Dolfan23's BIG non-Theo 3-way trade of the day

[Admin]

Atlanta Trades:

Alan Henderson to Phoenix

Nazr Mohammed to Memphis

Dion Glover to Memphis

Future 1st rounder to Memphis

Future 1st rounder to Phoenix

Atlanta Gets:

Bo Outlaw from Phoenix

Grant Long from Memphis (salary filler)

Shane Battier from Memphis

-------------------------------------------

Memphis Trades:

Grant Long to Atlanta (salary filler)

Shane Battier to Atlanta

Michael Dickerson to Phoenix

Memphis Gets:

Nazr Mohammed from Atlanta

Dion Glover from Atlanta

Joe Johnson from Phoenix

-------------------------------------------

Phoenix Trades:

Bo Outlaw to Atlanta

Joe Johnson to Memphis

Phoenix Gets:

Alan Henderson from Atlanta

Michael Dickerson from Memphis

Future first rounder from Atlanta

-------------------------------------------

Our new lineup:

JT/Email

DJ/Newble

Battier/Toni/Crawford

SAR/Outlaw/Long

Theo/Leon

Then we draft Maddux or Dixon with our second rounder and sign the best FA big man we can with our MCE. What do you guys think of this deal?

[Guest]

I'd do the deal but sign a SG that can shoot.I don't

trust Email and Iras shooting at the guard positions.

[Admin]

Yeah you are right about that, I forgot to mention that, but if we draft Dixon we will be okay there with the addition of one more FA.

[KB21]

I just don't see Memphis dealing Shane Battier. That guy will be a more important player for that team than Pau Gasol, IMO. I know a lot of people from Memphis who felt Battier was the better rookie of the two despite not having Gasol's numbers.

I feel in the long run, Gasol will be a player without a position....too slim to play in the post and not a quick enough athlete or good enough shooter to play on the perimeter. There is talk in Memphis that Gasol will play center if he can put on about 30 more lbs.

[hds428]

My biggest concern would'nt necessarily be with backcourt shooting, good rotations can insure that there's someone on the floor that can put the ball in the hole. However, with Toni and Bo, our backups would be a little long in the tooth. IF we could sign a guy of Marshall's quality with the MCE, we'd have a pretty badass squad, plus we'd be in a win/win position wether Donyell or Shane started with a scorer on the bench. But we all know how FAs are just clamouring to play in ATL, so a trade of Toni to get younger might also be necessary? Other than that, it seems to be a pretty fair trade.

[Diesel]

Phoenix gets totally screwed in this deal.

First Bo Outlaw for Hendu/1st. Not so great. Hendu is injury and useless. Hendu will finish his career a Hawk because he has no value in the market.

Second Joe Johnson for Micheal Dickerson? You ever look at the size of Dickerson? It was thought that he was too small to play SG on this level. Johnson is a clone of Penny. That's why they traded for him. In time, Johnson will be hard to stop.

Lastly, I don't see Memphis giving up Battier that easily. Nazr = Lo... Maybe less on offense.Why would they trade Battierf for another Lo?? But if you put Theo in that spot, Memphis would probably happily do it.

[Blunt91]

Stop with the Theo for Battier trade. We are not going to give up Theo for Shane. Do you know how hard it is to find a good center in the NBA? I think the Hawks will find out whether Theo can remain reasonably heathy this season by him competing in the summer league games and with the team holding the voluntary scrimmages each month during the offseason.

[SunsFan]

In reply to:

---

First Bo Outlaw for Hendu/1st. Not so great. Hendu is injury and useless. Hendu will finish his career a Hawk because he has no value in the market.

---

Henderson doesn't contribute much but Outlaw doesn't either. Henderson doesn't have value as a player but I wouldn't mind swapping Outlaw for him simply because Henderson's contract expires a year earlier. The draft pick on top of that is butter. It's a Hawk's first rounder so it should probably be a top 10 pick.

In reply to:

---

Second Joe Johnson for Micheal Dickerson? You ever look at the size of Dickerson? It was thought that he was too small to play SG on this level. Johnson is a clone of Penny. That's why they traded for him. In time, Johnson will be hard to stop.

---

This is where the problems might occur. Not because of Dickerson's size but because of him being injured all of last season. When healthy, Dickerson is exactly the kind of complimentary guard Marbury needs to excel. Johnson is far from a sure thing. I'd definitely agree to the trade on the condition that Dickerson is completely healthy.

