BK is making the critics look foolish!!!

[GoDawgs21]

Again and again you keep proving my point. WE DIDNT NEED PTS. we were 11th in the league in scoring last year, 28th in defense. Um, wonder which one we needed work on. How hard is it for you to understand that. You talking about offense ok your boy Roy is averaging only 7 more pts per game then Sheldon in 13 more minutes per game played. Taking 16 shots per game to do that I might add. Concievalbe if we had drafted him he is 6th man maybe gets 8 shots or half the pts. So at 11.8 per game he would be contributing 6 pts to this team. Shel in his 20 minutes per game is giving us 4 pts. I'll even give you off the bench playing behind JJ where there are no minutes, hardly when you gotta get Chill in too. Maybe Roy gets 8 per game off the bench. So are you willing to give up almost 7 rebs per game which keep postions alive and give us post defense for 4 more pts per game. How many offense boards does Shel get that led to points? He is top rookie in off reb with 16 thats little over 2 per game. Thats two extra shots to get those 4 points. You want to win this year. Shel was your pick. With the money spent on Lue and Speedy Roy was no PG here so he competes for backup with Chill, that does nothing ot change your overall team. So whats the point of picking him.

I said this before we needed post d and reb. so why go out and get something we already have to play behind our best player?

[Sothron]

So just so you are on record, son, you would trade Tim Duncan for Jeff Foster? I mean its SO OBVIOUS how great a player Jeff Foster is because he hustles a little and grabs some boards. It SO makes up for his TOTAL lack of offense, passing and blocking.

Want to compare Shellhead or Foster's other numbers over 48 minutes to other players? I'm sure there's NO WAY guys like KG and Duncan beat them out in other areas. That would be like not doing any research before making a post that made me look like an idiot.

You heard it here first on hawksquawk folks: Jeff Foster is the GOAT because he avered 9.2 rebounds one season for 25 minutes a game or so.

[mrhonline]

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Yes, Jeff Foster is someone I know I spend nights dreaming about in my little Soth bed to have on our team. I'm sure Spurs fans would trade Duncan in a heartbeat for Foster.

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No, but I can guarantee they'd love to have Foster playing NEXT to Duncan. In fact, there are few players who would actually be a better complement to Duncan (Elton Brand being an obvious one).

He's a very underrated big man.

[Sothron]

But you wouldn't trade Duncan for Foster would you?

[GoDawgs21]

ijust love how you go straight for picking the MVP. My only point was showing the reb. statistic we got worked every game last year in reb. Thats why I posted that. You simply look at pts and offensive numbers. Sorry but thats not all there is to players and winning basketball. The pistons play d and reb. your favorite team in rebuilding got skiles as coach who preaches reb and d. Every team would love a guy that just gets rebs. So i guess Ben Wallace is wrothless I mean [censored] he avg. 4.5 pts per game that championship year. Should probably get a guy like Al to get you 16 pts in his spot I mean thats 12 pts per game you gain. you dont get it we have the scorers, in JJ and Marvin when he comes back. Zaza and Smith are 3 and 4 option. Everytime would love to trot a guy out there that can get you 7 rebs on lmiited minutes that doesnt take shots away from the guys that should be shooting. I guarntee Kobe or Lebron would pay out of their own pocket for a guy liek Foster. He shoots, they crash, they kick back out, and he can shoot again.

I guess there is no room on championship teams for hustle rebound guys, err Rodman, Wallace, Haslam until recently didnt have O, yep dont see it working if you can't score.

[Popeye]

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But you wouldn't trade Duncan for Foster would you?

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Nobody would do that, but you are saying things about Foster like he is garbage and NBDL material, just so you can blast Shelden, because Foster is ahead of him.

and Foster averaged over 9 reb per game in 2 straight seasons in limited minutes so i would say he is a proven Nba rebounder.

[Sothron]

And you are not getting my point at all that I have explained several times at this point. If we wanted to address needs we should have drafted Deron Williams, who I might add no one here wants to talk about for obvious reasons, Chris Paul or Raymond Felton in 2005. That would have filled a real need for us. Then in 2006 if we wanted to draft another need we could have still traded DOWN and drafted Shellhead. He was a mid teen first rounder at best on everyone's draft board until BK made his idiotic promise to him...without even working him out or anyone else around that pick to see if they were worth it.

Lo Down is providing the kind of gritty interior D that we need. I have never disagreed that getting post defense and rebounding was not needed. I posted in another thread somewhere that Al Harrington is not a good low post defender and his subtraction alone helps our team defense. That point has been proven correct.

