Referendum on Hunter....

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[Peoriabird]

Its good to see some posters actually starting to miss Dre after initially not seeing his value to the team.  Some still want to deflect blame for the team's recent misfortunes on other constant variables like coaching, other players, or ownership etc.  Even some of the most ardent Dre haters are changing their narratives from him being a non impactful player with bad metric who should be benched in favor of players like Bey and Bogi to he is injury prone and can't help the team while injured.  There were poster literally criticizing Dre after the Miami playoff series 2 years ago when he led the team in scoring/scoring efficiency and was our best perimeter defender against Jimmy Butler.  They would post metric after metric to support their claims but now its his injury history.  Gotta love the spin doctors!

[Diesel]

7 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Its good to see some posters actually starting to miss Dre after initially not seeing his value to the team.  Some still want to deflect blame for the team's recent misfortunes on other constant variables like coaching, other players, or ownership etc.  Even some of the most ardent Dre haters are changing their narratives from him being a non impactful player with bad metric who should be benched in favor of players like Bey and Bogi to he is injury prone and can't help the team while injured.  There were poster literally criticizing Dre after the Miami playoff series 2 years ago when he led the team in scoring/scoring efficiency and was our best perimeter defender against Jimmy Butler.  They would post metric after metric to support their claims but now its his injury history.  Gotta love the spin doctors!

[] Yeah..we miss Dre's contribution.  He was a 4th or 3rd option on the floor.. so sure we miss him.  He may have been our best one on one defender.   However, was he worth us not allowing him to test the market? IN your hurry to pat yourself on the back.. you miss the one big fact...

DRE is OUT.....  AGAIN..

18 GAMES OUT.

We're paying this dude 20 million plus per and he is never here.   When we need him...  He's on the bench in street clothes Again.  [For anyone how is this a] reason to celebrate??  [It seems like some] believe this shows his value.  I would rather have a lesser player who will be here for all 82 games than to continually throw money and put my trust in Dre.   And that's why we can't trade him.  Other teams feel that way about Dre too.   They may see his value when he does play.. but they would rather hold on to whatever assets they have rather than bring Dre in with the hopes that he can play anything close to 82 games.

@Peoriabird  we've been here before...  Let me remind you:

  

Since I couldn't find a picture of Brandon in a Hawks Jersey.. I said, I can show you the 11.1 Million dollars we paid him while he stayed laid up on the IL.  You wonder what happened to that 2003-2004 team...

 

28 and 54.

[] Dre's greatness means nothing if this is his posture.

  

 

[NBASupes]

13 minutes ago, Diesel said:

You and Supes have got to stop with this Dre Love.  Yeah..we miss Dre's contribution.  He was a 4th or 3rd option on the floor.. so sure we miss him.  He may have been our best one on one defender.   However, was he worth us not allowing him to test the market? IN your hurry to pat yourself on the back.. you miss the one big fact...

DRE is OUT.....  AGAIN..

18 GAMES OUT.

We're paying this dude 20 million plus per and he is never here.   When we need him...  He's on the bench in street clothes Again.  And for you.. this is reason to celebrate??  Your chest is stuck out because you believe this shows his value.   Let me hurt your heart.. I would rather have a lesser player who will be here for all 82 games than to continually throw money and put my trust in Dre.   And that's why we can't trade him.  Other teams feel that way about Dre too.   They may see his value when he does play.. but they would rather hold on to whatever assets they have rather than bring Dre in with the hopes that he can play anything close to 82 games.

@Peoriabird  we've been here before...  Let me remind you:

  

Since I couldn't find a picture of Brandon in a Hawks Jersey.. I said, I can show you the 11.1 Million dollars we paid him while he stayed laid up on the IL.  You wonder what happened to that 2003-2004 team...

 

28 and 54.

So keep on patting yourself on the back... and congratulating yourself... but Dre's greatness means nothing if this is his posture.

