grateful since that's basically how the outsiders were born. 

I think everyone called this one, lol.  Houston dodged a bullet.

[JayBirdHawk]

23 hours ago, LarsV8 said:

I interpret your bolded as 16.8m for both years. 

Why did Houston sign Porter to that extension? Reading this article - just wow!

 

https://www.clutchfans.net/12732/kevin-porter-jr-rockets-front-office/

 

[LarsV8]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Why did Houston sign Porter to that extension? Reading this article - just wow!

 

https://www.clutchfans.net/12732/kevin-porter-jr-rockets-front-office/

 

 

The extension was actually quite team friendly. Without the domestic violence, the contract itself would be an asset.

My guess is that they were taking a risk and offering the guy a carrot to try and get him right, because he does actually have talent. 

The domestic violence thing, of course, throws a wrench in all that. 

[JayBirdHawk]

12 minutes ago, LarsV8 said:

 

The extension was actually quite team friendly. Without the domestic violence, the contract itself would be an asset.

My guess is that they were taking a risk and offering the guy a carrot to try and get him right, because he does actually have talent. 

The domestic violence thing, of course, throws a wrench in all that. 

Aside from the DV.....seems like a headache with coaches and locker room though.