BK worst GM of all time?

[Packfill]

Has there ever been a GM whose teams have a combined won lost record worse than BK? The combined won/lost records of his Atlanta and Memphis teams is pretty bad.

[mrhonline]

It was basically two expansion teams...

[vdunkndunk]

You may be right about the record, but if Phil Jackson had never coached a team other than the Hawks for the last two years, he would have a terrible record too.

Just look at what happened to Larry Brown in Detroit.

BK's vision ended up working fairly well in Memphis...they made the playoffs a couple times in the West with his players right after he left.

But we'll see what happens to the Hawks. My guess is that he'll get canned after too much futility, only to see the Hawks make the playoffs a year or two later with JJ, Marvin, and Smoove leading the way.

[Guest]

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BK's vision ended up working fairly well in Memphis...they made the playoffs a couple times in the West with his players right after he left.

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What? The year he was fired, they still sucked. It took Jerry West a full year to turn around the mess that BK left (Sidney Lowe, Ike Austin, blah blah...). The players that were left from when BK was GM were just lottery picks, those are very hard to screw up so I don't see where you can praise BK for picking lottery players who stayed around long enough on a team to actually become good.

And to answer the original question, I cannot think of any other GM that would possibly have a worst combine record in all the seasons he has been GM (it has been over SIX YEARS!). There may have been worse records in a shorter period of time and in a sport that doesn't play as many games as NBA (I am thinking of Matt Millen, he may have a worse winning % in less years, but not by much). BK has a bad record, correction a ridiculously laughable record that could be achieved even with a group of retards running a franchise. To paraphrase Parcells, "you are what your record is".

[DJlaysitup]

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BK's vision ended up working fairly well in Memphis...they made the playoffs a couple times in the West with his players right after he left.

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What? The year he was fired, they still sucked. It took Jerry West a full year to turn around the mess that BK left (Sidney Lowe, Ike Austin, blah blah...). The players that were left from when BK was GM were just lottery picks, those are very hard to screw up so I don't see where you can praise BK for picking lottery players who stayed around long enough on a team to actually become good.

And to answer the original question, I cannot think of any other GM that would possibly have a worst combine record in all the seasons he has been GM (it has been over SIX YEARS!). There may have been worse records in a shorter period of time and in a sport that doesn't play as many games as NBA (I am thinking of Matt Millen, he may have a worse winning % in less years, but not by much). BK has a bad record, correction a ridiculously laughable record that could be achieved even with a group of retards running a franchise. To paraphrase Parcells, "you are what your record is".

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These Atlanta folks are afraid to fire "Blacks" - which is stupid IMO - I only knew one true "Black" and he was from the islands - black as coal - good friend of mine - it was in the Navy. He liked me (as a friend) and I liked him likewise.

We had some good times together chasing girls.

[Packfill]

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BK's vision ended up working fairly well in Memphis...they made the playoffs a couple times in the West with his players right after he left.

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What? The year he was fired, they still sucked. It took Jerry West a full year to turn around the mess that BK left (Sidney Lowe, Ike Austin, blah blah...). The players that were left from when BK was GM were just lottery picks, those are very hard to screw up so I don't see where you can praise BK for picking lottery players who stayed around long enough on a team to actually become good.

And to answer the original question, I cannot think of any other GM that would possibly have a worst combine record in all the seasons he has been GM (it has been over SIX YEARS!). There may have been worse records in a shorter period of time and in a sport that doesn't play as many games as NBA (I am thinking of Matt Millen, he may have a worse winning % in less years, but not by much). BK has a bad record, correction a ridiculously laughable record that could be achieved even with a group of retards running a franchise. To paraphrase Parcells, "you are what your record is".

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This is the thing. Even when you do factor in that the team was going to fully rebuild with young players (which assumes a bad record), there is no possible way the team could have lost fewer games then it has regardless of the moves made after trading away SAR, JT, Big Hog and Theo.

[sinctybldh]

No. He has been given time to rebuild this team and it looks like a colossal failure to this point. We need a GM that knows how to assemble a team.