  

 

Big wings are generally the most injured bunch with true centers. Especially the ones who are truly two way like Dre. It's a part of what comes with them is they tend to be injured a lot more than say, PGs or SGs. They are usually 6'7+ 220+ defending 4 positions. It's hard to do what they do and still impact offense and play big minutes. They stress on their body is higher than others because of the versatility which is why they are so valued in the modern game. 

 

Why should I stop having common sense, Diesel? Dre love is because he's probably the most valuable player on this squad because it's impossible to find two way big wings even if you don't think Dre is all that good. The fact that he is a big wing is important. Theo Ratliff is a decent example. In his era, you had to have a Theo. The game was a big man's game. In today's NBA, Theo couldn't even get on the court. 

Dre would be a lot less useful in the 2000s where it's all iso and Mano e Mano ball. In the modern era, he's critical 

Edited January 27 by NBASupes

[deester11]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

[post removed]

Lmao.  People can not like Hunter and still see he has SOME value. 

[Peoriabird]

On 10/25/2023 at 10:55 AM, Diesel said:

My thoughts is that the first 6 games are so will be a referendum on Hunter in Quin's system.   I believe that this is only about Hunter because we haven't paid Bey and he and Bey occupy the same atmosphere.   Also , a lot of people feel like we jumped too early extending Hunter.  IMO Hunter has been able to live off of his draft position and how much we dumped into him and not necessarily on what he has brought to the court.   He has potential but potential never suits up. 

These are our first 6 games...

By November, we should know who Hunter is in Quin's system. 

By then, Landry will be ready to make some hard choices. 

 

 

I don't see anything in your original post highlighting your concerns about Dre's health unless you thought he would be injured during the 1st 6 game. []

[Diesel]

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Why should I stop having common sense, Diesel? Dre love is because he's probably the most valuable player on this squad because it's impossible to find two way big wings even if you don't think Dre is all that good.

DRE is OUT.....  AGAIN..

18 GAMES OUT.

What good is having this very valuable piece if he can never play??  The one thing you need for a good team is players you can depend on.  We can't depend on Dre.  If this were Playstation or Xbox... then having Dre would be great.  However, this is the real world Supes.. and in the real world, we need Dre to do what he has been paid to do.. but too often.. Dre' can't go.   If you do attribute our losing streak to not having Dre... you shouldn't tout Dre's value.. you should tout the fact that he's not out there.   Tout the fact that he's letting his team down.

 

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, deester11 said:

Lmao.  People can not like Hunter and still see he has SOME value. []. 

[Some posters] tend to think he's overpaid. He wasn't at that time, we didn't have the 2nd apron which changed how teams saw player contract so at the time, he was paid what the industry saw him as, at the time. Why? He's a two way big wing who can score on all three levels. His only elite quality is his versatility. His defense or offense clearly isn't elite. His impact on games doesn't really show up unless you know what you are watching and you understand winning basketball which I strongly believe, De'Andre plays. 

This team has like two players who know how to play winning ball. Clint and Dre. Trae still stat padding. Murray's winning impact got crushed by moving him to SG. He's more of a stat padder too especially with how Quin uses him. He was a winning player with Nate. Nate used him to his strengths but exposed Trae viciously which is why he's gone. JJ still figuring it out. He's young and he studies and takes the game seriously. I don't know if he will become a winning player but it won't be due to a lack of effort or trying. OO seemed like a winning backup with Nate but his lack of fit in this modern scheme worries me a bit. Maybe if he had better defensive personnel, he would be a lot better but we don't have that to know. 

This team is in a tough place. When I told ya'll before Dre ever was hurt that we can't win without Dre, I got ire and laughter at me when I am way smarter about this game than most here, it made no sense, and it was seen as if I didn't know what I was talking about. I don't just say shit to say shit. 

[NBASupes]

Just now, Diesel said:

DRE is OUT.....  AGAIN..

