Belkin to be on 790 the zone... probably 8:45 AM

[TheDude]

Belkin has to be the single biggest dumbass when it comes to basketball knowledge i have ever heard of.

Calling Phnx owner to try to offer much less AND going over the GM?

Not understanding we have to overpay a bit due to our recent losing history?

Ruining his one chance of bball team ownership he has tried to get for so long?

Expecting us to be a top 3 losing team in two years?

[mudderfudder77]

In order to get a top three pick you don't need to be a top 3 losing team, only need to be in the lottery...

[JTFan31]

Yea and you know what

Imagine if Colangelo balks and goes for the Belkin offer of Diaw and 2nd rounder, then we will all sit here and say this guy is a great business man and we will all say that he is a genius.

[OGRat]

Not when he undercut his GM.

Its not about this deal right now, although I think it needs to go through at any cost for us to salvage some team respect. It's about our GM being able to go out and negotiate in good faith.

[Nicholasp27]

no

even if he manages to make our deal better this was still a BAD move

teams will be less willing to negotiate with bk when they know belkin may come back and make a hardball offer after a handshake deal is in place

that will hurt us much more than the protection on these picks

lose the battle win the war...changing these picks is not a checkmate move, so no point in losing positioning just to save a pawn

[TheDude]

of course...but come on.

[Lascar78]

how you like this signature dochawk?

[drzachary]

That's gorgeous, Lascar! I was working on a version myself in mspaint earlier, but it looks like crap compared to yours.

[phxsuns]

As a Suns fan who has gone through the full range of emotions over the JJ deal (disbelief, outrage, murderous rage with team management and JJ, grief, drinking binge, more murderous rage, then finally acceptance) I thought I'd weigh in with what the diehards over at phxsuns.net are thinking.

First, JJ's a great player. He can shoot, penetrate, create his own shot, he's got a developing in between game, he's a pretty good perimeter defender, and he can do a decent job of handling the point. And let's face it. . .skilled 6'8", 240lb guards don't grow on trees. We had high hopes that he would blossom into a capable sidekick for Amare as Nash and Marion aged.

However, locking in JJ at 70/6 puts a stranglehold on our cap maneuverability, and greatly increases the likelihood that we would have to deal Marion in the next couple of seasons. Furthermore, JJ at this point is NOT a max-caliber player. Last season was the first year that he showed any ability to maintain a high level of play over several games in a row, and he did so with Amare, Marion, and Nash attracting most of the defenses'attention. Also, he has shown over the years a tendency to became shy and lose his confidence. Not something you want from a guy with $70mil committed to him. However, as Suns fans, we recognized that he was an important piece of our championship aspirations because of his versatility, and his willingness and ability to log "iron man" minutes. Thus, although $70 mil is overpaying for the guy, you have to do it if you're the Suns if you really believe that the team can deliver a trophy at least once in the next 2-3 seasons.

Then, the Hawks come into the picture. They have to overpay for JJ as well, as they aren't exactly an attractive destination for top free agents. I can see how $70 mil over 5 years makes sense for the Hawks.

Then JJ states he WOULD RATHER play for the Hawks for the same contract(for reasons that noone can explain other than to conclude that the kid is completely irrational and delusional, no offense intended). Suns management wisely state that they will still match, but will allow him to try to work out a sign-and-trade.

That brings us to "the deal." The deal the Suns worked out with the Hawks is COMPLETELY one-sided in favor of the Suns. By giving up the 2 first rounders, the Hawks are severely compromising their ability to develop the young talent they will need to get to the next level in order to gamble on a player who we can't even be sure will earn his contract in the first place. I gotta say, I think the Hawks are making a deal, should it go through, that they will live to regret down the road. Especially considering that the frontloaded contract makes JJ virtually untradable for at least 3 years.

Bottom line: we're all very shocked and disappointed, but given JJ's bizarre behavior, dubious judgment, and bridge-burning, not many of us want him back at this point, and are hoping and praying that this deal goes through so that we don't have to bring him back after he broke the trust with his teammates.

The kid's a little nutty, but I hope he works out for you guys.

