Expectation of MWill career....

[Buzzard]

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The Hawks have NEVER had the #2 pick. Ever. I think the closest was #3 when we picked Koncak and #3 when we traded for Reef...

What I'm asking has very little to do with Marvin Actually... It has more to do with all these guys claiming that Marvin is the next best thing to Jordan and that he will Carry this team and that he's better than Nique (yes, somebody said that)...

I want to know, if you feel that way, what do you really expect.. What are you willing to stand by??

Either stand by your man or go home...

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I expect he will be an all-star. I expect him to average twenty or more points a game one day. I expect there will be days that he will carry this team on his shouldesr and the players around him will feed off this.

Do I expect him to be Jordan like. Hell No. Jordan carried his team every game. Marvin was the best all around player with our 2nd pick. That is what I think and expect. And as much as I like Bogut, Marvin could turn out to be the best pick by any team later down the road.

[Admin]

I was just listening to him on the way in this morning and as I was writing "in defense of Lascar" I thought I would just be funny and change that up......didnt mean you were really a peepshow girl, although I wouldnt complain if there were a few of those on the board LOL.

[Lascar78]

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Are you telling me that you will leave that place and say...

"Well, it wasn't as good as what I could have gotten at Denny's but it's still Good by me."...

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Not at all.

But I would still say we made the right decision to come here and check it out based on what we knew about the 2 places, even though it didn't work out well for us.

Why must you always dive right into a false analogy?

[Diesel]

Checking it out...

and

Having Expectations...

are 2 different things.

You don't CHECK Out a #2 Pick without HAVING EXPECTATIONS...

I expect MWILL to be better than Deron and Paul.

I expect MWIll to be better than Smoove and AL.

I expect MWIll to be an Allstar consistently after his 3rd year.

This is not SCOOBY DOO...

We're not here to CHECK it OUT...

We have waited LONG and Patiently for this.

It's prom night buddy... And I didn't ask this girl if she'd go with me just to Check her out...

I can check out any girl at any time.

The girl I'm taking out is special...

[Lascar78]

well good for you. I'm sure you'll enjoy many years of successful Marvin-bashing no matter what happens

[AHF]

I'm not sure I buy your analogy, Diesel.

Food from a restaurant is much more predictable than NBA draft picks. Moreover, I don't think anyone viewed Deron Williams or Chris Paul (who is already injured) as being "Denny's" quality compared to Ruth's Crisp.

If you are going to go with a flawed food analogy, you should at least make them something like a comparison of Bones to Chops or something.

[Diesel]

Marvin is the highest pick we have ever had.

Marvin is the culmination of several years of tanking in the draft and getting rid of so-called good players.

Marvin was drafted ahead of Paul, Deron.

Marvin was drafted in spite of a logjam at the SF/PF position.

THEREFORE...

I have real expectations...

Now... Lascar, you may not. You may be the type of guy who likes to pull a Scooby Doo and Check things out... Put your money into investments and NOT expect anything back... Maybe you're just a good samaritan like that...

However, I think that for everything the Hawks have given up to get Marvin, he must meet some type of expectation... Not a fantasy expectation, but a real one...

You don't have one... then say so.

If you don't mind the Hawks just Neandering around from year to year eating mayonaise sandwhiches then Say so...

But I think that there are some fans like me who have heard Babcock say " in 4 yrs", waited, only to see him blow up the team and grab JJ, JR, JT, and Glover. Unlike you, we don't blindly follow anymore and praise for no reason.

I praise BK for drafting Josh & Josh.

I question him for passing on Josh Howard and taking Diaw.

I praise BK for trading Big Dog, REEF, THEO, and JT.

I question him for trading away Nazr.

When you get to where I am, there's not enough love to blindly follow.

[AHF]

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However, I think that for everything the Hawks have given up to get Marvin, he must meet some type of expectation... Not a fantasy expectation, but a real one...