18 GAMES OUT.

What good is having this very valuable piece if he can never play??  The one thing you need for a good team is players you can depend on.  We can't depend on Dre.  If this were Playstation or Xbox... then having Dre would be great.  However, this is the real world Supes.. and in the real world, we need Dre to do what he has been paid to do.. but too often.. Dre' can't go.   If you do attribute our losing streak to not having Dre... you shouldn't tout Dre's value.. you should tout the fact that he's not out there.   Tout the fact that he's letting his team down.

 

Go to all of these two way big wings and you will see similar injury histories. It's clear, you are refusing to do that because it doesn't play into your dislike narrative of Dre. You are the same person who begs for PG13 to Atlanta or Kawhi. Those two are more injured than Dre.

[Peoriabird]

On 10/27/2023 at 12:33 PM, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

As much as I rag on Hunter and his non-impact play, you need to give him more than 6 games.  Heck, we could easily be 4 - 2 or 1 - 5 after those 6 games, depending how this team shoots the ball.

Let's give the team time to get fully acclimated to Quin's system on both ends of the floor, before we make sweeping judgements one way or the other.

Now if a trade comes along that ships out Dre for a higher quality player, pull the trigger immediately. But as far as his role on the team currently, let this all play out.

At least give Dre and the others 10 games to carve out their roles.

This has been the sentiment not his health. Now all of a sudden it's about his health.  []

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

[Some posters] tend to think he's overpaid. He wasn't at that time, we didn't have the 2nd apron which changed how teams saw player contract so at the time, he was paid what the industry saw him as, at the time.

Being overpaid isn't about the apron.  It's about the fact that we should have made him test the market.   His injury history may have prohibited any other team from giving him the offer that we eventually gave him.  Speaking for myself, I believe our FO bidded against itself in handling Dre's contract.  Moreover if his value is right then he should be easy to move... but he's not. 

 

 

[deester11]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

[Some posters] tend to think he's overpaid. He wasn't at that time, we didn't have the 2nd apron which changed how teams saw player contract so at the time, he was paid what the industry saw him as, at the time. Why? He's a two way big wing who can score on all three levels. His only elite quality is his versatility. His defense or offense clearly isn't elite. His impact on games doesn't really show up unless you know what you are watching and you understand winning basketball which I strongly believe, De'Andre plays. 

This team has like two players who know how to play winning ball. Clint and Dre. Trae still stat padding. Murray's winning impact got crushed by moving him to SG. He's more of a stat padder too especially with how Quin uses him. He was a winning player with Nate. Nate used him to his strengths but exposed Trae viciously which is why he's gone. JJ still figuring it out. He's young and he studies and takes the game seriously. I don't know if he will become a winning player but it won't be due to a lack of effort or trying. OO seemed like a winning backup with Nate but his lack of fit in this modern scheme worries me a bit. Maybe if he had better defensive personnel, he would be a lot better but we don't have that to know. 

This team is in a tough place. When I told ya'll before Dre ever was hurt that we can't win without Dre, I got ire and laughter at me when I am way smarter about this game than most here, it made no sense, and it was seen as if I didn't know what I was talking about.  I don't just say shit to say shit. 

[M]any of us are basketball lifers.  I played, coached all sports my entire life.  Up until recently I posted here and there.  But to see others talk down to other people about their knowledge of ball is...inherently stupid.  You can disagree with what player is this or that, but at the end of the day I'm not, you're not and no one else on this board has control over Hawk decisions.  

If it were MY decision, the construction of this team would look different. I'm admittedly a Hunter detractor..hater..whatever you call it. I see value in his being a big wing. Defense. Ok if that's your argument. But it's 5 years in and I'm hearing the same things about him.  He doesn't do it for me. Sorry if that's not KNOWING basketball.  He's not the issue though. I'll say that.

[NBASupes]

Just now, Diesel said:

Being overpaid isn't about the apron.  It's about the fact that we should have made him test the market.   His injury history may have prohibited any other team from giving him the offer that we eventually gave him.  Speaking for myself, I believe our FO bidded against itself in handling Dre's contract.  Moreover if his value is right then he should be easy to move... but he's not. 

