Why do people always make this mistake

[Admin]

I keep reading posts and hearing people talk about Al not being a PF or a protypical PF....so I have to ask, what is a prototype sized PF anyway?

Al is 6'9 250 lbs and extremely athletic and damn near impossible to stop one on one in the post and he doesnt have a great outside shot like he would need as a SF.

For what its worth, here are some of the sizes of other very successful PFs in this league.

SAR - 6'9 245 lbs

Webber - 6'10 245 lbs

Toine - 6'9 245 lbs

Rasheed - 6'11 230 lbs

Stoudemire - 6'10 245 lbs (even plays C for the Suns)

J. Oneal - 6'11 242 lbs

D. Howard - 6'11 250 lbs

I am sure there are a few more that support my ideal that Al is plenty big enough and certainly talented enough to play the 4 on a championship team. Would it be better to play him at SF where he outweighs many SFs by 25-40 lbs and where he isnt a threat to shoot the 3? I dont believe so.

So if someone can please explain to me why we cant leave Al at the 4 in the future I would love to hear it.

Oh and by the way, most of the time when Al is on the floor he is playing the 4 with either Ekezie, DRobs, or Googs playing C. I dont believe I have seen him play SF at all since the Toine trade in fact and I certainly dont believe its because we HAVE to play him at the 4.

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

---

I keep reading posts and hearing people talk about Al not being a PF or a protypical PF....so I have to ask, what is a prototype sized PF anyway?

For what its worth, here are some of the sizes of other very successful PFs in this league.

SAR - 6'9 245 lbs

Webber - 6'10 245 lbs

Toine - 6'9 245 lbs

Rasheed - 6'11 230 lbs

Stoudemire - 6'10 245 lbs (even plays C for the Suns)

J. Oneal - 6'11 242 lbs

D. Howard - 6'11 250 lbs

So if someone can please explain to me why we cant leave Al at the 4 in the future I would love to hear it.

---

I'll take this one. Of all the power forward you mentioned under 6'10" have not won squat especially SAR. secondly, They can't guard the best power forwards in the league like Duncan and Garnett. Thirdly, your power forward needs to rebound and block shots not your 2 guard and Harrington just can't do it consistently. Your are better of with a bigger player at your power forward position.

[Admin]

Bigger how? Weight wise and strength wise Al measures up against almost any PF in the league.....and please, show me one that can stop Duncan or Garnett, its not just Al. You dont have to have a PF that can block shots, as long as he rebounds, plays defense, and can score in the post which are all things Al can do.

If you mean you want someone an inch or two taller just because you dont think 6'9 can get it done, I would like some clarification on that.

Your arguement that none of those guys has won anything is pointless as well unless no PF ever under 6'10 has won a championship. For good measure,

Dennis Rodman is 6'6 220 lbs

Karl Malone is 6'9 259 lbs

Kevin McHale was 6'10 225 lbs

James Worthy was 6'9 225 lbs

Horace Grant was 6'10 245 lbs

I would say those guys were excellent PFs on championship teams, not just guys along for the ride, wouldnt you? Al is either as big or bigger than most of them. Weight wise only Malone weighs more than him and thats cause he has put on lbs recently.

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

---

Big

Dennis Rodman is 6'6 220 lbs

Karl Malone is 6'9 259 lbs

Kevin McHale was 6'10 225 lbs

James Worthy was 6'9 225 lbs

Horace Grant was 6'10 245 lbs

---

Rodman was 6'8" but was a freak of nature but he played small forward with the Pistons & Spurs. James worthy played small forward also and avg. 5.1 rebound for his career. I'll give you Karl Malone and Charles Barkley but there aren't too many more that you can mention. And of course neither one of those guy won a championship either.

[tmac13]

I think you are both right, and both wrong..Al can offensively play either position..He has a nice short and midrange game that is too quick for a 4 to defend and too strong for a 3 to defend. However, can can't play either position well on defense.He is not quick enough to guard the 3's, and not strong enough to handle the 4's. He is also no pressence in general on defense.