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Agreed. Joe Smith was a drafting mistake. Kwame Brown was a drafting mistake. You may not want to fire a GM over a pick like that if the guy failed for unforeseeable reasons but I am not just willing to say "Michael Olowokandi had the highest potential in the draft so with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight he was still the best pick over other players like Vince Carter, Paul Pierce and Dirk Nowitzski."

[Wretch]

How can you realistically read that and respond with anything but a cop out? You may be an optimist or a pessimist, but you have SOME kind of expectation.

With basketball, the draft, our situation, and the Hawks especially...I think realistic expectations are clearly defined, whether or not you have any, even before you make the damn pick.

Hell, forget all the analogies. Forget the rhetoric. Forget the sarcasm...

You pick a guy in the sweet spot of the lottery, let alone a #2 pick, and I'm sorry, but expectations are pretty much set in stone. It differs from draft to draft. There is no LeBron or Tim Duncan or Magic...so do I expect as much. No. But I expect at a MINIMUM All-Star quality - perinnial or not.

Anything else is simply guarding yourself not to get that foot put back in your mouth if/when someone you could have had and maybe should have taken becomes much better than your own pick or if you sit here and say Williams is going to be great.

I am not afraid to put my expectations out there and perhaps put my foot in my mouth. I expect good things out of Marvin Williams, I expect him to be better than Al, and probably Smoove, and I pray that he turns out better than one of those great PGs that we could have had. Otherwise we made a mistake.

[Buzzard]

An all the positive resposes would have been a good choice. I think he will be better than all those options. And I think he is a future all-star. That would have been a good choice "future all-star" without a time frame or limit.

What happens if he makes the all star team his 3rd or 4th year. Deron and Paul do not make the all-star team but mwill is injured and never returns to form. Or he only makes three all star teams. Does that mean we blew it? I don't think so.

So to put a 3rd season on out is asking a lot. I mean are you talking seven straight all-star teams made if he plays for 10 years?

That's a hall of fame career, and that should have been a separate option. Other words, your option seemed like hall of fame all star and there was no all star option in between.

I think he will be an all star more than once (which is better than Harrington). But I do not know how many of them he will make (which may not be better than Chillz or Smoove).

When you start predicting hall of fame stuff you are getting way out there. I think I am being extremely confident just stating he will get more than one all star game.

Hell, Chillz and/or Smoove could end being the hall of famers and Marvin "just" a one or two time all star. Just cannot predict that stuff.

I do believe if you draft a all star player, no matter which pick you used, it is a great pick.

[Lascar78]

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I think he will be an all star more than once (which is better than Harrington). But I do not know how many of them he will make (which may not be better than Chillz or Smoove).

When you start predicting hall of fame stuff you are getting way out there. I think I am being extremely confident just stating he will get more than one all star game.

Hell, Chillz and/or Smoove could end being the hall of famers and Marvin "just" a one or two time all star. Just cannot predict that stuff.

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Exactly. Everybody is so into predicting careers and stats down to a tenth of a rebound per game (see Diesel's signature), because that's what all the loud mouthed idiots do on ESPN 24/7 (except for Wilbon). If Stephen A. Smith yells it loud enough it must be true. If Chad Ford writes it enough it must be true. If not, they'll just make up a new story to make you forget about it. Just like Diesel.

I'd rather be realistic about it, and consider the only thing we had control over, which is whether drafting Marvin over the PGs made sense at the time. I also think Marvin will be a consistent all star (5+ times) even though it might take him a while to grow into that player. I think there is a decent chance (30%?) that he could become a true superstar, and by that I mean a Duncan-Shaq-KG level player, not just a star like TMac, Dirk etc... But you have to factor in that while his shooting touch and his mindset are developped and polished, his overall game is still relatively raw. He doesn't have go to moves off the dribble or in the paint. Whenever you grab a player largely on potential, there is a bust risk. And there is a chance that he turns into Desmond Mason, a decent player who will never carry a team anywhere.

Making specific predictions doesn't make you smarter even if they do come true, it only shows that you're willing to make up things about what you don't know.