[Guest]

Dion and TWO first rounders. Battier is a good player,just the kind of guy we need but is he that much better than the next two guys we draft plus DG. Also i don't know if Gasol will be great but i belive he will continue to improve and be a more valuable player than Battier.

[Guest]

In reply to:

---

Stop with the Theo for Battier trade. We are not going to give up Theo for Shane. Do you know how hard it is to find a good center in the NBA?

---

Do you need a "GOOD C" in the east anymore.

The final four of the East...

NJ, Boston, Detroit, and Charlotte.

Of all these teams, Charlotte has the best C.

McCollough

Whoever, Detroit has.

Battie

Campbell.

Where is the need for a good C?

What is needed in the east is a good PF. Good rebounders and Scorers. We don't have the rebounders yet... But Battier would have better defense and scoring. Plus, I would not do a Theo for Shane trade straight up because Theo is a lot better. But in the east, we can win it without a C.

[ATLien_]

I don't know about you Diesel but I don't want to just win in the east. We were wining in the east for a long time with Deke and the gang. We want to win a championship. We will not win a championship with out a center. Theo is a big part of this team and unless your planning on replacing him with a young up and comer ie maglorie etc... then I don't want to trade him. I thought it was like an unwritten rule not to trade big for small.

[Guest]

In reply to:

---

In response to:

Poster: ATLien_

Subject: Re: Why does Phoenix want Hendu again?

I don't know about you Diesel but I don't want to just win in the east. We were wining in the east for a long time with Deke and the gang. We want to win a championship. We will not win a championship with out a center.

---

First off, I wouldn't mind winning the East. Secondly, we cannot win the NBA Champion with THEO. Especially not with a gapping hole at Sf. In fact, if we don't get another scorer, we're not even going to get close.

That's why I propose the trades I do. We have to get into a position where winning the East is possible. Right now, we are not there and ultimately, the difference between Theo and LO is not so great that it won't make much of a difference.

That's why I like to make proposals for guys like:

Big Dog, Battier, Griff, etc. These are guys who can be that third scorer. Battier and Griff can add that defensive player that is a good thing to help us reach our goal.

I would happily trade Theo/1st for Battier/Lo. The reason being is that IMO, THEO will not make that much of a difference if we don't add some offensive firepower to this team. Plus Theo's heart is very questionable. Some say he's injury prone. I don't believe that that's the case. From everything I have read about him, I think his injury is his heart. And I don't like players without heart. The least you can do at any given time is suck it up and quit whining.

Theo/1st for Battier/Lo would make us better.

Theo/Glover for Big Dog/Pryz would make us Better.

Theo for Griff/Cato would make us better down the road.

Theo for Jones might make us better.

Theo/Glover for Mash/Magloire would make us better.

The bottom line is this.... He's a valuable player because of what he can do.... However, I don't think that he's good enough (alone) to make us that much better than we were last yr. We are in desperate need of another scorer.

[Admin]

If it would have worked Salary wise I would be willing to swap Toni for Hendu in that deal, but getting Hendu/first isnt bad at all for Outlaw. Bo is exactly the type of frontcourt player we need coming off the bench. I know you guys wouldnt want to lose Johnson, but from what I saw of him in 5-6 games last year I wasnt that impressed. He shoots way too much for his FG% IMO. He isnt timid thats for sure, but he was taking too many shots away from Marion/Marbury and not making them. Dickerson when healthy, as you said, is a very solid SG that could help you out big time. He is a little short to play alongside Marbury possibly, but who could run with a trio of Marbury, Dickerson, and Marion.

Thanks for being reasonable with this trade and understanding that it makes sense for you guys. So far I have had a Suns fan, Grizzlies fan, and Hawks fan all see that this isnt a bad deal at all.

[Guest]

I think we would be fine to throw the 4.5 million at Marshall

and try and improve our bench unless Dice/Jones deal could

be worked out.

