Hawks faithful... Did you really consider this at all??

[Diesel]

• Clint - 6'10 - 240. 
• OO - 6'8"  - 235
• Jalen - 6'9 - 220
• Dre  - 6'8 - 225
• Saddiq - 6'7" - 215
• Garrison  - 6'5" - 215

 

We have been sidetracked with Jalen being out for 4 to 6 weeks.   I want you to pay attention to size.  IF Jalen is out and Dre is out.. then at the 4, based on Quin's rotation..  we're starting Saddiq and playing Garrison.   If you watched last night... Denver punked Garrison.   I think Garrison is a hard worker... all that.. but he's small as hell.  Aaron Gordon was rag dolling the hell out of Garrison.   Saddiq comes in... he's been in the weight room.  He's a go getter.  He puts up a much better fight... but at most he's 218-220.  He's still no consequence for bigs.

Jokic gave you every reason to believe that we need to play big or give Bruno some minutes or something.  When Clint went out.. it was a blood bath out there.   Jokic backed OO down at will.   OO is giving up about 45 pounds and 3 inches.   Not to mention Jokic has elite feetwork.

Everybody is saying Blame Trae, Blame DJ... our problem is that we don't have the size to rebound with most teams... and that's why we're losing.   Bogi put up his best game ever... EVER. It didn't matter because whenever Denver missed a shot, they got the rebound. 

[kg01]

The curse of Al Horf... .  ..  .

[shakes]

If the answer is "play  Bruno Fernando"  i would assume the question is "what's the best way for the Hawks to tank?"

[AHF]

I think people have thought about this based on the discussion around the weakness of our frontcourt and how they were deployed in the Denver game thread combined with the offseason anxiety around dumping JC for nothing leaving us with JJ and small or combo forwards as the only options at the PF spot.

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

I think people have thought about this based on the discussion around the weakness of our frontcourt and how they were deployed in the Denver game thread combined with the offseason anxiety around dumping JC for nothing leaving us with JJ and small or combo forwards as the only options at the PF spot.

I think they may have thought about it.. but the connection is not there.   Our PF out there last night was 6'7" 215.  His back up said he was 6'7 but If I were wagering, I would say 6'5".  I was proud and embarrassed all at the same time.   Anyway.. i don't think there is a connection with most of the fans that post here... because we're still pointing fingers at our backcourt and calling for backcourt trades...  

Are you Serious?

The problem is not Trae and it's not DJ.  The problem is we're giving up Rebounds like crazy because we're small and/or soft. 

[AHF]

There is a problem with the Trae / DM combo imo.  But that is a separate issue from the problems in the front court.  Where I start entertaining trading one of them is not because we can't succeed with the two of them offensively but because you might need to send one out in a deal to upgrade the front court.  (I don't think anyone is climbing over themselves to get Hunter or CC or OO right now.)

[Diesel]

28 minutes ago, AHF said:

There is a problem with the Trae / DM combo imo.  But that is a separate issue from the problems in the front court.  Where I start entertaining trading one of them is not because we can't succeed with the two of them offensively but because you might need to send one out in a deal to upgrade the front court.  (I don't think anyone is climbing over themselves to get Hunter or CC or OO right now.)

No...  That's bad math. First see what the frontcourt looks like when JJ comes back...

 

[AHF]

13 hours ago, Diesel said:

No...  That's bad math. First see what the frontcourt looks like when JJ comes back...

 

Not sure what math you are looking at but I’m looking at a backcourt that may just be too small.  If that is the case you likely need to trade one of them.  If so, then becomes a question of where to upgrade and not a question of math.

JJ performing at a high level helps but the problems in our FC don’t end with his return.

[Spud2nique]

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

JJ performing at a high level helps but the problems in our FC don’t end with his return.

Ya I think some people think JJ is gonna fix it all. He’s been awesome but we need more.

[JayBirdHawk]

13 hours ago, Diesel said:

No...  That's bad math. First see what the frontcourt looks like when JJ comes back...

 

The only math right now is that we play at least the next 12-15 games without JJ. What will our record look like. We've won 1 game since his injury.

Quin need to adjust his lineups to play bigger and finish games with Bogi when he's playing well.

[Diesel]

7 hours ago, AHF said:

Not sure what math you are looking at but I’m looking at a backcourt that may just be too small.  If that is the case you likely need to trade one of them.  If so, then becomes a question of where to upgrade and not a question of math.

JJ performing at a high level helps but the problems in our FC don’t end with his return.