And again, it's not like I'm saying I expect nothing out of the guy. I'm asking you what you mean by expectation and Diesel deflected the question into a false analogy of food. I feel like this pick was the right one, no matter what happens.

-If you're asking what I expect out of Marvin for me not to be disappointed in our pick, that would be multiple all-star appearances

-If you're asking how good I expect Marvin to be at the very least, I'd say Desmond Mason with a better touch

Some interpret expectations to mean what you think the guy has to become to not be deemed a failure for being picked at #2. Some interpret expectations to mean what you think the guy is most likely to become. Some interpret it to be what you expect at a minimum out of him, in a worst case scenario.

Those are very different things

If Marvin is a 9 time all star, and Paul and Smoove are 10 time all-stars, I'll still be more than satisfied. I guess some here won't

[Gray Mule]

We, the Hawks fans, have waited so long it ain't even funny.

Finally, after our most terrible year, we earn {?} the

#1 pick in the draft, but, we loose that, too, when they

draw out whatever they draw and end up #2.

To me, it's not about, will our pick be an all star, year

after year and go to the Hall of Fame. It's not, will

this player be able to carry this team on his back.

That sounds great, sure.

What I hope and expect from him is that, because of him,

Atlanta becomes a much improved team. Because of him

being here, others are able to step up, improve their game

and make winning routine, game after game and not something

that is so rare, we here on Hawksquawk go bananas.

I expect from him the ability to lift others to new

heights. I expect him to be a part of the TEAM picture.

If we start winning and he doesn't make the all star

team, so what! It was a great pick and the right one.

We're winning now. We weren't doing that before he

came here.

Looking back and we find that he is untalented. We find

he is so selfish and doesn't understand the meaning of

the word, team. We discover that he is a troublemaker

and a pot head. Lazy beyond words.

Now, that would be more than enough reason to say, what

a dissapointment. We really thought we had something,

but this?

My expectations? I expect the team to be much improved

and I expect him to be A PART of the reason. If this

doesn't happen, then I will be dissapointed. After all,

it's all about the team winning, isn't it??

[emorystar]

Ok, lets be honest here. Marvin Williams has superstar ability. It's up to him if he fulfills that. Based on everything I read from teammates and coaches, the desire and work ethic is definately there. He's a smart, good kid. I think chances are high he'll fulfill it. The best comparison I have heard for him is Jamal Mashburn with freakish athletic ability. Josh Smith and Marvin Williams are the two best young SF in the game, and we got both of them. Exciting times in Philips Arena are upcoming. That's all I got to say about that.

[Diesel]

He can't.

He won't.

What's wrong Flipper..

I thought MWill was your guy after Bogut...

[emorystar]

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He can't.

He won't.

What's wrong Flipper..

I thought MWill was your guy after Bogut...

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If it was up to you, we would be stuck with Chris can't defend a lick Paul. Correct?

[Diesel]

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I never claimed to be sure he'd be a star. Potential is very different from what actually happens. Darius Miles had plenty of potential too. If he was risk free, Marvin would have gone #1, and we wouldn't be having this discussion about him at #2. I think he was easily the right pick at #2, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll live up to his potential.

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It sounds to me like Potential is simply something you can hide behind and be safe...

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If he was risk free, Marvin would have gone #1

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This is too funny. So what does us picking him at #2 mean?? That he has risk?

Great Lascar...

[Diesel]

If it were my choice, we'd have Deron Williams..

AND if we had him... I would still have expectations...

I wouldn't hide behind Potential that he may turn out or not...

That's BS.

Because he's the #2 pick OVER Freakin ALL, there MUST be some expectations.

Because we have traded away: Reef, Theo, Toine, Big Dog, Sura, Pryz, Nazr, JT, and others to get to this point...

There must be some expectations..

Actually, I don't expect us to be back in the top 3 next year...