But we could have addressed an even more glaring need (IMO) in 2005 by drafting a franchise point guard. Then we could have still signed Lo Down or traded down to still draft Shellhead or drafted someone else or traded the pick. We had ample chances to do more than what BK did and that is even WITH the ownership fiasco in place.

[BusBoyIsBack]

I can't believe there are clowns actually denying the impact Shelden's had on this team defensively. No one has taken a dump on us in the post yet this season and we have faced several guys who are capable of doing that to us especially with our front court from last season.

Right now, our defensive ranking is one of the best in the league. Last year we were terrible in every single defensive category especially in the post. This year not the case.

But I guess since Shelden isn't an offensive juggernaut it doesn't matter to some people. These people don't seem to understand how the game of basketball works.

[Sothron]

I have never said Foster was garbage or NBDL material. Far from it. He's a very good hustle player and rebounder. He's not someone I would start since he has zero offensive game nor is he really that good of a low post defender and he's no block threat but he'd get the minutes he's getting from the Pacers from me.

I just think, and I don't think this is asking too much here, to have more than that from a #5 pick in the draft. We could have traded down and still gotten Shellhead and I would be fine with correctly using a resource for a product. Mismanaging your resources when you are a team like the Hawks is not smart. I don't care if Shellhead leads the NBA in rebounds per 48 minutes or his EPR rating is the best in the league. We could have gotten more from the resource that was used to get him.

[GoDawgs21]

First of all get your facts straight Boston said if Shel fell to them at 8 they would take him. That means if 6/7 arent willing to trade with you you have to take him if thats who you want.

I have posted this before but you just dont get it. In your fantasy world you make this trade and taht trade, well it doenst always happen in real life. Furthmore look at any predraft predictions Shell was no lower then 11 in any of them. You have the preconvied notion of what he is and what he was going into the draft. Go back and look.

Secondly last year we didnt need to draft based on need. We still needed talent. Even Chad Ford who bashes the Hawks like its his job, said Marvin was the most talented player in the draft. When you have 13 wins you accumalte talent. You double your wins, you rookie from last year looks ready to break out as your number 2 option. There are several FA servicable PG's, no big men beside LO that wouldnt costs you your entire bank. So you draft the best defensive player available, due to need. There are PG's like Speedy, Banks etc taht NBA expeirence and can give a lift, but no true big men. How hard is that to get?

[terrynoonan]

I get it GD. One of the reasons we are considered to have horrible fans is stuff like thinking Salim is important, or J.T is anything more than a 3rd option. I get it. I still play though.

[GoDawgs21]

Tell me from looking at these where you see Shell dropping to the mid teens:

9th overall talent:

http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/Draft/2006/

9th to the Warriors:

http://probasketball.about.com/od/nbadraft...ockdraft061.htm

10th:

http://www.wkyc.com/sports/sports_article.aspx?storyid=53920

10th talent:

Key Stats: 17.6 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 59.5 FG%, 3.6 bpg (4th in nation)

If Williams couldn't score a point, he should still be an NBA first-round draft pick based on all the other things he brings to the table. But this guy is no Ben Wallace. He has excellent footwork and agility, knows well which offensive moves work best for him and sticks with them. He has some limitations and may never be the scorer that Elton Brand is, but there's no doubt with his improved free-throw shooting that he can score in double figures in the NBA. When you throw in his shot-blocking and rebounding prowess, Williams will likely be a lottery pick. Williams is an unerringly consistent player. What you see is what you get. Though he does not have the freakish athletic ability of a Kevin Garnett, and exceptionally athletic big men give him trouble, he's got more than enough tools in the tool belt to succeed in the NBA. Williams has the look of a player who will log 12 or 13 productive years in the NBA.

I can go on and on and on. So you say we could have traded based on everything Shel was a top 10 pick at worst. So that means you have 4 teams to trade with. This draft wasn't stacked after the top 3. So if your GS at 10 the Hawks say we want to trade. GS has to give up something. Is moving up 5 spots worth another 1st rd pick, 2nd rd pick, a player??? In some years like 2003 with 5 top players bron,melo,wade,bosh etc yeh it mgith be worth it.

