Dwight Howard and Religion....Arrogance

[Diesel]

Do you think this would be a help or a hinderance.

On outside the lines, he said that he wants to put a cross on the NBA LOGO. He wants to share his religion with his teammates. Now, the good news is that we can expect less problems with him... Then again, you have McDyess, NVE leading Bible Studies in Denver. The question is has he already said enough to make his stock drop.

Secondly..

Do you think Howard is Arrogant or just saying what his agent told him to say. To Orlando, he told them that he's better than Okafor. Before playing on TV, he said that he believes he can be as good if not better than Lebron James. His latest line is that he's a cross between KG and Duncan.

Now, I like confidence. I wouldn't want a draft pick who didn't have confidence. However, when is confidence become arrogance and is Howard at that point and is it good or bad?

[TheDude]

i think he needs to call it quits on the cross/nba logo thing...one thing that I've actually agreed with Screamin A. Smith is that he's just a boy... he can't come in and start telling grown adults how to live. I understand preaching the word but putting a cross in the NBA logo?..somebody needs to tell him to stop with that. it's a professional sports organization, not church...

actually that's the only thing that worries me about him..the confidence to me is a great thing...

[DominiqueWilkins]

Quote:

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outside the lines, he said that he wants to put a cross on the NBA LOGO. He wants to share his religion with his teammates

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This can defently be a turn off to his teammates, and he needs to be careful. If his teammates want to take part in Howard's religion he needs to allow them to approach him, and not try to be a pastor in the locker room.

[SunsFan]

He sounds like a nut to me. He comes across as being sheltered by his parents and a little naive. How is this guy going to react to the drastic lifestyle change going into the NBA? If I had the 2nd pick, I'd probably trade it.

[ATLien_]

Well I really don't know the context of what he said, but I doubt he was being serious. If he was serious, then it probably came out wrong.

However, it's good that he wants to put God in everything he does as he should. If that makes his stock drop then thats more proof of who rules the earth.

It's ashame that you can say and do all sorts of evil things and people just don't care, but the minute you mention God people get all clamy. I'm happy to see him sold out for christ at a young age much like myself. When I tell people God bless you they look at me like I'm crazy, so I know what he is going through.

However for the people that would try to be negative towards him it really doesn't matter. If God be for you, who can be against you?

[Admin]

I absolutely agree with you ATLien. More power to him for selling out to God. He may have gone a little far if he really said that he wanted to add the cross to the NBA logo or whatever he said.......if he really said it......but still, good for him. I would rather have 12 of him on my team than 12 Darius Miles'.

[Wretch]

That's it. He's not arrogant. He's just lived a quiet, disciplined, sheltered, honest life. He's young and feels like he's the biggest thing in the world right now. He's selling himself and he's selling God - but his mind isn't matured or worldly experienced.

...and there is probably a great deal of influence from people telling him what he should say.

[Lascar78]

I'll take it that both of you are christians. I don't really believe in God and I find this very annoying. If you want to believe in specific supernatural beings, I have no problem with it. Believe whatever you want, especially if it makes you happy. When you try to impose it on me and others all the time, it's very annoying. You don't hear non-believers going around saying how important it is for believers not to waste their time believing in superstition and fables that are unproven or untrue. Especially with all the wars caused by religion, or more recently terrorist attacks. And I'm guessing you'd be annoyed if people did shove this rhetoric down your throat, especially your sport heroes.

PLEASE ANSWER THIS:

tell me honestly how would you feel if he was muslim and praising allah in every sentence and saying that we need a crescent moon on the nba logo? And how he plans on using his gift of playing basketball to convert as many young kids and teammates as possible to Islam to follow in Mohammed's footsteps. I'm guessing you wouldn't be quite as high on it would you? I understand that this is the bible belt and that a majority around here are very christian, but that doesn't make it right to go around using your position as an overpaid athlete to go around trying to force your beliefs on others or constantly pushing them in their face.

I understand that he's a kid, and that he has good intentions. And I'm sure he thinks that in doing so he can help save people's eternal souls. But the reality of it is, if people are interested in religion, they can read books, go down to a church etc, etc... There are plenty of opportunities out there without needing your local sports star endorsing a particular religion. I guess if Islam or (insert another religion of choice) is correct, he's just actually helping to send more people to hell. so it's all relative.

