BK's biggest Mistake.

[Diesel]

What was BK's biggest mistake as GM...

[Packfill]

Far and away it was taking Marvin over Paul/Williams. Great point guards are hard to come by and BK missed on two.

I still like the JJ trade but this team would be so much better off if BK had simply selected Deng, Paul and Roye instead of trading for JJ and drafting Chill, Marvin and Sheldon.

[Iman]

Interesting, I like Marvin but would have to pick that one in this case. Other mistakes to consider(most of which I'd put ahead of taking Marvin):

drafting Diaw instead of Josh Howard

dumping JT (w Hendu) vs dumping him later or keeping him

dumping Nazr

not resigning Pryz

signing all the centers he's signed (Drobniak, sp?, Edwards, Lo)

taking Ivey instead of Duhon

not getting Jack, Marcus Williams, etc

not firing Woody

signing Speedy

I'd say not getting into the draft to get a point is his biggest mistake.

[exodus]

Quote:

---

Interesting, I like Marvin but would have to pick that one in this case. Other mistakes to consider(most of which I'd put ahead of taking Marvin):

drafting Diaw instead of Josh Howard

dumping JT (w Hendu) vs dumping him later or keeping him

dumping Nazr

not resigning Pryz

signing all the centers he's signed (Drobniak, sp?, Edwards, Lo)

taking Ivey instead of Duhon

not getting Jack, Marcus Williams, etc

not firing Woody

signing Speedy

I'd say not getting into the draft to get a point is his biggest mistake.

---

And lets not forget the fact that he declined to trade Al at the deadline for Nene.

I voted the Marvin pick. In the end it doesn't really matter. What matters is that BK has made so many mistakes that he doesn't deserve to keep his job.

[AtLaS]

Shelden would have been a "decent" pick had BK not selected Marvin. We'd be an up and coming team, probably 4th or 5th best in the east with Paul/Deron. We'd also have about an extra 8 million in cap space, because we would have Speedy or AJ. Players would be wanting to signed/traded here, and we probably could have gotten Chandler/Ben Wallace this offseason.

Marvin by far.

EDIT: I'm surprised the Smith pick is even an option.

[Spiral]

Probably passing on CP3 and Deron for Marvin was his biggest crime, although to this point Shelden has been a flop so it's not too far behind. You could even go so far as to say picking Salim over Monta Ellis, but the second round is a crap shoot anyway so I'd give him a pass there.

He's screwed up in several smaller instances, I could go on further if I researched it, but these are some of the top of my head...

-Giving up a draft pick for Drobnjak

-Signing and then having to trade the worthless Jon Edwards

-Trading JT and a draft pick for the regressing Antoine Walker

[lunar]

trading JT wasn't a mistake at all. Jason wanted out of Atlanta and had even signed a offer sheet with Utah but billy matched.

antonie ends up going to boston for a pick.

becuase anyone could match a great restricted free agent, Billy bites the bullet and agrees to trade with phoenix for Joe Johnson

the draft pick ended up going to phoenix for Joe Johnson.

because billy matched, utah needed a point guard and then traded up to three to get deron williams.

circle of life...

[macdaddy]

So who answered the Shelden pick???

I think we could have traded Al for Arroyo/Darko and made a big difference. But that was the owners not BK I think.

[Yeti]

I voted for the Shelden pick. In hindsight, Paul would have been better than Marvin but at that time all the experts were selecting Marvin as #1 or #2. --- For the Shelden pick, NOBODY else would have made that pick. (I happen to think Roy would have been a good fit.) Shelden appeared to be undersized for an NBA PF or C. Just a complete brain fart by Billy. But some of his "trades" were pretty bad too. (Actually, maybe ZaZa was the only decent trade.)

[AHF]

Quote:

---

So who answered the Shelden pick???

---

I did. The problem for me is that the poll is a little bit vague (and I don't blame Diesel for this - it may even be intentional). For me I have two different answers if I look back with 20/20 hindsight or if I take the picks as they were made at the time.

Without the benefit of hindsight, the Shelden pick is the least defensible move, IMO.

With the benefit of hindsight, the Marvin pick is the worst.

