fantasy baseball

[AHF]

Quote:

---

AHF is screwing up the competitive balance of the baseball league by fleecing MW24.

He's getting Clemens for a waiver wire quality pitcher.

---

Waiver wire!?!?

C'mon that is ridiculous.

I made the offer for Clemens some time ago so I have no idea why it was accepted now. However, you are going way over the top in your slamming of Bush.

He is comparable to Andy Pettite who you traded Clemens for along with Trot Nixon earlier in the year.

Bush was a top 4 guy in WHIP last year and was predicted as a breakout pitcher for this season. He will end up the year with good numbers and pitch for several weeks longer than Clemens from here on out. Obviously, I would rather have Clemens which is why I made the offer among 4-5 others a while back.

[AHF]

Here are the ESPN rankings for this season:

Quote:

---

G GS W L SV IP H BB K K/BB WHIP ERA

Tier 1

1 Johan Santana MIN 34 34 19 6 0 232 180 48 246 5.18 0.98 2.77

Tier 2

2 Chris Carpenter STL 32 32 16 7 0 220 193 44 186 4.21 1.08 3.08

3 Roy Oswalt HOU 34 34 17 9 0 228 228 44 176 4.02 1.19 3.05

4 Carlos Zambrano CHC 33 33 17 7 0 216 166 103 205 1.99 1.25 3.27

5 Jake Peavy SD 32 32 13 11 0 205 182 60 217 3.61 1.18 3.52

6 Roy Halladay TOR 32 32 18 7 0 222 207 37 146 3.90 1.10 3.15

7 Brandon Webb ARZ 34 34 17 11 0 235 221 65 178 2.74 1.22 3.28

8 John Lackey LAA 33 33 15 10 0 213 206 70 185 2.65 1.30 3.60

The Rest

9 Jeremy Bonderman DET 34 34 14 11 0 212 205 61 198 3.25 1.25 4.03

10 John Smoltz ATL 32 32 17 7 0 206 194 48 180 3.77 1.17 3.35

11 Aaron Harang CIN 34 34 14 11 0 217 226 55 206 3.75 1.29 3.94

12 Jason Schmidt LAD 31 31 15 10 0 204 179 82 187 2.28 1.27 3.73

13 Daisuke Matsuzaka BOS 27 27 16 5 0 191 160 46 192 4.17 1.08 3.06

14 Ben Sheets MIL 25 25 14 8 0 164 156 20 172 8.57 1.07 3.53

15 Felix Hernandez SEA 32 32 17 10 0 200 181 53 189 3.57 1.17 3.43

16 Matt Cain SF 33 33 15 10 0 197 164 78 188 2.41 1.23 3.70

17 Brett Myers PHI 32 32 14 8 0 199 195 64 182 2.83 1.30 4.10

18 C.C. Sabathia CLE 31 31 17 11 0 206 194 56 176 3.11 1.22 3.56

19 Dan Haren OAK 33 32 16 9 0 209 208 47 161 3.43 1.22 3.88

20 Erik Bedard BAL 30 30 15 10 0 200 188 61 184 3.02 1.24 3.66

21 Scott Kazmir TB 29 29 14 11 0 181 152 67 201 3.00 1.21 3.43

22 Cole Hamels PHI 30 35 14 12 0 181 163 66 210 3.20 1.26 4.22

23 Justin Verlander DET 31 31 14 12 0 195 178 68 189 2.78 1.26 3.92

24 Chris Young SD 31 31 14 9 0 198 178 62 197 3.18 1.21 3.32

25 Barry Zito SF 34 34 15 11 0 222 206 94 170 1.81 1.35 3.93

26 Curt Schilling BOS 31 26 14 8 0 180 200 30 163 5.51 1.27 4.29

27 Randy Johnson ARZ 27 27 13 9 0 174 165 49 159 3.27 1.23 4.34

28 Dontrelle Willis FLA 34 34 14 11 0 222 226 73 159 2.18 1.34 3.58

29 Mike Mussina NYY 32 32 14 8 0 195 200 43 161 3.75 1.25 4.03

30 Jered Weaver LAA 29 29 13 8 0 185 180 48 148 3.08 1.23 3.89

31 Rich Harden OAK 25 25 13 5 0 144 107 55 137 2.49 1.13 3.01

32 Jonathan Papelbon BOS 28 28 13 10 0 171 169 40 149 3.73 1.22 3.89

33 Ervin Santana LAA 34 34 17 9 0 214 199 68 157 2.31 1.25 4.13

34 Dave Bush MIL 33 32 16 9 0 202 191 35 162 4.63 1.12 3.25

