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Who would you add to the top 50 all time

Diesel

By Diesel
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Diesel Grand Master

Diesel

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If you could replace 1 player on the top 50...

who would it be and who would you replace them with?

Just for your rememberance, here's the top 50..

THE 50 GREATEST PLAYERS IN NBA HISTORY

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Nate Archibald

Paul Arizin

Charles Barkley

Rick Barry

Elgin Baylor

Dave Bing

Larry Bird

Wilt Chamberlain

Bob Cousy

Dave Cowens

Billy Cunningham

Dave DeBusschere

Clyde Drexler

Julius Erving

Patrick Ewing

Walt Frazier

George Gervin

Hal Greer

John Havlicek

Elvin Hayes

Magic Johnson

Sam Jones

Michael Jordan

Jerry Lucas

Karl Malone

Moses Malone

Pete Maravich

Kevin McHale

George Mikan

Earl Monroe

Hakeem Olajuwon

Shaquille O'Neal

Robert Parish

Bob Pettit

Scottie Pippen

Willis Reed

Oscar Robertson

David Robinson

Bill Russell

Dolph Schayes

Bill Sharman

John Stockton

Isiah Thomas

Nate Thurmond

Wes Unseld

Bill Walton

Jerry West

Lenny Wilkens

James Worthy

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y2kenta Newbie

y2kenta

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Mine would probably be Dominique Wilkins for Paul Arizin. I'm not a big fan of the Warriors and his scoring was not that great. Sorry nova fans. Nique would be in.

Wilkins is not in top 50? Damn!

IMHO, that has really been one of the most damnable overlooks in sports. Nique was the Hawks and the Hawks were always there with (Jordan's) Bulls, (Bird's) Celtics, and (Isiah's) Pistons every year until he was traded. It's been a shame and very much undeserving.
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AHF Grand Master

AHF

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Mine would probably be Dominique Wilkins for Paul Arizin. I'm not a big fan of the Warriors and his scoring was not that great. Sorry nova fans. Nique would be in.

That is fair. Nique absolutely deserves to be in there and there are several people I could bump for him, including Arizin.

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Final_quest Grand Master

Final_quest

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Dominique definitely belongs.

You look at this list and there is a tendency to give to much credit to players who played on championship teams. In the Knicks case, a large market team that won a championship.

You mean to tell me Walt Frazier, Willis Reed, Earl Monroe, and DeBusschere are all top 50 players?

I think you could make the case that none of them are, but all 4, I think not.

I also wonder about Robert Parish. Sure he was on perhaps the greatest front court of all time, but do you think he would be on this list if he never played with Bird and McHale? Imagine if Parish played for Golden State his whole career.

Please explain how any team would prefer guys like Gail Goodrich, Paul Arizin, Bill Sharman, and Dave Cowens over Kobe, Garnett, AI, or Tim Duncan?

Like many lists, sometimes people get carried away with their nostalgia of the way things were, and overlook the fact that Dominique would school Gail Goodrich in no time.

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AHF Grand Master

AHF

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He is really really good, but 50 greatest? Sorry, I don't buy it. Would he have been better if he didn't have MJ? Not really, just looking at the stats in between the years when MJ left and then returned it only shows he would have just scored a few more points per game if he didn't play with MJ.

Others that I feel need to go are Arizin, Greer, Sam Jones, Sharman, Worthy, and Walton. Some of these guys were just scorers (like Worthy), others had too short of careers (Walton), and others were just overrated for whatever reason (like Sam Jones).

I do buy Pippen in there. He was great his one year in charge (which makes me think he could have been a successful #1 elsewhere in his prime) - I think he led his team in like 4 categories that season. He was a tremendous #2 as well and is one of the top forwards alltime in assists and I think ranks as one of the top Sfs all-time defensively. Just a stud all-around guy.

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Plainview1981 Mentor

Plainview1981

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He is really really good, but 50 greatest? Sorry, I don't buy it. Would he have been better if he didn't have MJ? Not really, just looking at the stats in between the years when MJ left and then returned it only shows he would have just scored a few more points per game if he didn't play with MJ.

Others that I feel need to go are Arizin, Greer, Sam Jones, Sharman, Worthy, and Walton. Some of these guys were just scorers (like Worthy), others had too short of careers (Walton), and others were just overrated for whatever reason (like Sam Jones).

No offense, but that's dumb. Remember the year MJ was out? The Bulls still won like 57 games with Scottie's second option being Toni Kukoc. He's probably a top 5 defensive players in NBA history, he was an 18-20PPG scorer in his prime, well above average passer, decent 3pt shooter, rebounded pretty well for a SF.

No question Scottie is a top 50 player of all time.

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Plainview1981 Mentor

Plainview1981

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Top 5 defensive player? Sorry, he was really really good but not top 5, maybe top 30. He was never DOPY, so you cannot even say he was the greatest defender in his era. He was really good though, 92-99 1st team all-defense and 91 and 00 he was 2nd team. However, All-Defense Teams are really based more on reputation, so personally I don't trust them. For example, John Stockton was never on the 1st team All-Defense, oh but he was in the top 10 in steals 15 times (88-95 top 4 in steals). Hell Stockton only made 2nd team All-Defense only 5 times."