However, I think that if we are using hindsight you are really asking as to which mistake most impacts the team which may be different from which move was the least rationale or least defensible. Taking Jay Williams second in the draft is very defensible even if the picks is worthless three years down the line. In fact, you can look back with 20/20 hindsight and say that taking Kwame Brown #1 over #31 pick Gilbert Arenas was the biggest mistake Michael Jordan made as GM. However, I don't think that kind of analysis is very useful in judging decisions since we have the benefit of a lot of information that Jordan didn't at the time.

To me, the decision to guarantee Shelden the #5 pick and to shut down workouts with other players was indefensible and a huge mistake on its fact. Marvin was considered by many experts as the guy most likely to be a star out of this draft. Both Paul and Deron have exceeded the expectations of most experts, while Marvin has shown promise but not what was expected yet. I can understand a valid rationale behind taking the Marvin pick. I cannot understand not trading down for Shelden for someone who wanted Roy or Foye or taking someone like Roy who would have had greater trade value than Shelden's expected value to this team.

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

---

In fact, you can look back with 20/20 hindsight and say that taking Kwame Brown #1 over #31 pick Gilbert Arenas was the biggest mistake Michael Jordan made as GM.

---

While Kwame didn't work out, I think it still worked out for them as they signed Arenas outright.

I agree about SW and MW's decisions although I don't find the MW's pick very defensible if you watched enough of him at UNC. I still go back and forth depending upon the polling definitions.

W

[AtLaS]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

So who answered the Shelden pick???

---

I did. The problem for me is that the poll is a little bit vague (and I don't blame Diesel for this - it may even be intentional). For me I have two different answers if I look back with 20/20 hindsight or if I take the picks as they were made at the time.

Without the benefit of hindsight, the Shelden pick is the least defensible move, IMO.

With the benefit of hindsight, the Marvin pick is the worst.

However, I think that if we are using hindsight you are really asking as to which mistake most impacts the team which may be different from which move was the least rationale or least defensible. Taking Jay Williams second in the draft is very defensible even if the picks is worthless three years down the line. In fact, you can look back with 20/20 hindsight and say that taking Kwame Brown #1 over #31 pick Gilbert Arenas was the biggest mistake Michael Jordan made as GM. However, I don't think that kind of analysis is very useful in judging decisions since we have the benefit of a lot of information that Jordan didn't at the time.

To me, the decision to guarantee Shelden the #5 pick and to shut down workouts with other players was indefensible and a huge mistake on its fact. Marvin was considered by many experts as the guy most likely to be a star out of this draft. Both Paul and Deron have exceeded the expectations of most experts, while Marvin has shown promise but not what was expected yet. I can understand a valid rationale behind taking the Marvin pick. I cannot understand not trading down for Shelden for someone who wanted Roy or Foye or taking someone like Roy who would have had greater trade value than Shelden's expected value to this team.

---

Although I agree many people had him as the #1 prospect, I'd still say the Marvin pick was worse. There were just so many things against him, he played with 4 1st round picks, his HS team had a losing record, he came into our workout out of shape and an inch shorter than reported, it was widely known that he had no post up game and got his shot blocked often. He also said he didn't watch the NBA on TV, and he wasn't as athletic as reported either. And when you consider how promising Smith and Chill's 2nd half of their rookie season's were and our DIRE need of a PG, it just wasn't smart.

Also Chris Paul had his best workout here.

[TexasPete]

I agree with you 100% AHF for the exact reasons that you stated. And the gap between Roy and Shelden is just too large to ignore. Marvin has been playing well and is only 20...Shelden is an old rookie and Roy is just abusing him.

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

Without the benefit of hindsight, the Shelden pick is the least defensible move, IMO.

With the benefit of hindsight, the Marvin pick is the worst.

---

I disagree when you say that you need Hindsight to prove that picking Marvin was not the right thing to do.

We had 5 maybe 6 Sfs at the time we picked Marvin.

Let's see:

Al, Diaw, Chillz, Smoove, Donta...

At the time, our biggest need as PG and C.