35 Adam Wainwright STL 40 18 6 6 13 110 104 38 94 2.47 1.29 3.74

36 A.J. Burnett TOR 27 27 14 10 0 173 166 54 156 2.86 1.27 3.80

37 Javier Vazquez CHW 33 32 14 12 0 205 209 54 181 3.33 1.28 4.39

38 Chris Capuano MIL 32 32 12 12 0 198 202 58 160 2.75 1.31 4.16

39 Bronson Arroyo CIN 35 33 13 10 0 222 212 59 171 2.91 1.22 3.71

40 Kelvim Escobar LAA 27 27 13 9 0 170 161 49 145 2.93 1.24 3.48

41 Josh Beckett BOS 32 32 15 10 0 197 179 69 166 2.40 1.25 4.42

42 Roger Clemens FA 18 18 7 5 0 112 86 32 102 3.23 1.05 2.30

43 Rich Hill CHC 30 30 11 10 0 160 139 70 144 2.05 1.31 4.62

44 Freddy Garcia PHI 33 33 16 9 0 218 222 53 145 2.72 1.26 4.26

45 Andy Pettitte NYY 35 35 16 8 0 213 214 64 178 2.80 1.30 3.70

46 Derek Lowe LAD 35 35 16 11 0 214 223 58 126 2.17 1.31 3.89

47 Brad Penny LAD 31 31 13 10 0 179 189 50 136 2.74 1.33 4.05

48 Chien-Ming Wang NYY 34 34 15 11 0 219 225 55 81 1.46 1.28 3.79

49 Scott Olsen FLA 34 34 14 11 0 189 172 81 177 2.19 1.33 4.03

50 Greg Maddux SD 34 34 15 14 0 214 224 36 127 3.50 1.21 4.18

---

[gsuteke]

Pitchers Opp: 5/12 O-Rank Rank IP W SV K ERA WHIP

Dave Bush

(Mil - SP) @NYM 241 780 44.0 3 0 34 5.73 1.36

the 780th ranked player in yahoo's fantasy baseball for Clemens. yeah, that's over the top allright.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

Pitchers Opp: 5/12 O-Rank Rank IP W SV K ERA WHIP

Dave Bush

(Mil - SP) @NYM 241 780 44.0 3 0 34 5.73 1.36

the 780th ranked player in yahoo's fantasy baseball for Clemens. yeah, that's over the top allright.

---

Rafael Furcal is the 704th ranked player in yahoo's fantasy baseball. What is your point?

Make an argument against it but make it a real one.

Your argument is akin to labelling Pujols the 157th best player in the league.

Just because someone has started slow doesn't make their value equal to their current ranking - especially with a much better track record.

[gsuteke]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Pitchers Opp: 5/12 O-Rank Rank IP W SV K ERA WHIP

Dave Bush

(Mil - SP) @NYM 241 780 44.0 3 0 34 5.73 1.36

the 780th ranked player in yahoo's fantasy baseball for Clemens. yeah, that's over the top allright.

---

Rafael Furcal is the 704th ranked player in yahoo's fantasy baseball. What is your point?

Make an argument against it but make it a real one.

Your argument is akin to labelling Pujols the 157th best player in the league.

Just because someone has started slow doesn't make their value equal to their current ranking - especially with a much better track record.

---

people don't understand that a roto league is just that, a roto league. the stats tell all in a roto league.

when Bush toes the rubber in yahoo fantasy baseball he's the 780th ranked player.

you cannot dispute numbers in a roto league.

lucky for you AHF a quarter of the league is dead already, including MW24's team. he's had empty roster spots for weeks.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Pitchers Opp: 5/12 O-Rank Rank IP W SV K ERA WHIP

Dave Bush

(Mil - SP) @NYM 241 780 44.0 3 0 34 5.73 1.36

the 780th ranked player in yahoo's fantasy baseball for Clemens. yeah, that's over the top allright.

