The Biggest Sacred Cow in Atlanta!!!

[Diesel]

Is not Trae Young. 

Right now, the Biggest Sacred Cow in Atlanta is Quin Snyder.

We went to Costa Rica to pay him 8 million dollars per year to coach this team.  He came in like a Beam of Light.   Started early... Looked inspiring.   Then in the offseason, brought in his people. 

Let's Look at some things....

• He had to give the OK to Move JC. 
• Players are taking a long time to learn his system.
• We don't know how to play with a lead. 
• Now he's saying we need bigger, longer players. 
• He doesn't understand situational basketball. 
• He doesn't play Rookies and Young players. 
• He is stone faced about his rotations. 

Just want to hear about some of the Utah stuff...

 

 

 

Is this not what we're seeing?

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

It's exactly what we're seeing.

[macdaddy]

Nate didn't win with this team.  We subtracted JC and added nothing and we're surprised the new coach isn't winning with this team?  

It's the talent.  

[Diesel]

4 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Nate didn't win with this team.  We subtracted JC and added nothing and we're surprised the new coach isn't winning with this team?  

It's the talent.  

Nate didn't win with this team because Nate's designs and plays were antiquated.   He didn't use all of the players at his disposal.   He threw away the playbook he had when we went to the ECFs. 

Just think about it @macdaddy and answer me this...

Did we have more talent when we went to the ECF or last year?

Either way though, somehow, I believe that Quin had to sign off on us trading JC. 

[Diesel]

22 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

It's exactly what we're seeing.

It's scary when you go back and look at the complaints that Utah fans had about Quin.

• Not able to make adjustments in a game or in a series. 
• Offensive philosophy eventually leads to losses. 
• Gives up big leads.

Listen to the words of Gobert article.   Gobert said that the players basically sleepwalked once they got up by 15.   (sounds familiar). 

Their losing streak was highlighted by:  Not Boxing out, throwing away the ball, falling asleep on switches, taking bad shots, allowing the offense to stagnate.  These are the same things we do now.   The exact same things that lead to us losing games we should win.

Somehow or another... it's coaching. 

The problem is that we will get some fake gold.  Just like Utah did.   When Quin gets us cooking, we may be the best team in the East.   Just like Utah.  But we will be a first round exit if he's coaching us in the playoffs because he doesn't adjust... Just like Utah.   The fake gold is going to keep us interested enough to think that we're going to do something every year.  So even with talent... we're doomed to the Hamster Wheel because Quin ain't it. 

 

 

 

[AHF]

I think asnyder has been catching a lot of heat here lately which is appropriate.  We’ve played like garbage the last few weeks and he is the coach.  If we upgrade the roster then great but until then he needs to find ways to be effective with what he has.

[Diesel]

20 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think asnyder has been catching a lot of heat here lately which is appropriate.  We’ve played like garbage the last few weeks and he is the coach.  If we upgrade the roster then great but until then he needs to find ways to be effective with what he has.

Exactly.  It's not talent that loses big leads.   You get big leads.... which means that you were talented enough to get them.  It's coaching that loses big leads.   When you don't make adjustments... when you don't change your rotation to fit the situation on the floor...   and the lead disappears.. that's all on the coach. 

 

[shakes]

Following this team I'm starting to think that maybe coaching is the least important part of a team.  Maybe coaching has the least effect on the team compared to pretty much any other factor.  

 

Maybe just maybe it's the players who decide the outcomes of the games in the NBA.  Crazy concept, I know.

[macdaddy]

14 hours ago, Diesel said:

Did we have more talent when we went to the ECF or last year?

This is a joke right?   We had way more talent when we went to the ECF.   It basically comes down to who you're bringing off the bench.   Gallo>OO Lou>Bey.    Not to mention that ECF versions of JC and CC were way better than they were last year.  

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Exactly.  It's not talent that loses big leads.   You get big leads.... which means that you were talented enough to get them.  It's coaching that loses big leads.   When you don't make adjustments... when you don't change your rotation to fit the situation on the floor...   and the lead disappears.. that's all on the coach. 

 

This I can't agree with.  It can absolutely be talent that loses big leads.  Whether the coach made appropriate adjustments is different than the impact of talent (although they can certainly pile on one another).  

The consistent struggles in the third quarter do speak to a coaching issue for me but I don't think every blown lead is a coach screwing up or anything.

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

This I can't agree with.  It can absolutely be talent that loses big leads.  Whether the coach made appropriate adjustments is different than the impact of talent (although they can certainly pile on one another).  

The consistent struggles in the third quarter do speak to a coaching issue for me but I don't think every blown lead is a coach screwing up or anything.

And what adjustments are there?  There are no proven vets that are still capable to put in the camp to steady things.  

[JayBirdHawk]

16 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

And what adjustments are there?  There are no proven vets that are still capable to put in the camp to steady things.  

Here are a few adjustments just from rotations:

1.  He doesn't always have to end games with the starters, OO and Bogi vs CC and Bey

2.  Play OO and JJ more minutes with the starters.

3. Play the big lineup JJ, OO, CC 

4. To combat the Trae trap, play Bogi and have him initiate the offense from the backcourt in lieu of Trae.

[thecampster]

Diesel, I'm not all in on crapping on Quin yet.  Like with all wounds, it has to hurt if its to heal.  I see this as a process, fleshing out the problems on the team and slowly correcting them.

Personally, I'm ready to walk away from Clint, start OO and bring Bruno off the bench (unless a trade nets a big body center).

Personally, I'm ready to walk away from Bey at the 3 and maybe DH for a bigger 4, no different than what their current plans are. I'm down with the get bigger around Trae plan.