Deron, Paul and even Felton represented three of the best PGs that the draft had seen in years. In fact, no other big time Pgs were seen coming out of the college ranks for years. It was known that there would be a Hakeem Warrick or a Rudy Gay. Hell, we joked about Gay being BK's next pick.

The point is that it didn't take hindsight to see that Marvin was not needed.

as far as Shelden goes,

With the departure of Al and the need to have a defensive stopper, Shelden was the right pick.

[AtLaS]

Quote:

---

Al, Diaw, Chillz, Smoove, Donta...

At the time, our biggest need as PG and C.

---

Isn't it funny that we've had the same 2 needs for the past 3 years?

Quote:

---

With the departure of Al and the need to have a defensive stopper, Shelden was the right pick.

---

You're just saying this to defend what you said on draft night. You can't honestly believe that Shelden is still the right pick, that's just being stubborn. If we had Chris Paul, I would support the pick a lot more, but the fact is we don't.

[SmooveTheFuture]

We could have a team right now of

Paul/Deron Joe Deng/Iggy Smith Bum/Zaza Bench is Brandon Roy, Monta Ellis and Paul Milsap. Instead we are stuck with Shelden Williams who is a retard and Marvin Williams who will always be haunted by the ghosts of Deron and Paul. I want someone to explain to me how and why does Billy Knight still have a job in the NBA.

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

---

as far as Shelden goes,

With the departure of Al and the need to have a defensive stopper, Shelden was the right pick.

---

We needed a Pg, an at least defensive center, and talent. That's what we needed. SW was none of those. Roy at least was a talent and he can play effective Pg for us FAR more than SW can play center.

Also, Al hadn't been traded then and there were many significantly better FAs avalalble at the time of the draft pick. Nene, Wilcox, Gooden. We still need a defensive stopper. It all turns out that SW was a monumental draft mistake. Diesel, it's time for you to come around and quick or else you look like "KB part II: this time it's personal"

W

[Diesel]

It's like this.

If Shelden played 34 minutes and sucked I would agree with you.

However, Shelden's hasn't played over 5 minutes in the last 7 games. In the beginning of the season, there was a stretch that he was doing what we had brought him here to do (on a rookie's level).

Shelden was the right pick for us.

I still don't see how having Roy would have helped us in our frontcourt defense. Moreover, if we get a coach who knows how to coach in here, I think Shelden's value will increase exponentially...

[Diesel]

No History changer.

Knowing that Al was not staying, we needed a PG, A Pf, and a C.

I have plenty of arguments by YOU that I can bring up Where YOU State that Smoove is not a PF.. So stop being a hypocrite!

[AHF]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Without the benefit of hindsight, the Shelden pick is the least defensible move, IMO.

With the benefit of hindsight, the Marvin pick is the worst.

---

I disagree when you say that you need Hindsight to prove that picking Marvin was not the right thing to do.

---

I think there are valid arguments both ways on this when viewing a clearly more highly rated prospect at a position with unproven talent on your roster against a lower rated, non-big man prospect at a position of need at the roster. We needed a star more than anything else at that point in time. We had no proven assets other than Al Harrington. Josh Smith had shown signs of good things but hadn't proven anything or demonstrated any kind of consistency - that would start the second half of the next season.

I can certainly understand the contrary argument that Marvin hadn't proven much in college and that even if Paul's upside wasn't as high, he was a proven winner at a very important position.

It is with hindsight, though, that the fell spectrum of talent scouts now see that the assumption that Marvin was the higher ceiling prospect was wrong and that the experts underrated the talent of both Paul and Deron.

(Also, let me add that there are always people who feel both ways on picks like this and the fact that you and some others felt that Marvin was overrated doesn't change the fact that the Hawks' scouts and most others disagreed. Hence, even though you felt Deron's potential was the greatest, the consensus view and that of the Hawks' talent scouts placed Marvin's potential higher. Working from what was known then, you need to assume that Marvin was the higher ceiling prospect compared to either PG and evaluate from that assumption rather than using hindsight to evaluate that in light of what has been shown in the NBA. In other words, the post-hac evaluation based on what was known at the time should be the same whether Paul turns into the next Isiah Thomas or the next Brevin Knight and whether Marvin turns into the next Oscar Robertson or Tim Thomas.)