Question for the board...

[beav]

Now that it has been a few days since "the trade" I wanted to get some opinions from folks here. For the people that don't know me, I'm a Hawks and Blazers fan and have seen Rasheed play around 500 games for the Blazers.

The first question is mainly for the people that are extremely negative about him. Notwithstanding the fact that you might hate to lose shareef (play), ratliff (?) or dickau (dickaufan), what is it that you hate about him? Also how do you balance that with his talent and what he brings to a team?

The second part is regarding the possibility of signing Kobe Bryant. It seems that everyone that has posted here would give a body part to get him. Obviously if he is convicted of a rape charge that will not happen. So if he does seem quite likely to have been guilty and is still acquitted (since let's face it many wealthy people in this country might get away with a crime), would you still want him? I've not seen one person here write anything about this.

And for the record, I've always liked Rasheed's game (I'm remaining neutral on the rest of his behavior). He did take it outside too often when Portland needed low-post scoring, but he is extremely talented offensively and defensively. He is also (with a few exceptions, and sabonis forgave him) generally loved by his teammates.

Kobe on the other hand has had strife with teammates and has never been known as being a huge team player.

So would Rasheed's getting busted for pot, getting a ton of technicals and other arguable trangressions (the incident with the ref was disputed by two players from opposing teams as happening the way it was reported in the press) make him a player that you wouldn't consider at least as much as a Kobe?

One last trivia question (this is unrelated by the way)... how many players in the NBA had a longer tenure with their current team than Rasheed until he was traded last week?

Thanks...

[Lascar78]

For the trivia question... I believe Hendu's tenure with the hawks is the longest in the league, so I'll just take a guess and say 1: Hendu! (can't think of anyone else really. no big names at least)

[Diesel]

I don't hate Sheed. I think he's intense. I think that the trade really favored PTL unless the Hawks can get a major FA in the offseason.

I also think that there's a very fine line that one has to draw when talking about these trades for ending contracts. Being a Hawks fan, you should remember these:

Smitty for JR/JJ.

JR made it til Feb before he was casted away.

Nique for Manning.

Manning played his "29" games and then he was gone.

The difference. In both cases, Babcock made the trades in the worse possible times. The Nique trade was made while we were the best team in the East. Heading toward the playoffs, with NO Jordan to defeat us. The Smitty trade was right after a playoff run when we had lost to the Knicks. We have 4 first rounders coming in...

I said it was different because Knight made this trade while we were close to the bottom. Haven't strung together 2 straight wins all season. This was a team that needed to change. The new owners should embrace change because they will be the ones to come in and be represented by whatever they approve.

[Nicholasp27]

we have to get 2 of the following FAs for DECENT contracts for it to be close to worth it..

kobe

qrich (not too big)

kmart (NOT MAX)

crawford (not too big)

sheed (much less than making now)

okur (NOT MAX)

arroyo (not too big)

are there really any other decent FAs?

the biggest thing Knight must do is to not overpay...if nothing else, sign one of the above to a decent contract and then get a bunch of vets for 1-year contracts to ride out until summer 05

get rivers/scott/whomever here to coach

get nique in as an assistant

start developing our lotto pick and diaw and FA young prospect

[Diesel]

We just need 2 of them and we need 2 of them so that we can build.

For instance.

Kmart - Max at 9.5

QRich - Starting at 7.0.

Arroyo - Starting more than the MCE.

That's not too much.....

IF we trade JT for Space... Then this is a very good start.

We get a lot of 1 year contracts. Then Next year when Hendu's 9, CC's 3, Jax's 2 comes off the books) we will be right there with the start of a team that includes:

Kmart, Qrich, Diaw, Arroyo, our draft pick 2004, our draft pick 2005. And Cash...

2005 will be one of the biggest FA class ever. We will have a mountain of cash if we play it right.

[cyman3]

yea.. hendo has been here for a while...

but my best guess would be REGGIE MILLER since the late 80s!

am i rite?

[macdaddy]

Excellent questions beav. I'll start with Rasheed. I'd love to have him but its already very obvious that he doesn't want to play with the Hawks next season. And we knew that when we traded for him. That being the case we essentially got nothing for Reef.