The bottome line is I have no problem with him being ultra religious. I have no problem with him having a bunch of religious events outside of the hawks. He can lead a bible study at centennial park every night if he wants. But don't use time when you're getting paid by the hawks to perform, or representing the hawks (or whatever team gets him) to promote your religion.

[DominiqueWilkins]

I hope he is a Tim Duncan type minded player, because we need someone who is a team player, and someone who has a wonderful attitude.

People need to not believe everything that read in the media, because they have already made up lies that he said he didn't want to play for the Clippers. Dwight came out and said he would love to play for any NBA team, and he is thankful just to be able to play for the league.

[Lascar78]

It seems that from a basketball standpoint, he has a great personnality and team spirit. And he's well mannered and won't be getting busted like Darius Miles or anything

[TheDude]

yeah, he seems like a great kid.. if he is a deep-rooted Christian, hey, more power to him..

BUT, again, the NBA is a professional sports organization. it is not a religious organization. you cannot mix the two. playing a sport of basketball has nothing to do whatsoever with playing religion. he really needs to hold back on the convert the nba speech..

[Lascar78]

still waiting to hear from Dolfan and ATLien about how they would feel if he was pushing Islam

[Admin]

We (as Christians) are constantly surrounded by the media and regular people in day to day situations forcing us to feel guilty for our beliefs. For example, on another board they are trying to make me look like I am some monster because I believe homosexuality is an abomination in God's eyes and they are trying to tell me that in this day and age I have to be tolerant of that type of behavior and that God understands and forgives them. Those are completely against mine and most Christians belief's but every day people try and make you feel guilty for being a Christian. Every single day the world gets closer and closer (due to non-Christians) to totally getting religion out of everything, when it wasnt so long ago that this country was founded on the principal of being joined as a nation under God.

To answer your other question......if he was touting Islam or another religion like that I would be okay with it. I dont think that he or anyone should try and force their beliefs on someone that doesnt to hear them......and I would bet that Howard probably isnt doing that. He was probably misquoted or something like that.

However, if I had the choice (assuming I was a non-Christian) of having someone stuff God or drugs, prostitution, homosexuality, etc. in my face all day long to try and get me to follow them I would certainly take God every day of the week without blinking.

[Traceman]

say it. He even made a drawing regarding what he thought the new logo could look like. He said that the idea came to him in a dream. The kid is VERY religious and it was pretty clear to me that he intended to try and share his beliefs with the players in the league and to use his high profile as an NBA player to spread the gospel.

All that being said, I don't have a problem with the guy using his status as an NBA player to spread the gospel, he just needs to be careful not to FORCE his beliefs on ANYONE for fear of alienating not only his teammates, but fans as well. I definitely believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is my personal saviour BUT that is a PERSONAL belief and I don't feel the need to FORCE my beliefs on anyone. I think SHARING them however is perfectly appropriate. How would Reef's teammates have felt if he had tried to force his beliefs on others? Remember how much flack Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf took for not standing for the pledge of allegiance beofre games because it went against his religious beliefs?

For his sake, I hope that young Mr. Howard is careful not to alienate his teammates but I wish him all the success in the world in doing what he believes is right.

[Admin]

Thanks for clearing that up Trace. I hadnt read the reports or seen anything on it......so thanks. There is nothing wrong (and quite a bit right) about him wanting to use his position to spread the gospel...but you are right he shouldnt try and force it on people. He is a smart kid though and I think that he will learn what is and is not acceptable behavior in the league.

[Plainview1981]

I had a rant bout this several months ago. To me he

seems like he might try and force himself on others.

But that's just the way I feel about it. I said I hated christians one time...But it was just me being a @ss.

However, I don't like the ones that try and change me. I dislike those types. I'm not the church going type that

my mom was..That's my choice.