 

 

Why do that and run the risk of someone overbidding? We already knew what his market was as his agent was seeking what would be his market. His injury history doesn't matter as much due to his position and need for his position. Big wings are the new true centers of the modern NBA. 

I 100% disagree. The only time we did that was with JC and that was due to Trae demands and our owners wanting to appease Trae. They weren't under those demands with Dre. Just JC and the Murray trade. 

[Peoriabird]

On 11/2/2023 at 12:20 PM, Diesel said:

Wow... I'm catching Sample Size flack for 6 games.   Let me explain.   I was speaking mainly on his play under Snyder... We have had 4-5 years of watching Hunter in a Hawks Jersey under two different coaching regimes.   Hunter is a player that is very polarizing because of his evident potential but his lack of production.   My hope was that after 6 games we could see which Hunter was showing up for Quin.... i.e. a Referendum.   So far, he has shown us that he's showing up for Quin.  And in the game it's paying off.

The other part to that is that some players shrink when it comes to change and the displeasure of the fan base.  I believe I penned this post right after Hunter was asked what he worked on this summer and he said "NOTHING".   It was a smartassy answer but at the same time, it almost seemed like he was ready to go.   Players that are ready to go rarely play hard for the new coach. 

I'm glad that he did work on something during the offseason and I am glad that he is buying into the Quin system.  With him playing up to his potential, we may be the best team in the East.

 

Still nothing about his health and I'm on the 3rd page 

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Go to all of these two way big wings and you will see similar injury histories. It's clear, you are refusing to do that because it doesn't play into your dislike narrative of Dre. You are the same person who begs for PG13 to Atlanta or Kawhi. Those two are more injured than Dre.

I really don't care about the other "big Wings" but since you mentioned them...

PG13 + Kawhi in LAC = no rings.   This was supposed to be supertwins activate but instead it has been Load management and Injury central.   But there's no need for me to argue with you... I will let you read what this article says:

"

Without Kawhi, the Clippers cannot contend. We saw it last season when injuries to Kawhi and Paul George slowed the team down so much that they exited in the play-ins, even with PG13 healthy. This was a narrow contention window given the ages of the stars and their injury history, so this 4th season for this Clippers' core might be the final proving opportunity.

As wings age, their games tend to regress relatively quickly. Kawhi is already looking to play off years of injuries to his lower half while PG is no-less injury-prone either. If they can't find health at the right time, their hopes of winning a championship may be hurt this season."

Having a Big wing is not worth it if we can't depend on them to be there when it's winning time. 

 

[Peoriabird]

So I see @Diesel is not going to address his attempts at deception now which is so cowardly

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, deester11 said:

[M]any of us are basketball lifers.  I played, coached all sports my entire life.  Up until recently I posted here and there.  But to see others talk down to other people about their knowledge of ball is...inherently stupid.  You can disagree with what player is this or that, but at the end of the day I'm not, you're not and no one else on this board has control over Hawk decisions.  

If it were MY decision, the construction of this team would look different. I'm admittedly a Hunter detractor..hater..whatever you call it. I see value in his being a big wing. Defense. Ok if that's your argument. But it's 5 years in and I'm hearing the same things about him.  He doesn't do it for me. Sorry if that's not KNOWING basketball.  He's not the issue though. I'll say that.

 I don't believe most of you guys aren't hoop lifers. I believe many of you are. Most of us have a basketball background. 

I literally was offered an internship while in college by the Miami Heat but turned it down because I wanted to be paid. Big mistake. That said, my Basketball understanding got me that. This is not a difficult game but it's really hard for most fans to understand it. None of my teammates in college had a lick of basketball understanding. It might as well been a game of NBA Live. Bells and whistles only. 

BBIQ is difficult to have. I loved Travis because of his BBIQ. I just think he was blinded by Steph Curry and should have used his knowledge to take Luka. 

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

I really don't care about the other "big Wings" but since you mentioned them...