BTW, on your list of pf's..You took away an inch or 2 on McHale and Rodman, and Worthy never played a game at the 4..He was always a 3. Rambis and Perkins manned the 4 most of his career.

[Kaviar1]

Al, the Josh's, Donte, and Diaw are all SFs, with one playing PF, SG, or PG better than the others. This is not a bad thing, since SFs are the most versatile players on the floor anyway, and not a bad way to build a team. And this model will work and win, if BK can find us a REAL center to patrol the paint.

[Admin]

McHale was 6'10.

http://www.nba.com/history/players/mchale_summary.html

Rodman was 6'6, at least according to CNNSI.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketbal.../Dennis.Rodman/

Oh and Worthy did play quite a few games or parts of games at the 4. He may not have been the greatest example, so swap him out with Barkley and you have another sample.

[Plainview1981]

SAR - 6'9 245 lbs

Webber - 6'10 245 lbs

Toine - 6'9 245 lbs

Rasheed - 6'11 230 lbs

Stoudemire - 6'10 245 lbs (even plays C for the Suns)

J. Oneal - 6'11 242 lbs

D. Howard - 6'11 250 lbs"

One thing... ALL of those guys are better rebounders

than Al Harrington....

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

'll take this one. Of all the power forward you mentioned under 6'10" have not won squat especially SAR.

---

Uhmm... Last time I checked, Rasheed was wearing a championship Ring... and this is Howard's first year.

[Diesel]

SFs are versatile but not specialized... For example.

In a PF, you need a guy who can go and get rebounds. IF we say Al is the PF... What we see is that he sucks at getting rebounds. It's also harder for him to guard most PFs.

In a SG, you expect to have somebody that can shoot. Neither of the Josh's nor Dante or Diaw is scarying people with their ability to hit the outside shot. Plus, a SG that can drive will rip us apart defensively. If Tayshun Prince can wear us a new one, what do you expect from Vince Carter, B-Diddy, and Larry Hughes.

The point is that there's specialization. It's more than putting a guy in a position out of convenience to your roster?

[Kaviar1]

Your argument can be used aginst you also, in that our guards get more rebounds and more blocked shots than the opponents guards do, our PF handles the ball/shoots/passes better than the opponents PF, and the PG(Diaw) should be able to post-up most of the PGs he plays against. Everything is always a trade-off in this League looking for that slight advantage. And like I said there is nothing wrong with the model the Hawks have, IF they can find that one Big guy.

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

'll take this one. Of all the power forward you mentioned under 6'10" have not won squat especially SAR.

---

Uhmm... Last time I checked, Rasheed was wearing a championship Ring... and this is Howard's first year.

---

Rasheed Wallace is 6'11"! Not under 6'10". Reading is fundamental.

[Diesel]

Sure...

There are trade offs, but then you got to look at what you're trading.

For instance... Let's work with your theory here....

If you werer coaching the Spurs...

Would you put these guys on the floor at the same time:

Nesterovich/Nazr M/Tim Duncan/Robert Horry/Brent Barry...

Think about it... Your shortest play is 6'7" all guys are specialized. Horry can shoot like a SG. Nazr can rebound like a PF. Duncan can play the SF as easily as he plays the PF. The trade off you're getting is that you lose a little Speed but you get a huge Size difference that will overwhelm whoever you're playing..

Would you do it?

Why not?

[troubleman]

Quote:

---

Sure...

There are trade offs, but then you got to look at what you're trading.

For instance... Let's work with your theory here....

If you werer coaching the Spurs...

Would you put these guys on the floor at the same time:

Nesterovich/Nazr M/Tim Duncan/Robert Horry/Brent Barry...