[Guest Walter]

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Has there ever been a GM whose teams have a combined won lost record worse than BK? The combined won/lost records of his Atlanta and Memphis teams is pretty bad.

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No matter what the records say, Isaiah Thomas looks to be the worst GM. He loses at the same clip and has the highest payroll.

BK is bad, however, real bad. People here have always wanted to believe in him. Perhaps because he made the difficult but obvious decision to gut and rebuild this team and whatever hope/homerism fans may assign BK as perceived leader of the franchise they love, but it's been two years too long worth of excuses for his wrong-headed ideology and bone-headed decisions.

Doesn't have to be the worst GM to justifying he be fired immediately. Wish it would happen.

W

[Packfill]

You are right. Babcock was worse.

[Sothron]

Yeah all Pete Babcock did was give us several fifty plus win teams and an extremely consistent playoff team. Knight with his inability to break THIRTY WINS has given us so much more.

[AHF]

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Yeah all Pete Babcock did was give us several fifty plus win teams and an extremely consistent playoff team. Knight with his inability to break THIRTY WINS has given us so much more.

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If you handed a monkey a team with Dominique Wilkins, Moses Malone, Doc Rivers, Kevin Willis, Spud Webb and others they could give us a consistent playoff team.

No GM in the history of sports has done a worse job drafting than Pete Babcock.

On the plus side, his history with free agents and trades was not perfect but was much, much better. That translates into a team that can tread water but never really take it to the next level because they aren't developing any young talent. It also translates into a team that is like a small athletic two guard. When things are going well, the player looks great. However, when the player gets too old and loses his athletic advantage the wheels come off because there is nothing else to rely on. When the Hawks blew that team up, they had no core of good young talent to build around and the wheels really came off.

I would never hire Pete Babcock to run my team. I would put a mock draft on a board and throw darts at it and hit an equal level of success (or possibly better).

[Sothron]

And again his record as general manager is somewhere between "ungodly better" and "so much better it defies description" than the piss poor job Knight has done. His record as a general manager speaks volumes of his ability. The only knock on Babcock was his inability to draft well and to get the "last piece" to the 90's team to possibly win a title.

Knight's tenure in Memphis and Atlanta is so laughably bad that you can not compare it.

[hawkman]

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Yeah all Pete Babcock did was give us several fifty plus win teams and an extremely consistent playoff team. Knight with his inability to break THIRTY WINS has given us so much more.

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True indeed. Everyone bashes Babcock but gives BK what amounts to a free pass. I know that Babcock made the worst trade in Hawks history, but at least the team continued to win after that. Don't get me wrong, BK has made some shrewd moves but he also has made some pretty bad decisions. He's great at making moves that dump salary to get your team under the cap, but he's not that good at anything else. He's terrible at PR and is pretty condescending to the fans. His draft night decisions often leave you disappointed. The fact that we telegraphed our pick weeks before the draft when we could have gotten Shelden AND Luther Head left me wondering whether we've been giving this guy too much credit. We didn't do enough to get in on the Iverson deal which could have reinvigorated this tired franchise. He makes it hard to get excited about the Hawks anymore. Has anyone else noted that things have gotten so bad that people actually get excited to hear that we signed the likes of a Speedy, Lo Wright or a Medvedenko? Don't any of you find that kind of pathetic? But a lot of those gripes are kinda superficial. A GM should be judged by the product on the floor. The team as it stands now is his "vision", with the coach and players pretty much hand picked by him. The bottom line is his "team" is far from successful and borderline competitive in a weak Eastern Conference.

[AHF]

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And again his record as general manager is somewhere between "ungodly better" and "so much better it defies description" than the piss poor job Knight has done. His record as a general manager speaks volumes of his ability. The only knock on Babcock was his inability to draft well and to get the "last piece" to the 90's team to possibly win a title.

Knight's tenure in Memphis and Atlanta is so laughably bad that you can not compare it.

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"Ungodly better?" I can't agree with that at all. Give BK a team that just made the playoffs with Dominique, Moses, Willis, Doc, etc. and he will make the playoffs, too.