But if your GS why in this draft. There are 3 players about equal, Roy, Foye, Gay one of the three is bound to fall to you if you want a guard. If you want a big man Shel or O'bryant will be there. Everyone knew Marcus stock was dropping. So any position you want is available. So why do you say ok I'll trade another pick to move up 5 spots when most likely there will be a guy I want in this spot. I cohse the ten spot because thats where we would have more leverage the 6,7,8,9 spots the clsoer you get the less they are willing to move up just one spot or two. So now think and I mean really think. Why would any team move up in this draft. Your theory of trading down sounds great, but if you look at it, it just wasnt a deep enough draft to do it.

So no team is listening to a trade in the top 10, and its reported the 7th pick will take your guy if available. Gee is it hard to understand why we took him.

My point is you have this feeling Shell is this and that. Same with our argument about Chill the other day. All you bring to the table is your humbly poor opinion on basketball. You havent once shown me anything to suport your stance. I've shown you what other GM's,sportwriters, etc think. I've shown you stats, other team lineups etc. I have sourced every bit of info I have said. Your source is "uh Shel is bad we could have got more I swear, I was in the green room at the draft I know we could have traded."

[Sothron]

You bring facts? Kinda like your starting lineup rosters that were completely wrong? You mean like that? Or when I told you that there are at least 3-4 teams and I mean at LEAST 3-4 teams that would start Chill and the facts showed I was right?

You mean like that?

If you want to bring it to me you need to up your game. Big time. All you are doing is regurgitating every pro-BK argument that was on this board and at other sites long before you started to post on the internet. If you can't see how BK has mishandled three drafts, three offseasons and virtually every trade he's made then I (honestly) pity you. You can sit there at your work comp and play internet warrior all you wish but it does not change the fact BK is considered, easily, one of the worst GMs in the entire NBA by the media and other teams.

And btw draft express and nbadraft.net, the most widely regarded draft sites on the net, both had Shellhead as a mid teen pick. All of the media and scout people had him in that range. Boston saying they would have taken him when they already have Al Jefferson and Perkins and just traded for Theo and already had Kandi man is so absurd I don't even know how to respond to it. Its about as believable as that one GM whose a buddy with Zeke who said they would have taken Blackmond if he didn't. Yeah. Right.

I've never said Shellhead is a bad player btw. All I have maintained is that we could have gotten him for a lower value and he is a replacable commodity. Lo Down is doing exactly what we need and we didn't waste the 5th pick in the draft on him. Crazy world eh?

[GoDawgs21]

How bout a source for that, nobody else remembers that. I show you three sources supporting my argument and your response, is uh I remember they said it, cant find it bt I know it. Secondly, first you said Chill would start for half the teams, then you listed 10 teams, then i showed you wtih link to espn th starting 2 and 3 for all teams. You go back and pick the most obscure sigh possible that only changes 2 or 3 of them. You keep saying luther head, but your own sight had him as 3rd string. Then finally you say 3 or 4. So which is it so many to choose from.

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....r=175795&Forum=,All_Forums,&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=175584&Search=true&where=&Name=618&daterange=&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post175795

dont make me do this but ok.

You point out all the teams you think chill can start for.

Quote:

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At least you managed to avoid too many personal attacks in this post.

Teams that have inferior starting SGs to Chill right now:

Bobcats

Denver

Houston

Indiana

Orlando

New Orleans

Sacramento

Toronto

Washington

You could also make arguments for Utah, Phoenix,Portland, New York, Minnesota, Memphis and Boston. Obviously some of those teams are dependent on how rookies or very young guys pan out but you get my point.

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my pointing out my list and source notice people have heard of espn.

Quote:

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I need to do HW, please use this to do YOUR HW. I will give you the link to Houston's, but as the starting depth chart g/f in sg postion is Tmac. So why dont you look at something before you speak. I used these exact depth charts to use for my names. Next, Chill is a more natural 3 or the G/F position since he isnt as quick as most 2's to guard on defense. Thus he is a decent g/f but to call him a sg is a stretch. You were the one that said someone would give him a shot at the SG. So there for his skills are a bit deminshed as a 2. Stevenson, yeh defensive stopper. Yeh had 18 and 4 tonight. What's Chillz career high they play the same roles over the year. But please go through team by team on this depth chart list before you try and call me out. Cause sir you are wrong. But thats about par for the course for you the past several days.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/depth?team=hou

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you using a fantasy based site (notice they place players in startng lineups as to what their "FANTASY" status is rotoworld is for fantasy league info:

Quote:

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http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/Depth_NBA.aspx?sport=NBA

Read it. If you can look at the actual depth charts as they stand right now and tell me Chill can't start for AT LEAST 3 other teams then you are insane. Or are you seriously telling me you'd take Stevenson or JR Smith or Luther Head or an extremely small backcourt in Knight/Felton with one of them starting out of necessity at the wrong position? I mean please.