Think about it... Your shortest play is 6'7" all guys are specialized. Horry can shoot like a SG. Nazr can rebound like a PF. Duncan can play the SF as easily as he plays the PF. The trade off you're getting is that you lose a little Speed but you get a huge Size difference that will overwhelm whoever you're playing..

Would you do it?

Why not?

---

No, I wouldn't do it, because who is going to handle the ball? Brent Barry sucks at trying to play point. When he is doubled who is going to bring the ball up the court and start the play, Horry? lol Nazr and Rasho have bricks in their shoes. Duncan would spend most of the night in foul trouble, because he cannot guard the quicker smaller forwards. That lineup is horrible, and it is a totally different scenerio than what is being discussed here.

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

That lineup is horrible, and it is a totally different scenerio than what is being discussed here.

---

That lineup may be different, but the point is that there are specialized positions on the floor for a reason. Only 2 times in the history of basketball has a player successful played out of position and his team did well.

1. Vince Carter at SF.

2. Olajuwon at PF (twin towers).

And notice that those 2 phenomenons were not long standing. VC went back to SG once Tmac Left and Olajuwon went back to C once Sampson was gone.

The reason is because basketball positions are specialized.. Especially the PG, SG, and C positions. You can't just get anybody to play those. Now the forwards are changable... but even then.. You wouldn't make Nique a Pf. Nor would you make him a SG!

I wonder...

If we went out and got Micheal Redd or Joe Johnson during the offseason.. i wonder what position Chillz would be then?

[TheDude]

to me it comes down to this:

this is a team sport...right now Al is our better player so he's our main guy..but he is sufficient for our team as our pf of the future...i don't know about you, but i think we have other worries such as center or point guard, to be wasting our sweat on the PF position....Even if you didn't think that he's the next Malone or Garnett...who cares, he's still pretty dam.n good...

[DominiqueWilkins]

I would just be happy to have a solid power forward who can defend. A PF who can average around 10 boards a night, and average around 1.5 blocks a night.

It's so hard to come by, but yet we will have a chance at signing a couple of them this offseason.

I like Al Harrington, but when you barely grab 7/8 boards a night, it pisses me off.

[Plainview1981]

One thing about Harrington... Not only is he not

really a great rebounder, he is also a poor

shot blocker averaging only .26BLK. He's probably

the best fit at SF.

[Traceman]

To me, it depends on what we get in the draft and free agency.

If Al is going to play the 4, ideally, we need a BIG, physical Center (Curry - maybe Dalembert or Kwame Brown) who takes up a lot of space. It would also help to have a SF who can rebound.

If Al is going to play the 3, ideally, we need a PF or Center (Bogut/Big Z) who can play in the high post like C Webb or Brad Miller so that Al can still get his post up opportunities OR an athletic guy who can rebound, block shots and get "garbage" points (Swift, Chandler or Dalembert).

My dream frontline for next year would feature either:

Curry/Bogut/Harrington

or

Curry/Harrington/Marvin Williams*

Smoove would play both 3 and 4 and Childress would play both 2 and 3.

* - I think Williams is going to be special and if we pass on him I have a feeling we will live to regret it. I still like Bogut a LOT as well though and he makes a lot of sense given our current personnel needs.

[Packfill]

Quote:

---

I would just be happy to have a solid power forward who can defend. A PF who can average around 10 boards a night, and average around 1.5 blocks a night.

It's so hard to come by, but yet we will have a chance at signing a couple of them this offseason.

I like Al Harrington, but when you barely grab 7/8 boards a night, it pisses me off.

---

There are alot of very good power forwards that average in the 7/8 rebound per game range:

A. Stoudamire - 8.5 in 36 minutes

P. Gasol - 8.0 in 33 minutes

R. Wallace - 8.3 in 35 minutes

A. Jamison - 7.8 in 39 minutes

If the Hawks can acquire a center that can rebound and block a few shots - and I know that is asking alot - then Harrington's offense and athleticism would fit in nicely.