PG13 + Kawhi in LAC = no rings.   This was supposed to be supertwins activate but instead it has been Load management and Injury central.   But there's no need for me to argue with you... I will let you read what this article says:

"

Without Kawhi, the Clippers cannot contend. We saw it last season when injuries to Kawhi and Paul George slowed the team down so much that they exited in the play-ins, even with PG13 healthy. This was a narrow contention window given the ages of the stars and their injury history, so this 4th season for this Clippers' core might be the final proving opportunity.

As wings age, their games tend to regress relatively quickly. Kawhi is already looking to play off years of injuries to his lower half while PG is no-less injury-prone either. If they can't find health at the right time, their hopes of winning a championship may be hurt this season."

Having a Big wing is not worth it if we can't depend on them to be there when it's winning time. 

 

Now you just being ridiculous 

[Peoriabird]

On 11/2/2023 at 12:24 PM, Diesel said:

Hunter gets flack for the same reason JC got flack...  The contract.   That's it.  Then you got a hungry man like Bey who is playing beside you.  You got to hold your own.

 

 

 

Here is another [post] . Any mention of health? 

 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Why do that and run the risk of someone overbidding? We already knew what his market was as his agent was seeking what would be his market. His injury history doesn't matter as much due to his position and need for his position. Big wings are the new true centers of the modern NBA. 

I 100% disagree. The only time we did that was with JC and that was due to Trae demands and our owners wanting to appease Trae. They weren't under those demands with Dre. Just JC and the Murray trade. 

They won't overbid.

[Anyone] can make these arguments about the greatness of Dre because he's not playing.  He's still a very weak rebounder.  He's still a low impact steals, blocks guy.   He is still a non team defense player. [Some] want to say he's Kawhi and PG13 good and he's not.  He's not OG Anunoby good.   Ask anybody on the board would they trade Dre + 1st rounder for Anunoby.. and see what the masses will say.   [] Dre’s not here to play the game.  You can basically say anything you want about him.. but many of us have watched him for 4 years... and aside from your view of him playing good one on one defense.. there's nothing else.  He's a terrible help defender.  He does well with his three point shooting but he can't dribble & he can't pass. 

[]you know why so many people flocked to Saddiq last year.   Saddiq played like he gave a damn.  Even though he didn't know where he was going or what to do.. He got his nose into every rebound.   He tried to reach out to steal the ball whenever it came his way.  That looks good when you compare it to a guy who doesn't do shit but guard his own man.   6'875 225 and won't go in for a rebound.  6'875 225.. when he has played in 230 games averaging 31 mpg.. he has 77 blocks total and 154 steals total.  In one season, Anunoby had 50 blocks and 124 steals. 

But we hear the same things...  He's young.   He's been injured.  He's still a big wing... Blah blah blah...  This is the place where I will just sit back and let you spout off about how much basketball knowledge you have and how none of those stats mean anything...yada yada yada... To wit I will say.. Yes, he's a big wing.  But he is to big wings what Rumeal Robinson was to PGs.

 

 

 

[Peoriabird]

On 11/2/2023 at 2:48 PM, Diesel said:

If he consistently plays with heart, I will be satisfied.   My problem with @NBASupes is that previously, he was giving Dre platitudes and congratulations and Dre wasn't doing one darn thing.   He would call the rest of HS idiots and say we don't know basketball and Dre wasn't doing anything but standing in front of his man.  I hope @NBASupes can see what "WE" were referring to NOW tha Dre is playing inspired basketball.  You don't have to guess about it when a guy plays up to his potential.  You don't have to look extraordinarily hard at advanced stats to make a case for a guy if he's playing up to his potential.   Last year, 2 rebounds, no assists, 3 turnovers, and 13 points and @NBASupes was saying Dre is the Best player we have had since Al Horford.   Now, Dre has cut down on the times he has bounced the ball off his foot.   He has cut down on the times he only looked for his shot.  He has cut down on the fact that he was indecisive with the ball.   He has cut down on the times that he walked into a trap.  His floor vision is better.   His anticipation is better.  His help defense was always good.   If this keeps up, you will hear no complaints from me because he is helping my favorite team. 

 

 

More criticizing play not injury