Well, our problems are multiple at this point but the two biggest IMO are:

1.   Front Court Rebounding.  I think I have made an excellent case of that above.

2.   Front Court Size and Defense.   Again...

3.  Team understanding and Buyin to Snyder's system. 

Somewhere way down the list is backcourt size.   Why?  Because we're not getting beat up by opposing guards because they are overpowering our backcourt.   We're getting beat up because guys are scoring in the paint with ease.   

We won't say it but it needs to be said...  OO's defense has been horrid.  He's always out of place.   He's started back jumping at every fake... I don't know what the hell has happened.   That has nothing to do with Backcourt Size.  

Trae is playing the best defense of his career.. and you want to point at Backcourt size as the biggest problem.  NOPE...

Even when you look at DJ.   IF DJ had good help behind him, his defense style would be much better.  He's a gambling style of defender.  He's no Joe Johnson, Allan Houston type of Defender.  You actually want a gambler in the open court and on the perimeter.   Last year, I watched Miami put Lowry and Gabe Vincent on the court together and shut down other teams with Defense.   Not because those guys are lock down defenders... they may be... but they had Butler and Bam behind them 

When DJ looks back.. there's Hunter.... only guarding his man.  OO out of position.   And Saddiq or Mathews... way out of position.   With JJ being back, he's not going to fix everything but he will fix something.  We're in every game even though we're losing. 

 

 

[Vol4ever]

On 12/12/2023 at 10:46 AM, Diesel said:

• Clint - 6'10 - 240. 
• OO - 6'8"  - 235
• Jalen - 6'9 - 220
• Dre  - 6'8 - 225
• Saddiq - 6'7" - 215
• Garrison  - 6'5" - 215

 

We have been sidetracked with Jalen being out for 4 to 6 weeks.   I want you to pay attention to size.  IF Jalen is out and Dre is out.. then at the 4, based on Quin's rotation..  we're starting Saddiq and playing Garrison.   If you watched last night... Denver punked Garrison.   I think Garrison is a hard worker... all that.. but he's small as hell.  Aaron Gordon was rag dolling the hell out of Garrison.   Saddiq comes in... he's been in the weight room.  He's a go getter.  He puts up a much better fight... but at most he's 218-220.  He's still no consequence for bigs.

Jokic gave you every reason to believe that we need to play big or give Bruno some minutes or something.  When Clint went out.. it was a blood bath out there.   Jokic backed OO down at will.   OO is giving up about 45 pounds and 3 inches.   Not to mention Jokic has elite feetwork.

Everybody is saying Blame Trae, Blame DJ... our problem is that we don't have the size to rebound with most teams... and that's why we're losing.   Bogi put up his best game ever... EVER. It didn't matter because whenever Denver missed a shot, they got the rebound. 

You are correct Diesel.   I dont understand why we have so many 1,2, and 3s.   You cant win with small ball.  

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

Well, our problems are multiple at this point but the two biggest IMO are:

1.   Front Court Rebounding.  I think I have made an excellent case of that above.

2.   Front Court Size and Defense.   Again...

3.  Team understanding and Buyin to Snyder's system. 

Somewhere way down the list is backcourt size.   Why?  Because we're not getting beat up by opposing guards because they are overpowering our backcourt.   We're getting beat up because guys are scoring in the paint with ease.   

We won't say it but it needs to be said...  OO's defense has been horrid.  He's always out of place.   He's started back jumping at every fake... I don't know what the hell has happened.   That has nothing to do with Backcourt Size.  

Trae is playing the best defense of his career.. and you want to point at Backcourt size as the biggest problem.  NOPE...

Even when you look at DJ.   IF DJ had good help behind him, his defense style would be much better.  He's a gambling style of defender.  He's no Joe Johnson, Allan Houston type of Defender.  You actually want a gambler in the open court and on the perimeter.   Last year, I watched Miami put Lowry and Gabe Vincent on the court together and shut down other teams with Defense.   Not because those guys are lock down defenders... they may be... but they had Butler and Bam behind them 

When DJ looks back.. there's Hunter.... only guarding his man.  OO out of position.   And Saddiq or Mathews... way out of position.   With JJ being back, he's not going to fix everything but he will fix something.  We're in every game even though we're losing. 

 

 

They are separate issues but if you have a problem like a backcourt that is too small you might be able to use the abundance of talent at that role to pick up talent that is needed.  You say front court size, rebounding and defense are our biggest priorities.  One way to get that would be to trade DM.  I'm not on a quest to trade him or anything but I'd consider that is one potential lever that can be pulled to address the frontcourt - especially if someone like Sabonis comes up available for a team looking for a guard.