I would have loved Barrett to come in at the 2/3.  I just want to get bigger/longer. I loved the havoc Orlando's length caused us last night and I'd like to see us built like that.

 

I don't want to crap on Quin till he's given something better to work with.

[Vol4ever]

42 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Diesel, I'm not all in on crapping on Quin yet.  Like with all wounds, it has to hurt if its to heal.  I see this as a process, fleshing out the problems on the team and slowly correcting them.

Personally, I'm ready to walk away from Clint, start OO and bring Bruno off the bench (unless a trade nets a big body center).

Personally, I'm ready to walk away from Bey at the 3 and maybe DH for a bigger 4, no different than what their current plans are. I'm down with the get bigger around Trae plan.

I would have loved Barrett to come in at the 2/3.  I just want to get bigger/longer. I loved the havoc Orlando's length caused us last night and I'd like to see us built like that.

 

I don't want to crap on Quin till he's given something better to work with.

I wanted Barrett in the draft and then by trade.   I'm not sure how Portland feels about him, but I guess that ship has sailed.  

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, shakes said:

Following this team I'm starting to think that maybe coaching is the least important part of a team.  Maybe coaching has the least effect on the team compared to pretty much any other factor.  

 

Maybe just maybe it's the players who decide the outcomes of the games in the NBA.  Crazy concept, I know.

As a Bulls fan, you should know that there is a big difference between Doug Collins and Phil Jackson... Or do you??

 

[Vol4ever]

What I saw last night.   

 

There is no player, well maybe DJ and Bogi to an extent beyond Trae that can get their own shot.   We do not try to play defense; I watch shot after shot from the wing that wasn't defended.   I watched layups by Orlando that our guys were still at the free throw line watching them go by.  We didn't box out most of the time.   Bey should be on the bench.  We are missing talent, length, and basketball IQ on this team.  We are extremely physically weak and get pushed around.  JJ is a finesse 3 that can dunk and get out and run.  Capella is way too slow.  I can't believe Garrison Mathews is playing over AJ, I know we've discussed his issues in this thread, but Mathew's talent is not there, I guess he hustles.  I think Bruno needs more run, why is he not playing, at least he goes to the rim and rebounds.  

Whew............fire away.

[shakes]

8 minutes ago, Diesel said:

As a Bulls fan, you should know that there is a big difference between Doug Collins and Phil Jackson... Or do you??

 

yea one got to coach a young and developing MJ/Scottie/Horace etc and the other got to coach the prime versions of those same players.

 

Collins was more emotional and Phil was calm which was always the "Key difference" that was pointed out to us Bulls fans for the reason for the change.

I doubt the Bulls dynasty is any less dynasty-y with Collins as the coach rather than Phil.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

This is a joke right?   We had way more talent when we went to the ECF.   It basically comes down to who you're bringing off the bench.   Gallo>OO Lou>Bey.    Not to mention that ECF versions of JC and CC were way better than they were last year.  

OO last year > OO then. 

DJ >> Kev. 

JC last year < JC then 

CC last year < CC then

Dre last year > Solo.

Aholi < Lou

Bey > Snell

JJ < Gallo

I don't think that there is that great of a difference if a difference towards last year being worst at all. 

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

This I can't agree with.  It can absolutely be talent that loses big leads.  Whether the coach made appropriate adjustments is different than the impact of talent (although they can certainly pile on one another).  

The consistent struggles in the third quarter do speak to a coaching issue for me but I don't think every blown lead is a coach screwing up or anything.

In every blown big lead... the Coach did something wrong.   Even if it's he didn't call a T.O. to stop the momentum.  It still comes down to what the coach did. 

The other night is a prime example.   We were up by 35 on the Spurs.  We come out of the Half and going into the 4th, the lead was around 6.   Two questions that lead us to a conclusion.

1.  What happened that allowed us to get a 35 point lead?

2.  What happened to let us give up 29  of those points.

Barring an injured player... it falls back to the coaching.   Even a series or two where the players may have made a blunder and allowed the other team to get easy scores.. let's say 2 4pt plays in a row... that's still only 8 points.    And if it is the same player.. why didn't the coach PULL HIM. 

The answer to those two questions leads me to the Coach is not adjusting to adjustments.   This is what they saw in Utah.

 

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

Diesel, I'm not all in on crapping on Quin yet.  Like with all wounds, it has to hurt if its to heal.  I see this as a process, fleshing out the problems on the team and slowly correcting them.

Personally, I'm ready to walk away from Clint, start OO and bring Bruno off the bench (unless a trade nets a big body center).

Personally, I'm ready to walk away from Bey at the 3 and maybe DH for a bigger 4, no different than what their current plans are. I'm down with the get bigger around Trae plan.

I would have loved Barrett to come in at the 2/3.  I just want to get bigger/longer. I loved the havoc Orlando's length caused us last night and I'd like to see us built like that.

 

I don't want to crap on Quin till he's given something better to work with.

The problem with that take is that it puts all the blame on the players.   Prunty had these same players last year and he was winning more with them.  ( I consider the end of the season Prunty and Not Quin).  Quin has to show that he can win with what we have before we go off trading good players for BS.   I'm OK with getting longer... but I'm not breaking up the team to do it. 

Moreover, what has OO done to deserve to replace Clint?  OO has been fresh Bull turds out there.   When he comes in, leads disappear.   I think he's more part of the problem if you want to blame players.   Clint is more part of the solution.   Yeah, he misses a bunny here and there, but he locks down the middle.  He rebounds.  He's a consistent scoring threat.   Find us a better Center, then we can talk moving from CC.. but don't hand me OO and say he's better because we drafted him... because he's not.