I agree with you about Kobe. He is the last person I'd want in a Hawks uniform. He has a great game but he's not going to succeed without a lot of help. And if he's not winning he's whining (because he's whining even when he's winning).

To really answer your question I'd rather have Rasheed here getting T's than Kobe serving his probation, making me not want to bring my daughter to a game, dissin his teammates, trying to get his coach fired, and making that cry baby face when he doesn't get all the 'laker calls' from the refs.

The problem is neither of them want to play here.

[chillzatl]

I have nothing against Rasheed. For the right amount of money I would like to keep him. He's comparable to Shareef, better in some ways, not in others. Other than a few weed busts, he's never been a problem as far as teammates or coaches go. His problems were with the Refs and I think he's matured beyond that, for the most part.

Kobe.. I like Kobe. I would take him regardless of his legal troubles. We would instantly become a team that millions watched every night. Combined with a solid inside player and some quality role players we would be an ECF contender. Too much to pass up if the opportunity is there. We've got to be in that mix if we can.

[beav]

Although the majority ducked out of the Kobe question!

Personally after being pretty disgusted with ruben patterson (aka the nannystopper) I would say no to Kobe if he looked guilty. If he didn't look guilty then it is of course a different story.

As far as the trivia question, yes Alan Henderson and Reggie Miller are indeed correct, and also Kevin Garnett. Allan Houston, Kobe and Shaq were with their teams as long as Wallace was with Portland but not longer. Boy, Hendu sure does stick out with that crew eh?

[KB21]

First of all, when Atlanta traded Dominique, they had the best record in the Eastern Conference. With Dominique, they had the look of a team that was going to the NBA Finals. They were the only team in the league that season that handled the Houston Rockets.

Secondly, no matter how much you, I, or anyone will like Shareef Abdur-Rahim as a person and a player, he's no Dominique Wilkins as a player.

The timing of that deal was bad and it killed any hopes of that team achieving playoff success. The timing of this deal was not bad, because what Atlanta had wasn't working. The deal had to be made so Atlanta would have the opportunity, through several millions of dollars in cap room, to get better.

[Diesel]

This is what I just said...

[Plainview1981]

They were the only team in the league that season that handled the Houston Rockets. "

Who would guard Hakeem in the finals? Willis? as if he'd

stand a chance.

[KB21]

And it didn't matter back then. Hakeem was going to get his. Atlanta could only counteract him by throwing two big bodies to absorb some fouls his way in Andrew Lang and Jon Koncak.

In the same sense, Houston couldn't counteract Dominique Wilkins and the overall balance of that Hawks team.

Atlanta gave the Rockets their first loss of the season in that particular year. Houston was 15-0 going into Atlanta nad left with a 133-111 loss. Houston later beat Atlanta in February 103-99.

[Diesel]

I remember that Houston Game....

Houston came in on a 17 game streak. They had just beat the mighty Knicks. We had about a 8 or 9 game streak going ourselves. We handled them.

The question wasn't who would have stopped Hakeem, the question is how would they have stopped Nique?

I believe that Babcock made one good knee jerk reaction to trading Nique... That was getting Long/Smith for Willis.... However: We could have played and beat everyone in the east but the Orlando series would have been interesting.

[Plainview1981]

A old Nique couldn't have lead the Hawks in the finals

over a prime C Hakeem. Beating a team in the regular

season means very little. What do you mean stop Nique?

he was breaking down.

[KB21]

As I have said, you repeatedly show your ignorance and reveal all doubt that you are, without a doubt, the most braindead poster on this board.

If 26.0 ppg with a 45% FG percentage and around 7 rpg is broken down, then I'd like to see what Dominique could do in his prime.

Hakeem is only 3 years younger than Dominique as well.

But what do you know. You didn't watch the Hawks back then, just as you don't watch them now.

[Plainview1981]

What was his stats after his was traded? After he was traded he was just some scorer everyone forgot about.

Hakeem was better than Nique back then. There isn't anyway the hawks were going to win the title over the Rockets.

And as good as niques numbers where...They weren't as good

as Hakeems..

27PPG

12RPG

53%fg

3.6APG

Not to mention blocks and defense.

Stat wise the Hawks and Rockets where about the same..

They both averaged 101PPG and gave up 96PPG..Both averaged

25APG. But in the end, Hakeem at center beats Nique at SF.