I don't know what prescriptions you are currently not taking but I have never "flip flopped" on anything related to the Hawks. You keep saying I called Chill a "bust" and I keep repeating that I never said that, I just said we could have taken a better player AT THAT spot. Of course you are already proven guilty of literally making up [censored] that people say when you tried to come up with some crap about what I said earlier about my feelings for the team so I'm not exactly surprised you are now trying to "Clintonize" something else I've supposedly said.

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Me still showing you actual game box scores with those players at that postion:

Quote:

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just so you can get it out of your silly little head, you keep bringing up luther head, even the depth charts you showed me dont have him starting. Look at the box score from last night or any game this year. TMac and Pejas play the role of starting 2 guard. With Battier and Mason play the respective 3 spots on those rosters. That's why I gave you the benefit of the doubt in my previous response and listed the atarting 2's and 3's for each team you gave to show he prob wouldnt start over any of them. Notice in the box score you boy Luther head who you mention over and over plays Chill same roel getting 29-30 minutes of the bench. Still not starting. So now which 2 teams were going to be fighting over our bad pick to give him tons of money when guys like Prince dont even get offered that much. I love Chill and he is vital to our team, but he isnt the type of player that gets lured away by a huge contract.

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/gamecenter/b...0061108_HOU@MIL

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you finally getting down to your 3 or 4 :

Quote:

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I disagree. There are at least three of four teams that if they had him, Chill would be their starting 2 guard (possibly 3 as well) over what they have now. I am worried that won't be able to keep him once his rookie contract expires.

You are confident we can. Guess what here? I hope you ARE right. I don't want to lose Chill and the flexibility he gives us off the bench.

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So who flip flops, provides no evidence, and can't back anything up.

[Guest Walter]

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Roy - BK stated in a radio interview that a lot of press people get excited over players but they don't have all the information. He went on to talk about a player with a bad foot. I assumed it was Aldridge... however, Roy went down.

Quote:

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An MRI on Monday revealed that Roy has an impingement in his left talus (ankle bone), according to a release on the Blazers' Web site late Tuesday afternoon. An impingement occurs when inflammation, bone spurs or fluid buildup causes a tendon to rub against a bone, and can be the result of a previous injury -- such as an ankle sprain -- according to emedicine.com.

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Could he have been talking about Roy?

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Foot "impingements" (now, not at the time of the draft) are probably the lamest reason to not draft a player ever brought up in the history of any forum anywhere, ever (have I already stated "ever"? I'm working for effect here). Make the man an orthotic that corrects heel pronation/inversion, pulsed ultrasound for healing, give him a week if he needs it, but don't make a mockery of yourself with emedicine gobbledegook.

You can't make an argument based upon performance because Roy is whooping up on SW.

Anyhow, if you are going to question a player's NBA capacity say as a Pf. Look at his height (6'7 1/2"), (short) vertical reach, and overall (lack) of athleticism. That tells you more than an "itis" (inflammation) tells you about anything ever.

Sorry, that was funny.

W

[Guest Walter]

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Some are looking at Shelden's stats as a mean of determining whether or not he is playing well. Well, Shelden is probably never going to be a big time stat stuffer with the exception of rebounds. I don't think some have noticed that Shelden is getting better with each game. Against Toronto, Shelden had 8 points and 6 rebounds in 14 minutes. He's averaging 5.6 RPG in right around 18 minutes per game. His per 40 minute rebounding numbers are right around 13 per game. He has his field goal percentage up to 47% after starting the season 1 for 10 from the floor. It's obvious to anyone that watches the games that when he's on the floor, the defense seems to flow much better and the rotations are better. He has done a good job of harassing the man he is guarding, and he gets a lot of chippy fouls called on him.

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Any and everything you say about SW is laughable as you once insisted he was the worse of the possible prospects for the Hawks, inverted your position for him and against Foy and Roye after BK drafted him, and now continue to suppport BK (ehem) I mean SW.

If there was a way to support BK without you costing yourself your integrity, you trampled is long ago.

W

[Yeti]

The list is crap but I like it because Deke is on top. My favorite NBA player - a class guy.

[Yeti]

Sorry Walter, I disagree. I'm a big Roy fan too and think he'll be an all-star, but if you aren't playing you aren't whooping on anyone. So I think Sheldon wins this week by default.

[Sothron]

A source for what? Be more specific.