Steals isn't a measure of defense. Stockton couldn't guard anybody the last 5-6 years of his career. Defensive player of the year means nothing. Theo won one... Is he a better defensive player than Scottie Pippen? So you can make a case that award is phoney.

"They went from 57 wins to 55 wins then the next season 47 wins. Both of those years they lost in the Eastern Semifinals. Decent 3 point shooter?"

He proved he could win without MJ. That's what you brought up. So what if they lost in the Semifinals... It was still a successful season. ESP when you consider the rest of Pippen's teammates. Nobody expects a team with Toni Kukoc as the second option to do all that much in the playoffs.

"but are you going to say he is better than say someone like Dominique?"

All Nique did was score points. Almost nothing else. Yeah, Pippen was a better player.

"

But back to Pippen, he only had 4 seasons with over 20 ppg,"

Magic Johnson only averaged 20PPG 4 times in his career.

How many times did you watch Scottie Pippen play?

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Final_quest Grand Master

Final_quest

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It's difficult to say. I don't think Pippen is as clear of a case as people make it sound. Defense is hard to quantify. We can also look at his post Chicago career, less than stellar.

He was no longer in his prime, but we are talking top 50 NBA of all time. Think of how Bird, Magic, Jordan, Kareem, Malone, and Stockton played when they were on the downside of their careers. None of them faded quite like Pippen.

However, he is 4th all time in career steals, and 23rd all time in career assists. Production like that from his position on the floor is quite impressive. So I give him a nod as top 50 all time.

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Plainview1981 Mentor

Plainview1981

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It's difficult to say. I don't think Pippen is as clear of a case as people make it sound. Defense is hard to quantify. We can also look at his post Chicago career, less than stellar.

He was no longer in his prime, but we are talking top 50 NBA of all time. Think of how Bird, Magic, Jordan, Kareem, Malone, and Stockton played when they were on the downside of their careers. None of them faded quite like Pippen.

However, he is 4th all time in career steals, and 23rd all time in career assists. Production like that from his position on the floor is quite impressive. So I give him a nod as top 50 all time.

Did any of them have back surgery?

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Lascar78 Newbie

Lascar78

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Bird faded. MJ faded, not quite as much but he's different because of the years off that helped keep him injury free. Magic is different because of HIV ending his career. Stockton retired at the right time, and Malone is one of a kind, he'll be in playing game at age 55.

I don't think how you fade down the stretch determines your worth. I look at how you played in your whole career up through your prime. He's top 50 in my book

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Plainview1981 Mentor

Plainview1981

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Larry Bird
DID
have back surgery. He also had foot surgery. And he didn't fade as much as everyone says he did. His last 3 seasons he was still putting up about 21 a game with 9 rebounds and 7 assists.

Stockton had knee surgery that sidelined him a third of a season, and after that surgery he continued to not miss a single game (413 straight).

Look at Scottie's numbers. As soon as he left Chicago he was about a 11-12 ppg, 4-5 apg, and 5 rpg. None of the other guys mentioned faded like that especially since those numbers are over the course of 6 seasons. Yet again let me reiterate I am not saying Scottie isn't good, I just don't think he would make my top 50 list.

1.Nobody ever said he was as good as Larry Bird...

2.Stockton lots of players have knee problems. Being athletic wasn't much of Stocktons game in the first place.

It was apart of Pippen's however.

He might not make your top 50.. But you don't have alot to backup it up with. He surely is better than a one One-dimensional scorer like Nique. Scorers are a dime a dozen...

But guys that can put up 18-20PPG 7RPG 6APG get lots of steals and be one of the best defenders in NBA history is rare.

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Plainview1981 Mentor

Plainview1981

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1.Nobody ever said he was as good as Larry Bird...

No, but you gave a list of players and said that none of them had back surgery...do you want to rescind your comment?

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2.Stockton lots of players have knee problems. Being athletic wasn't much of Stocktons game in the first place.

Yeah I guess because Stockton didn't jump high means he wasn't athletic...DID YOU EVER SEE HIM PLAY? He was extremely fast, made extremely sharp cuts, was agile on the court, and could turn on a dime. Just because he never dunked or jumped out of the gym doesn't mean he is athletic and he used his quickness in his game all the time. I used him as another example of the list of players that you said never occured injury troubles.

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one of the best defenders in NBA history is rare.

Where do you go off calling him one of the best defenders in the history of the NBA? He wasn't even close to being the greatest defender in his era. I would maybe call him top 5 in his era. You had Hakeem, Dikembe, Zo, Robinson, Payton, Rodman, and then I would probably have a toss up between Pippen, Ewing, Mookie, and Stockton.

I never said none of them. I asked a question. I thought Bird might have, but couldn't remember. But like I said, a good deal of Pippens game was built on athletic ability, Bird's was not.

Pippen was a good of a defender at the 3 as Payton was at PG. Surely better than Mookie Blaylock. I call him one of the greatest defenders in NBA history because he was in his Chicago days.

"Yeah I guess because Stockton didn't jump high means he wasn't athletic...DID YOU EVER SEE HIM PLAY? He was extremely fast, made extremely sharp cuts, was agile on the court, and could turn on a dime."

He still wasn't an athletic player. He wasn't extremely fast like a Kevin Johnson. There's a difference. He had Nash have the same quickness, but they aren't fast.
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