[Lascar78]

Listen man, just because you see the world in black and white doesn't mean that it's so, or that I'm going to stoop down to your level. I don't pretend to be a fortune teller. And I don't think real GM's do either. BK picked him because he was easily the player with the best odds of becoming a true superstar, not because he went to see a psychic who told him he would in fact pan out and become a superstar. I don't know the future and neither do you, only I don't pretend to.

We took the player with the best odds of turning into a great player. That doesn't mean that he necessarily will. I know you don't understand odds at all, but surely you can understand that sentence.

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This is too funny. So what does us picking him at #2 mean?? That he has risk?

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Of course he was a risk. Any player who is drafted moreso for his potential than his accomplishments has a higher chance at failure. But they are often the players who turn out to be the true stars when it does work out. Have you ever watched the NBA before?

We took the high-risk, high-reward option in Marvin.

Seeing as you only seem to understand black-and-white analogies, let me put it to you this way. We're playing hold'em poker and we just went all-in with pocket aces pre-flop. We might or might not win depending on what the cards bring, but it doesn't change the fact that it was the right thing to do. What happens in the future doesn't change whether or not we made the right call in the present.

[Diesel]

Lascar...

Stop hiding behind BK.

At least KB can tell me how he feels and he doesn't give these Lifetime channel answers that you keep giving.

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Of course he was a risk. Any player who is drafted moreso for his potential than his accomplishments has a higher chance at failure. But they are often the players who turn out to be the true stars when it does work out. Have you ever watched the NBA before?

We took the high-risk, high-reward option in Marvin.

Seeing as you only seem to understand black-and-white analogies, let me put it to you this way. We're playing hold'em poker and we just went all-in with pocket aces pre-flop. We might or might not win depending on what the cards bring, but it doesn't change the fact that it was the right thing to do. What happens in the future doesn't change whether or not we made the right call in the present.

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At the worst you have a 65% chance of winning in that scenerio.. The point is... These things can be quantified...

Also.. Because he is High risk High reward, it doesn't mean that we don't have expectations of him as a Hawk. That's pure foolishness.

4 yrs down the road, if Marvin is one of the worst players in the league... Do we not look at BK and wonder if he's worthy of his job??

Of course we do.

I don't want to hear BK coming to the mic when we annouce our team and say...

"well, MWill here is our project that we took with the #2 pick overall. We hope that he turns out to be something special but if not, we always knew there was that possibility.".

Even sorry Jay Bilas has expectations..

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"In six years, we may look back on Marvin Williams as being the best player from this draft," ESPN commentator Jay Bilas said during Tuesday night's NBA draft telecast.

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[Lascar78]

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At the worst you have a 65% chance of winning in that scenerio..

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First off this is flat out wrong and thanks for once again showing that you don't understand odds. If nothing else, you're 50% against another pair of aces, lower than 50% if there are other players on top of that.

But anyhow... I could put odds on what I expect to happen, no problem. What I can't do is do what a psychic would do and pick one and say that's what will happen and answer that silly poll, especially when they involve guessing how other careers will pan out too. I'd say the following is how I see the odds of Marvin's career:

30% True, true Superstar, puts the franchise on his shoulders and makes us contenders

40% 5+ time all-star, 1st option, but not a true superstar

25% Desmond Mason with a better jumper. 1 time all-star or so. Solid player, but no real star.

5% True Bust. Longtime backup in the league, fails to step up to the challenge of heavy minutes. Has a nice jumper but fails to develop go-to moves

I wouldn't put anyone else in this draft as having higher than 10% odds of becoming a true superstar although I do think Bogut will be an all-star many, many times.

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4 yrs down the road, if Marvin is one of the worst players in the league... Do we not look at BK and wonder if he's worthy of his job??

Of course we do.

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Yes, I'm sure he would be fired, but it wouldn't necessarily be fair. He would be fired because this is a business and when things go south, heads have to roll even if they're not truly responsible. Much like many good coaches get fired just because something has to give. Firings are often just PR moves to calm the masses. When a project goes south, the manager is held responsible even if he didn't make any bad decisions at the time.