I would hire BK before I hired Babcock. Babcock didn't have an "inability to draft well" -- he was the worst drafter in the history of professional sports (certainly in NBA history).

Babcock inherited prime rib and handed BK a pile of maggot-infested, rancid meat. It isn't a surprise to me that Babcock was able to cook up a better tasting dinner.

BK has clearly not shown himself to be a top GM to date. However, I still rate his performance better than Babcock (who also was not the worst GM in history). That may be damning with faint praise but it is what it is.

[Sothron]

I needed that laugh at work, thanks. If you seriously think a general manager who over two teams has yet to produce a THIRTY WIN TEAM is better than a general manager who produced several fifty win teams who consinstently made the playoffs...'nuff said about that insanity.

It is not possible for me take a comment like that seriously or to respond to it without being overly sarcasitc or derisive so I will leave it at that. If consistently fielding teams that can not even win thirty games in an eighty two game regular season is your mark of greatness then you must be a gigantic Knight fan.

[gutz]

Yeah Babcock is a real good GM. He brings in total bums like Glenn Robinson, Rider and made some of the worst draft picks I've ever seen and pretty much ruined the Hawks as we had ZERO talent from the draft and a bunch of overpaid bums like Robinson, Rider, Shareef, Ratliff and so on. DO you realize this idiot traded Nique for NOTHING. One Danny Manning who left the next year because he was a FA. That just baffles me that Babcock did that trade. What a joke! He BADLY put the Hawks in extreme debt and frankly ruined this franchise for the next 10 years after he left. BK had to come in and TOTALLY REBUILD through the draft because this franchise was so in debt and had ZERO young talent. YOur insane if you thing Babcock is better than any other GM in the history of the NBA. OH yeah he traded Steve Smith and Mutombo too for more bums. BK is bad but no where near as bad as Babcock. BK's two stints so far as GM in Memphis and Atlanta have been rebuilding projects not walking into a playoff contender like Babcock did only to then ruin the franchise

[Sothron]

lol more laughter at work. Thanks guys! A pure [censored] GM like Knight who can't even break THIRTY WINS IN A SEASON is better than a consistent playoff GM! ROFLMAO!

Quick where's Jim Paxson? Can we bring him on board? How about Scott Layden? MY GOD so much TALENT out there we can bring in to help Knight in his goal for THIRTY WINS! ROFL!

[AHF]

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lol more laughter at work. Thanks guys! A pure [censored] GM like Knight who can't even break THIRTY WINS IN A SEASON is better than a consistent playoff GM! ROFLMAO!

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A trained monkey could win games as a GM with the team Babcock inherited.

A trained monkey with a dart board and a mock draft from ESPN could draft better than Babcock did.

Babcock record in other areas is mixed but much better and did allow the team to tread water until the lack of young talent caught up with them (trades were mixed like Nique trade; Willis trade; Mookie trade; Rider trade; etc. and FA was mixed with acquisitions like Mutombo; Norman; etc.)

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The bottomline is you are comparing apples to oranges if you are comparing a GM with broad discretion and a playoff ready roster with a losing team bereft of young talent that needed to be scrapped while the GM dealt with significant personnel and financial constraints.

You can still argue Babcock did a better job but just the surface Ws and Ls evaluation isn't very meaningful.

[gutz]

Thank you AHF your exactly right. He is comparing two TOTALLY different situations that Babcock and BK inherited. One inherited a playoff ready roster and the other inherited a worthless franchise left behind by Babcock and is now still in the process of trying to get it back together. Using Wins and Losses as a comparison to judge both GM's is just flat out stupid.

[Guest Walter]

I wouldn't trust Babcock with rebuilding (see how poorly he did, trading for SAR, Big Dogg, and the draft, oh the draft, albeit with a weak draft's help - DerMarr J.).

Similarly, I wouldn't trust BK with (anything now, but at the time) building upon an existing contender as I don't believe he couldn't keep his ego out of it and would have to [censored] it up somehow.

If BK could build a winner then I think he could maintain it if only out of loyalty to himself, but he's proven in Atlanta, he's not the guy to build you a winner.

W