[Traceman]

Why do you think Gasol is "too slim to play in the post and not a quick enough athlete or good enough shooter to play on the perimeter" and that he "will be a player without a position" when you are so high on Jefferies? Jefferies is thinner and weaker than Gasol and not NEARLY as aggressive. Gasol is also a better athlete than Jefferies despite being at least 2 inches taller. Do you think Wilcox would have been able to completely shut down Gasol like he did Jefferies? I certainly don't. Gasol is a very good young player and he is going to get a lot better. He is likely going to end up at PF though he could also end up at Center if he puts on a few pounds. I can't understand why anyone would think Battier was better last year and I certainly don't think Battier has as much upside as Gasol. If we had an opportunity to get either one in a trade I would DEFINITELY take Gasol in a heartbeat. It's not even close in my opinion. Gasol's numbers were better across the board with the exception of steals and 3p fg% (Gasol took only 5), despite the fact that fact that Gasol played 3 mpg less than Battier.

As for Memphis dealing Battier, I agree with you 100% there. I don't see it happening. Why would they? Battier DOES bring a lot of intangibles to the table (leadership, physical play, work ethic, good citizen, etc) and he is locked down at a reasonable salary for 4 more years. He can play effectively at SG or SF so drafting Dunleavy (or Butler) would not be a problem. I think Gasol and Battier are the beginnings of a very solid nucleus and when you add a another high quality player to them via draft or trade, you have the start of something pretty good. I would not be surprised to see them grab Dunleavy in the draft and then try to package Swift/Dickerson for a player like Eddie Jones.

Getting back to Jefferies, why do you think Tayshaun Prince "is too weak" and will have a difficult time making the transition to SF and yet you are so sure that Jefferies can make that transition? I think Jefferies has more upside than Prince but going into the draft, they are virtually at the same point and they have the same issues. Actually, I think Prince might be better as a rookie.

Don't get me wrong by this post, I think Jefferies has a chance to be a very good NBA player, just not as good a player as you apparently think he will be. I don't think he will put up anywhere near the numbers Gasol did as a rookie and in fact, if he puts up the numbers that Gasol did last year (18 ppg/9rbg, 51% fg%) at any time in his CAREER, I will consider him a huge success.

[Guest]

Pau's FG5 will drop when he has to start hitting a few more

jumpers to open up his inside game because of all the

attention he will starting next year.Winning ROY he

became a marked man.

[Traceman]

a very high percentage. His FG% was actually 51.9%. Even if it drops 4 or 5 percentage points, that is still pretty damn good and 4 or 5 percentage points is a HUGE difference.

[KB21]

The reason I like Jared Jeffries is because he is a player that can legitimately play 5 positions. He can run the point and be a point forward type of small forward. He can play in the post. The latest I've heard is that he is up to 233 lbs at his workouts. He's a very good jump shooter and has a plethora of post moves that allow him to score. He can handle the basketball like a point guard, and in the NCAA tournament when Coverdale was injured, Jeffries was the guy bringing the ball up the court and setting the offense for the Hoosiers.

I thought the two best players in the entire NCAA tournament were Caron Butler and Jared Jeffries, and I feel both will make better pros than the guys that are more highly touted than they are.

My top 3 players in the draft:

1. Caron Butler

2. Mike Dunleavy Jr.

3. Jared Jeffries

[Guest Walter]

...you can't substitute for aggression. Gasol FAR out "aggresses" Jeffries. Talent-wise Gasol is better. Even skill-wise Gasol is better. He's better across the board save 3pt shooting. As far as 5 positions (You can be too generalized.), I think of the 3 Gasol could play now, he plays them all better than Jeffries.

Battier wasn't near the player Gasol was last year and a 4 year college player, particularly one such as Battier, cannot be thought to have a bigger upside than Gasol.

I agree about Butler and WOW if I need a Sf this is the draft I try and pick up a bargain in!

W

[KB21]

I just disagree.

Jared Jeffries is a far better ball handler, defensive player, and shooter period. As far as the positions Pau can play, right now he's pretty much limited to the PF position because he doesn't shoot well enough from the outside to play SF. That's why he predominately plays PF and C this year for Memphis.

I'm just not impressed with Gasol. The times I saw the Hawks play them, both Shareef Abdur-Rahim and Toni Kukoc abused him offensively and defensively. Gasol got some blocks when coming from the backside, but that's about all he did against Atlanta.

On Gasol vs Battier, I'm just restating what I've heard from a lot of people over here. I live very close to Memphis, so I get a lot of Grizzlies news regardless if I want to or not. Battier is simply the better all around player. He's a better shooter, better defender, and a better passer.