---

Rafael Furcal is the 704th ranked player in yahoo's fantasy baseball. What is your point?

Make an argument against it but make it a real one.

Your argument is akin to labelling Pujols the 157th best player in the league.

Just because someone has started slow doesn't make their value equal to their current ranking - especially with a much better track record.

---

people don't understand that a roto league is just that, a roto league. the stats tell all in a roto league.

when Bush toes the rubber in yahoo fantasy baseball he's the 780th ranked player.

you cannot dispute numbers in a roto league.

lucky for you AHF a quarter of the league is dead already, including MW24's team. he's had empty roster spots for weeks.

---

Let me get this straight.

You legitimately don't think Pujols is a top 150 player this year because th enumbers are everything, right?

[gsuteke]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Pitchers Opp: 5/12 O-Rank Rank IP W SV K ERA WHIP

Dave Bush

(Mil - SP) @NYM 241 780 44.0 3 0 34 5.73 1.36

the 780th ranked player in yahoo's fantasy baseball for Clemens. yeah, that's over the top allright.

---

Rafael Furcal is the 704th ranked player in yahoo's fantasy baseball. What is your point?

Make an argument against it but make it a real one.

Your argument is akin to labelling Pujols the 157th best player in the league.

Just because someone has started slow doesn't make their value equal to their current ranking - especially with a much better track record.

---

people don't understand that a roto league is just that, a roto league. the stats tell all in a roto league.

when Bush toes the rubber in yahoo fantasy baseball he's the 780th ranked player.

you cannot dispute numbers in a roto league.

lucky for you AHF a quarter of the league is dead already, including MW24's team. he's had empty roster spots for weeks.

---

Let me get this straight.

You legitimately don't think Pujols is a top 150 player this year because th enumbers are everything, right?

---

you aren't the GM of the St Louis Cardinals. you're running a roto style baseball league.

NUMBERS ARE EVERYTHING!

in Roto sometimes you have to trade a better player for the stat category you are lacking.

Clemens owns Bush across the board.

and btw comparing Pujols to Bush is a diversionary tactic.

[AHF]

You just killed your entire argument.

Evaluating players for the rest of the season (i.e., ranking their value) you don't think Pujols ranks in the top 150.

Wow. Just wow.

If I could find 10 guys who agreed with that line of thinking I would win every fantasy league I ever participated in by just looking at guys who are currently under acheiving and trading guys who are currently overacheiving for them.

[gsuteke]

Quote:

---

You just killed your entire argument.

Evaluating players for the rest of the season (i.e., ranking their value) you don't think Pujols ranks in the top 150.

Wow. Just wow. That is inane.

---

stop with the switcheroo. you didn't trade Pujols (who is obviously a top 20 player) for Clemens.

YOU TRADED BUSH FOR HIM!

nice CYA job AHF.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

You just killed your entire argument.

Evaluating players for the rest of the season (i.e., ranking their value) you don't think Pujols ranks in the top 150.

Wow. Just wow. That is inane.

---

stop with the switcheroo. you didn't trade Pujols (who is obviously a top 20 player) for Clemens.

YOU TRADED BUSH FOR HIM!

nice CYA job AHF.

---

The same rationale that says Pujols is dramatically better than 157th in the league is the one that says Bush is dramatically better than 700+th in the league.

Both guys will finish the season MUCH higher than they are currently ranked.

Look at Bush's WHIP the last three years:

1.23

1.25

1.14

You really think he won't improve?

* * *

If you really believe that Bush is only what his numbers say right now I'll make this bet with you.

If Bush finishes the season ranked worse (i.e., higher) than 700, I donate $40 to the Squawk.

If Bush finishes the season ranked better (i.e., lower) than 700, you donate $20 to the Squawk.

The ONLY reason you wouldn't do this bet is because you realize Bush is better than his current numbers show - which is the only realistic assessment of his season. Especially with 2:1 donations!