Your depth charts are WRONG. Period. I don't know if you watch any games besides the Hawks but watch other teams and tell me with a straight Josh Childress couldn't start for at least 15 teams at either the 2 or the 3. The only reason you won't agree with that is because your internet warrior emo feelings might get hurt. Oh noez!!

Get ready to go emo in your blog:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/bask...aft1/index.html

Gee where is Shellhead in SPORTS ILLUSTRATED first mock draft pre-BK promise? You can't say SI is some "obscure" sports reference can ya? Let's see! Is he five? six? seven? eight? nine? ten? eleven??? Wow can you say twelve!

SI again closer to draft after the "promise" was leaked:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writ...raft/index.html

Read the blurb about Shellhead: "No promises have been made, but he's a solid big man ready to contribute; could drop out of lottery if Atlanta doesn't grab him."

Reread that. He was projected right before the damn draft to FALL OUT of the lottery if the Hawks didn't grab him!

Now to be fair and impartial some mocks looked like this:

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/9459496

The ones that had Shellhead in the top ten had him going 8 to Houston or 9 to GS. No one had him going to Boston that I saw. I can't even honestly think of a reason why Boston would draft him other than as a contingency of a trade going down with their big men.

And about Houston: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/hou/depthchart

I don't know why you keep bringing up Luther Head but last season he was playing 28 minutes a game either starting or spending significant time at either 1 or 2. I'd rather have Chill over Bonzi Wells any day of the week and I think if you asked JVG he would say the same thing.

I have not flip flopped once. YOU are the one who cooked up a lie and tried to pass it off as something I said (I note you still never apologized for that but I forget emo internet board warriors are above apologizing for lying) and then said that Chill essentially wasn't good enough to start for ANYONE in the NBA and would basically be lucky to stay a Hawk. What.the.[censored].ever. You then did a 180 and said Chill was a GREAT pick for us not just good but GREAT and you wouldn't have wanted anyone else besides him.

So which is it mr. flipflopper? You either think Chill is better than guys we KNOW are starting for their teams no matter which website you look at OR you think he's basically a role player off the bench whose never good enough to start.

You can't have it both ways. Or you can but you can expect me to call you out on it.

I keep bringing up facts like this if you need more "sources". Oh yes here's a few more just for fun. Remember that time when I said most media guys consider BK a horrible gm?

http://www.hoopsvibe.com/nba/nba-articles/...rs-ar35523.html

Look at what they say about his worst transaction. I think someone told someone about this?

http://www.hoopshype.com/general_managers/billy_knight.htm

Someone else not named Chad Ford is not a BK fan:

http://www.blackathlete.net/artman/publish...cle_01287.shtml

You know, I can keep going here, but now that I think about I'm really struggling to find ANY positive view, story or blurb about Knight from people who cover the NBA. Even Chris Paul said during the Team USA stuff this summer he was shocked the Hawks didn't draft him. BK is one of the main reasons those guys take shots at the Hawks all the time because the man's record is so putrid in his career it defies any kind of defense.

[gsuteke]

Quote:

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Quote:

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Roy - BK stated in a radio interview that a lot of press people get excited over players but they don't have all the information. He went on to talk about a player with a bad foot. I assumed it was Aldridge... however, Roy went down.

Quote:

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An MRI on Monday revealed that Roy has an impingement in his left talus (ankle bone), according to a release on the Blazers' Web site late Tuesday afternoon. An impingement occurs when inflammation, bone spurs or fluid buildup causes a tendon to rub against a bone, and can be the result of a previous injury -- such as an ankle sprain -- according to emedicine.com.

---

Could he have been talking about Roy?

---

Foot "impingements" (now, not at the time of the draft) are probably the lamest reason to not draft a player ever brought up in the history of any forum anywhere, ever (have I already stated "ever"? I'm working for effect here). Make the man an orthotic that corrects heel pronation/inversion, pulsed ultrasound for healing, give him a week if he needs it, but don't make a mockery of yourself with emedicine gobbledegook.

You can't make an argument based upon performance because Roy is whooping up on SW.

Anyhow, if you are going to question a player's NBA capacity say as a Pf. Look at his height (6'7 1/2"), (short) vertical reach, and overall (lack) of athleticism. That tells you more than an "itis" (inflammation) tells you about anything ever.

Sorry, that was funny.

W

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Walt you should be sorry. I've been the witness of some pointless condascending posts but this may be the king of them all............ well no maybe not but

you could have done better than that if you wanted to go "negative Nancy" on us.