[Lascar78]

well I personally live my life based on tolerance and empathy and respect for others. I think that's best for society as a whole. I'm assuming you think that prostitution is wrong because it demeans women and fornication is wrong. But how is this different from demeaning homosexuals (who clearly did not choose to be gay)? I know you have a book that is supposedly the word of God that you think tells you these people are wrong, but understand that you may be misguided and in the meantime you are mistreating other human beings who didn't ask for your 2 cents. Last I recall prostitutes didn't start the crusades and homosexuals didn't crash planes into the WTC. Religious zealots did it. I find religion to be very dangerous because people essentially surrender their judgement and reason to a book or religious figure. I don't want it endorsed by the government or the athlete paid to represent the city

My point is the difference is this person happens to be preaching what you believe in so that's why you think it's fine.

I understand that you have good intentions also and that you view faith as a beautiful thing, as your way of honoring God and the wonderful world and life he gave you. And if I believed in God I'd agree. but if you leave the confines of your faith and look at this rationally you'll see that this religious talk doesn't belong in sports. Neither would promotion of homosexuality, prostitution, or atheism for that matter. But no athlete ever promotes those vocally and if they did they'd get chastised. I mean AI got killed for saying practice was irrelevant. I can only imagine what would have happenned if he said everybody should go see prostitutes or everybody needs to stop going to church. But on the other hand this is supposed to be A-ok to have people push their religion.

I guess this isn't the place for this debate as this is hawksquawk so we can agree to disagree. I'm just trying to explain the reverse opinion, hope I'm not offending anyone. I guess we just disagree on whether he should be trying to spread the gospel while he's representing his team. I don't have a problem with him using his fame to do so in other settings. I'll leave you with a couple of quotes:

"The government of the united states is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." - George Washington

"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God." --George Bush Sr (scary quote if you ask me)

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer God than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours" - Stephen Roberts

PS: if people feel like continuing this argument I've got 2 questions

-1) do you agree with pres. bush's quote that I just posted?

-2) are there any non christians here who think it's just fine for him to be pushing God so much while he's performing and representing an NBA team

[Diesel]

How many thugs have A. Iverson inspired?

The point is that these are superstars in this game. Regardless of what they do, the one thing we know is that all are role models.

Back to a point that is more pertinent to the conversation. We don't live in a Muslim Nation nor do we live in an Atheist Nation... For all practical purposes, we live in a Nation that recognizes God in everything it does.

1 Nation, Under God.....

You might not like it, but that's the way it is. We recognize a freedom of religion but not really. That's just the way it is.

What is more repulsive for you...

Howard promoting what he believes or the Former Chris Jackson being kicked out of the league because he wouldn't stand up for the pledge of allegiance?

So yes, in actions, everybody promotes what they believe. Hakeem would fast for his Holy month. Some would look at that as him promoting what he believed... I'm sure his teammates knew and knew why. I'm sure if they asked him, he would explain it to them... Is Hakeem Wrong for that?

Why then do you think Howard is wrong for what he feels?

[KB21]

All I will add to this discussion is that, if I had children at this time, I'd much rather they try to be like Dwight Howard than try to be like Allen Iverson. No child of mine is going to mimmick some damn street thug!!

My role model growing up was Dale Murphy.

[Iman]

I think Howard's plans will help his career. He grew up in a Christian environment where he thinks it's important to spread his beliefs and he also feels he was God given his basketball and leadership skills to help. I think he'll be a humble young player and he'll work his butt off to be a superstar. Early on I dont think he'll sound much different than alot of athletes we hear that wanna thank God for their victory, etc, and at least he'll be sincere when he says it. Once he makes it near the top he'll come on stronger to spread "the word" in many ways but I dont think it will influence his basketball actions. Many people criticize MJ or Tiger for not doing good once they made it to the top, that definitely wont be the case if Howard becomes a star, who knows what he may do. I'll be rooting for him even if he's not a Hawk.

I saw a few TV interviews and they all seemed to emphasize the cross on the logo thing. To him it is an interesting concept and longterm goal but it's not like that's really how he plans to spread the word, it's just where in a perfect world his quest might lead. I dont get the impression that he wants to preach in the locker, etc. I think he understands how that can be viewed. I think he just wants lead by example and see where it goes from there.