[gsuteke]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

You just killed your entire argument.

Evaluating players for the rest of the season (i.e., ranking their value) you don't think Pujols ranks in the top 150.

Wow. Just wow. That is inane.

---

stop with the switcheroo. you didn't trade Pujols (who is obviously a top 20 player) for Clemens.

YOU TRADED BUSH FOR HIM!

nice CYA job AHF.

---

The same rationale that says Pujols is dramatically better than 157th in the league is the one that says Bush is dramatically better than 700+th in the league.

Both guys will finish the season MUCH higher than they are currently ranked.

Look at Bush's WHIP the last three years:

1.23

1.25

1.14

You really think he won't improve?

* * *

If you really believe that Bush is only what his numbers say right now I'll make this bet with you.

If Bush finishes the season ranked worse (i.e., higher) than 700, I donate $40 to the Squawk.

If Bush finishes the season ranked better (i.e., lower) than 700, you donate $20 to the Squawk.

The ONLY reason you wouldn't do this bet is because you realize Bush is better than his current numbers show - which is the only realistic assessment of his season. Especially with 2:1 donations!

---

OK AHF, since Bush is so good why the hell are you trading him in a straight up deal for another player?

[gsuteke]

nice work peeps.

let's wipe the slate clean.

[TroyMcClure]

Sorry, AHF. Fleecing a bad team is ok. Fleecing a dead team isn't. You have more , I don't know what to say... honor than that. At least you would appear to by your words.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

Sorry, AHF. Fleecing a bad team is ok. Fleecing a dead team isn't. You have more , I don't know what to say... honor than that. At least you would appear to by your words.

---

I voted to veto the trade after the fuss.

I made the trade offer a while back before Clemens had signed with anyone.

It was a fair offer when it was made because Clemens was still a ways away from returning.

What made the trade unbalanced is that Clemens is now set to return so the greater value from games played has diminished since I made the offer.

I didn't have a problem with someone protesting the trade.

As I told gsuteke, the problem I had is that he was trying to make it out like I offered crap for Clemens.

What I offered is the equivalent of offering Sexson for Ortiz if Ortiz was out for a month with an injury.

That is the reason the experts at ESPN ranked Clemens lower than Bush. Both are good guys but Bush had more value in their eyes (and in the eyes of most experts) because Clemens was out for a while.

Why else would gsuteke have traded Clemens and Nixon for Pettite?

Again, the problem is that Clemens was set to return at the time the trade was accepted. I have no idea why he waited that long to accept the trade.

I do think Bush is a good player and that you will see him in the top 10 in WHIP by the end of the year and vastly improved in ranking.

So does gsuteke or he would have taken the bet!

(Also, I made offers to 4 other teams in the league who had players that I thought were of lesser current value to their teams that the guys I was offering. Obviously, I wouldn't make a trade offer where I didn't prefer what was coming in to what was going out, though.)

[VarsitySlacker]

teke's problem is that he looks almost solely at either the "rank" or "o-rank" category and judges players from there.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

teke's problem is that he looks almost solely at either the "rank" or "o-rank" category and judges players from there.

---

I don't think he really does that. He was just using that to exaggerate the difference between Clemens and Bush.

[Popeye]

Stop whining, Clemens wont be that good anyways. You really think he will dominate from the get go???

[gsuteke]

Quote:

---

Stop whining, Clemens wont be that good anyways. You really think he will dominate from the get go???

---

fill your roster positions. when you don't you comprimise the overall integrity of the league.

[AHF]

Here are the numbers over the last month:

Clemens

rank 146th overall

wins 2

strikeouts 15

ERA 3.12

WHIP 1.04

Bush

rank 117th overall

wins 3

strikeouts 22

ERA 3.67

WHIP 1.22

Somehow those ESPN rankings with Bush higher than Clemens don't seem quite as ridiculous. Incidently, the K/9IP is even worse for Clemens since he has pitched more innings over that time.

[gsuteke]

what reasonable person would have predicted the Rocket to get shelled the way he did at first? what reasonable person would have expected the Yankees to lose so many games around the time he came back up until recently?

certainly not you, that's why you accepted that trade.