[mrhonline]

Quote:

---

By giving up the 2 first rounders, the Hawks are severely compromising their ability to develop the young talent they will need to get to the next level in order to gamble on a player who we can't even be sure will earn his contract in the first place.

---

What do future picks have to do with the development of Smith, Childress, Stoudamire, Harrington, Williams, and Pachulia (possibly)?

Those picks are in the future. Trading them affects nothing but the future.

[phxsuns]

Because all of those guys aren't sure bets. . .you need to have new talent coming in as you move down the road. Some players don't become who need them to be, some leave via free agency, some get injured, some become head cases, etc. You are giving up two picks that could easily yield a player equal to or better than JJ. For what? It's not like JJ is a player you can build a championship team around. You still need that Shaq/Amare/Duncan/KG guy (unless you have Larry Brown coaching you), and the only place you'll get a player like that is in the draft.

[mrhonline]

Quote:

---

You are giving up two picks that could easily yield a player equal to or better than JJ.

---

Maybe, maybe not. That's the whole point.

A bird in the hand...

[phxsuns]

Very true. . .a good argument can certainly be made for making the deal. If it were my team, though, I'd wouldn't give away the farm to get JJ.

[TheDude]

much much better than my quickfix...one day i should take the time to learn that stuff...awesome.

[KB21]

I disagree.

With the development of Childress, Smith, and Williams along with the addition of Johnson, I really doubt the Hawks will have a pick high enough that they could get a player the caliber of Joe Johnson.

There is a much greater chance that those picks will yeild a Joey Graham/Kris Humphries type than a Joe Johnson type.

[AHF]

(1) Belkin is right that it is too risky to only top 3 protect Atlanta's pick in 2007 (based on Diesel's post), IMO.

(2) Belkin is doing more damage than (1) warrants by undermining BK. Even though not protecting Atlanta's own pick beyond 4 is wrong, IMO, this is too much harm to the franchise to warrant this action, IMO.

[phxsuns]

Quote:

---

I disagree.

With the development of Childress, Smith, and Williams along with the addition of Johnson, I really doubt the Hawks will have a pick high enough that they could get a player the caliber of Joe Johnson.

There is a much greater chance that those picks will yeild a Joey Graham/Kris Humphries type than a Joe Johnson type.

---

Perhaps, but Johnson was a #10 pick. Steve Nash was a #15 pick. Shawn Marion was a #9, etc etc etc. There is talent to be found in the middle of the lottery, especially when it comes to swingmen and combo guards.

Also, Johnson is a proven commodity as a complimentary player on a team stacked with superior offensive talent. He is completely unproven as a cornerstone player who will be relied on to produce night in and night out, and to do so while playing a position that is not his strongest position. Prior to last season, JJ was still looking like a career roleplayer, and a semi-bust considering his immense potential. While he took a considerable step towards fulfilling that potential last season, the fact is that the Hawks are banking on his possessing a much deeper pool of untapped potential that will be realized in Atlanta.

So yes, you're right, the draft isn't a sure thing. But JJ isn't a sure thing either. . .not be a long shot.

[KB21]

He took steps towards stardom after the Marbury trade. He was putting up 20 ppg, 5 apg, and 5 rpg from the Marbury trade on, and that was without Nash and with an injured Stoudemire.

[phxsuns]

Quote:

---

He took steps towards stardom after the Marbury trade. He was putting up 20 ppg, 5 apg, and 5 rpg from the Marbury trade on, and that was without Nash and with an injured Stoudemire.

---

I agree with you that he is a wonderful player to have. I'm just dubious that he's the kind of player that a team can truly build around (and thus, one that a team should give up 2 first rounders for the privilege of paying him $70mil over 5 years) If he busts out like TMac, I'll tip my hat to him.

For what it's worth, after Marbs and Penny were dealt 37 games into 03-04, JJ averaged 20.9 ppg on .474 fg% in January with Amare out of the lineup for 19 days during the month. He went 18.3 ppg, .436 in Feb, 19.4, .458 in March, 16.1, .375 in April (all with Amare in the lineup).

[KB21]

He may not be the type of player you can build around, but he is the type of player that you can put with a young Marvin Williams and Josh Smith and have something to build upon.